Booker T

January 17, 2003

Yet everyone complains that Booker is a new guy needing to be pushed. I agree with you, but he's no new star. Austin can draw and can carry a company on his back.

- Just Call Me Dan

In my opinion, Booker T is the most overrated wrestler in the entire WWE. Dan brings up a good point, but my problem with a Booker mega-push isn't his age...it's his ring work. Are his promos with Goldust entertaining and a highlight of RAW is BORE? Yeah. Is he charismatic? Yeah. Does he get the crowd going? Yeah. But for God's sake, people, WATCH his ring work sometime!

It amazes me how the ring work of the "hosses" gets studied and picked apart for errors, but everybody lets Booker slide. Well, I study everyone, and Booker is not a very good worker. He is good on offense coming off of a hot tag...that's IT. Watch him sometime when he is not going through all of his kick variations in a 30-second span. When he is on defense, he needs to be lead by the hand by superior workers, and quite often he botches spots. This is a guy who has been in the business for over 10 years.

I remember recently on RAW (I believe it was Booker/Goldust vs. Jericho/Christian), Chris Jericho was trying to whisper a spot to Booker, but Booker just couldn't understand it. So Jericho took him to the corner and started to stomp. He tried whispering the spot to Booker on the irish whip, Booker once again didn't understand. Some awkward criss-cross action followed, with Booker completely lost. Finally, Jericho had to apply an equally awkward Walls of Jericho and forget whatever sequence he had planned. I was expecting Scott Keith and other RAW ranters to comment on this embarassing sequence, but there was not a word on it.

The Jericho incident was the worst, but I see Booker doing stuff like that on a weekly basis. He hasn't had a ****+ match since the Best of 7 with Benoit, and that was 5 years ago!

When I think of young up-and-comers who need a mega-push, I think of guys like Edge and Rob Van Dam. I don't think of Booker, who is an extremely limited veteran, and who only won the WCW title 5 times because the company was being hit with a race discrimination lawsuit and they needed to say, "Hey, look, we have a black world champion and a black commissioner." He's NEVER been able to cut it in the big leagues.

That's my two cents...SUCKA!

January 17, 2003

I'd like to write out a long post dissecting your arguments and forming counter-arguments to each and every salient point, but it's early in the morning (for me) and I haven't had my cup of coffee yet, so I shall just say: I disagree.

January 17, 2003

I'd like to write out a long post dissecting your arguments and forming counter-arguments to each and every salient point, but it's early in the morning (for me) and I haven't had my cup of coffee yet, so I shall just say: I disagree.

Me too . It might be that Im from Houston and Im a little biased . I personally think The Book is a great wrestler .

January 17, 2003

I wouldn't go as far to say he's the most Overrated. CoughRVDCough'

Booker T is a very Decent Wrestler, what he lacks in his Wrestling, he makes up with his Character. Which makes him Entertaining and that's is what Wrestling is all about. Always has been, always will be.

January 17, 2003

...but my problem with a Booker mega-push isn't his age...it's his ring work. Are his promos with Goldust entertaining and a highlight of RAW is BORE? Yeah. Is he charismatic? Yeah. Does he get the crowd going? Yeah. But for God's sake, people, WATCH his ring work sometime!

It amazes me how the ring work of the "hosses" gets studied and picked apart for errors, but everybody lets Booker slide. Well, I study everyone, and Booker is not a very good worker. He is good on offense coming off of a hot tag...that's IT. Watch him sometime when he is not going through all of his kick variations in a 30-second span. When he is on defense, he needs to be lead by the hand by superior workers, and quite often he botches spots.

Ok. Now we'll examine a post of yours from the Nathan Jones thread:

Personally, I don't give a damn how good his workrate is. The gimmick looks entertaining. WWE has enough workers, they need some interesting characters. Of course, the workrate freaks are gonna bitch, but screw them. Not everything can be about workrate.

Anyone else find this funny?

Booker needs a push right now in the worst way. If nothing else, at least get the guy in the title picture. He's over, he's charismatic, he's a much better worker than the guys in that position right now, and a few clean wins over the right people would launch the guy into the stratosphere. Same with RVD.

January 17, 2003

I don't think Booker is the best worker, and I'm not too big of a fan of his matches. However I--like most people, I think--want Booker pushed because 1) he's over, and 2) he's entertaining.

A serious Booker push would be good for business, and that's all that matters in the end, really.

January 17, 2003

I find it funny how an Undertaker fan is commenting on other people's in ring work...

January 17, 2003

When I think of young up-and-comers who need a mega-push, I think of guys like Edge and Rob Van Dam.

This is where you made your mistake. I like Edge, but he isn't the most popular guy on these boards and is not at the level of say the Guerreros. RVD is just a horrid worker. Although on RAW that puts him ahead of the entire main event crew who are almost wheelchair bound.

January 17, 2003

I didn't notice that spot either but I'm sure it was just some miscommunication- it happens all the time.

Booker had a terrfic match with Kurt Angle on Smackdown where Angle won the WCW Title. You have to remember that Booker T has had only two singles matches on PPV this year.

I thought he was great in the tag match at Armageddon and while I agree he's probably detroiated a little as a worker- that does mean he should be getting shit on like he is.

January 17, 2003

If RVD is the future, point a ****+, hell, a ***1/2+ match he has had EVER with some decent analysis. None of the Jerry Lynn ECW feud or Guerrero WEEEEEEEEE series crap either.

Booker is a smart and diverse worker who can be carried ot great things. Kind of like the modern day Sting. Motivated and very game.

Tim

January 17, 2003

Booker has exactly the same problem as Edge - shitty offense. His multiple kicks are boring as hell. The guy's entertaining, but without the workers that Edge works with and, IMO, a lack of any really stellar selling that Edge sometimes displays(I heavily stress sometimes) Booker is really way too bland as a worker. Both Booker's and RVD's matches bore me, they epitomise the WWE formula problem.

LooseCannon25 · January 17, 2003

I disagree with the statement that Booker T is the most overrated star. You say that he's not a good worker and can't put on good matches which is bogus. Book can put on a very good match, he's got a pretty good moveset, is very agile, and sells well. Then you say that guys like Edge and RVD are the future and while i like both guys.....you can't call Booker a bad worker and then call RVD a good worker because RVD is pretty damn bad with psychology and equally as bad with selling. He's a glorified spot machine basically. Edge's moveset is below average i would say. The guy's finisher for most matches is a freakin spear for crying out loud. A spear from Rhyno would be believable to kncok someone out of their boots and finish them off, but cmon.....Edge's spear is weak looking, he looks like he makes noooo contact whatsoever and he's way to small to have that a s a legitimate finisher. I think all 3 guys are the future cause they all have charisma and draw the fans into their matches. But, if there was ONE of those 3 who's the total package right now it would be Booker T in my mind.

January 17, 2003

who only won the WCW title 5 times because the company was being hit with a race discrimination lawsuit and they needed to say, "Hey, look, we have a black world champion and a black commissioner." He's NEVER been able to cut it in the big leagues.

That's my two cents...SUCKA!

You're wrong.

He lost his first title to Kevin Nash and then won it back just to build interest to Fall Brawl.

Booker won his fourth WCW title on the last Nitro which I think was because Vince badly wanted to bring him in.

He won his fifth WCW title in the WWF so that wasn't due to the lawsuit either.

So to say all of his five WCW title reigns were because of a racial discrimination is an incorrect and an insult to Booker. Have you ever thought it could've because he was the #1 face in WCW?

LooseCannon25 · January 17, 2003

Exactly Bob Barron, To say that he won the title all those times just because he was black is an ignorant and silly statement to make. It's not like the guy only won it once, and its not like he wasn't at the top of the card. Booker T was the top guy in WCW for the last few years and was waaaaaaay over with the crowd. It's usually a good idea to make your top star champion!

January 17, 2003

Overrated? Absolutely. Don't get me wrong, Booker is a solid in-ring guy with good mic skills, good charisma and is entertaining but gets constantly praised at the level of Benoit, Guerrero, Angle etc. which isn't right. His spots always seem a little off and sloppy, as do his kicks.

Anybody who saw his RAW match with Eddy before he and Benoit jumped ship can attest to the overrated-ness of Booker. The guy blew at least three spots in a four minute match with Eddy, threw sloppy kicks and in general couldn't keep pace with Eddy.

LooseCannon25 · January 17, 2003

Damn thinking about Booker makes me think about a great talent that the WWE recently released and i feel it was a big mistake. Yes, i'm talking about Ron "The Truth" Killings.....they have similiar kicks, but Killings just seems to freakin explode when he does his axe and scissor kicks.

January 17, 2003

Booker has exactly the same problem as Edge - shitty offense.

That's exactly what I noticed in most of his matches. Book can have good comebacks during a match, but he has pretty horride offense.

January 17, 2003

Booker has probably been one of my favorite wrestlers for many years. I like the guy because he makes a match fun to watch. He interacts well the crowd and really gets the people into the match. Although his offense is pretty limited, he at least seems to know when the best time to pull it off. Not everyone in the WWE have that in ring charisma working for them. Some people with GREAT wrestling ability can have some of the most boring matches. Booker looks like he's having fun in the ring and I feel he deserves all the credit he gets, if not more.

January 17, 2003

I love Booker T, I always have ever since his debut in WCW way back in the early 90's with his brother Stevie Ray in Harlem Heat. I love his work, and I usually love his matches, but I'll say this...

...at times his matches can be great (Benoit/Booker T) and at other times, his matches can make my brain hurt (Buff/Booker T). I look at Booker T who is someone who usually only has great matches with a great worker. He can take part in gold, and he can take part in crap.

I don't know if anyone remembers this, but there was a match on a WCW program that had Booker T vs. Buff Bagwell. It was far worse than their RAW match in every way possible. I would go as far to say that it was the men's equivilent of the Stratus/Gaeda travesty. It was quite mess, for all involved in the match, one of the worst matches I've ever seen.

In short, when he's got some material to work with, have it a good opponent or some sort of motivation, he can be on fire and really put out, but when he has a bad opponent, he can really take part in a stinker.

I say he's more overrated than most fans make him out to be, but I do feel he should Main Event one day, perhaps by the end of this year.

January 17, 2003

Booker is the best wrestler on Raw, as far as I'm concerned:

I do pay attention to his matches, and they impress me. He's great on offense, moves very quickly (especially for his size and age) and knows when to pull out spots and when to defer to his opponents. He can sell, pace, and time matches as well as anyone on Raw right now. I can't see where the hell people are finding fault in his offense. It's high impact, gracefull, and innovative without being too cute like RVD tries to be more often than not. He's got strinkes, slams, roll ups, and flying moves, all of which look credible and effective. How many wrestlers in the WWE can you say that about? Watching a Regal/Storm match these days, you'd be hard pressed to find much wrestling at all. Most of their matches are composed of stomping and chinlocks.

His match with Dustin vs. JerichoChristian was my pick for best Raw match of the year. Really basic, yet really affective things like building up the face in peril spot for a long time, teasing comebacks and then kicking off double teams made for a really exciting match, and I think Booker works really well in that formula, as well as others.

I never noticed Booker being "lead" by anyone. If he couldn't hear what Jericho was saying, he couldn't hear. It's not as if Jericho couldn't have just fed him a spot or something to keep the match moving.

As for not having a ****+ match since Benoit, I can't think of anyone on Raw who's had a ****+ match on TV this year, and I would probably say the same for Smackdown! I'm not trying to dress up Booker as a God of Work or one of the best all time, but right now on WWE Raw you won't find a better worker. He's better than a great deal of people on Smackdown! as well. I really don't get what people who claim to "pay attention to the work" see in many of the Guererros matches, or Jericho's matches, or Billy Kidman's matches and such. They're far from bad, but none of them are doing anything on a higher levle than Booker is.

January 17, 2003

I agree that Booker doesn't look the same in the ring anymore, but I attribute that to having to work the "WWE style." I mean look at Lance Storm. When was the last time he had a really great match? One that comes to my mind is SummerSlam 2001, where he carried Edge to what was then the match of his career. But recently... even in his match with Booker T, they both looked horribly boring.

Maybe it's a motivation problem? What does Booker T really have to be motivated about?

January 17, 2003

I love booker but he's definitely not a good worker. I agree with the sting comparison. The point is, he doesn't need to be. He's consistently over. On raw there is no-one, except maybe jericho he could ever have a good match with. Why they haven't had a a run of singles matches on ppv yet I will never know. (well maybe I do, but that's getting old.) The WWE will never put him on smackdown with all their actual GOOD workers, because they would be forced to give him a title run and for whatever reason, refuse to. Fuck them, fuck them all. XXX

January 17, 2003

I can't see where the hell people are finding fault in his offense. It's high impact, gracefull, and innovative without being too cute like RVD tries to be more often than not. He's got strinkes, slams, roll ups, and flying moves, all of which look credible and effective. How many wrestlers in the WWE can you say that about? Watching a Regal/Storm match these days, you'd be hard pressed to find much wrestling at all. Most of their matches are composed of stomping and chinlocks.

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand what Booker matches you are watching to get this assessment of his offense. His primary offense consists of very similar looking kicks, which happen to be very slowly executed and tedious in the extreme. Slams? That would be the spinebuster which everyone dogs on these days because its used by half the roster? His punches are nothing special, although his missile dropkick is nice. The scissors kick does nothing for me, again its too slow. Interesting thing about the chinlock is that when Booker was a heel he was handing out chinlocks all over the place. Has quite a lot of chinlocks in his face matches also. Again, not to be disparaging, but I just don't see anything of note in Booker's offense. Maybe its that he's on the same show as Storm, RVD and Triple H that makes his kicks look faster than they are.

January 17, 2003

That's because he picked up on the chinlock from the Benoit match as an intermediary-type move that works because it wears down the guy after a series of moves don't fall.

January 17, 2003

Like I said, I recognize Booker's entertainment value. But they guy can't work. He blows spots all the time, and he's sloppy. I take the Bret Hart approach to what a good "worker" is: they make their stuff look believable and realistic. Booker is just sloppy and needs to be lead by the hand in his matches.

Say what you want about Taker, but:

a) His stuff isn't sloppy.

b) He leads in the ring. You want a classic example, see Hell in the Cell 1998 where he carried a semi-unconcious Mick Foley through the remainder of the match after the bump through the Cell. Mick Foley and Shawn Michaels have both called Taker their most "professional" experience.

c) He wrestles the big man style, so it's not fair to compare him to smaller wrestlers. Different style.

January 17, 2003

Like I said, I recognize Booker's entertainment value. But they guy can't work. He blows spots all the time, and he's sloppy. I take the Bret Hart approach to what a good "worker" is: they make their stuff look believable and realistic. Booker is just sloppy and needs to be lead by the hand in his matches.

Say what you want about Taker, but:

a) His stuff isn't sloppy.

b) He leads in the ring. You want a classic example, see Hell in the Cell 1998 where he carried a semi-unconcious Mick Foley through the remainder of the match after the bump through the Cell. Mick Foley and Shawn Michaels have both called Taker their most "professional" experience.

c) He wrestles the big man style, so it's not fair to compare him to smaller wrestlers. Different style.

I agree, I've enjoyed "most" of his matches throughout his career, with exceptions here and there, just like most everyone else has exceptions. His work with HHH in their last two bouts have been just horrible though, on PPV and on RAW.

January 17, 2003

Booker is just sloppy and needs to be lead by the hand in his matches.

That's like describing damn near everybody on the RAW roster, if not all of them.

a) His stuff isn't sloppy.

So I was dreaming when he's damn near blown the Last Ride before? Or the chokelsams during the Judgment Day match last year? Or the Backlash match, in general? Oh, and let's not forget the abortion that was the King of the Ring, too.

b) He leads in the ring. You want a classic example, see Hell in the Cell 1998 where he carried a semi-unconcious Mick Foley through the remainder of the match after the bump through the Cell. Mick Foley and Shawn Michaels have both called Taker their most "professional" experience.

Considering that both them faced Taker back when he used to actually be motivated and not a completely broken down piece of garbage, I wouldn't be surprised. Ask Brock Lesnar about that after the crapfest that was Unforgiven and I doubt you'll get the same answer.

c) He wrestles the big man style, so it's not fair to compare him to smaller wrestlers. Different style.

And Booker wrestles a different style then Taker does, so why are you comparing them? Talk about hypocritical.

January 17, 2003

So I was dreaming when he's damn near blown the Last Ride before?

You mean when Rock and Jeff Hardy couldn't get up for the move.

Or the chokelsams during the Judgment Day match last year?

You do know that wrestling is a work, right? You do know that the VICTIM is supposed to get up for the chokeslam and if he doesn't that's called SANDBAGGING? Hogan sandbagged Taker.

Oh, and let's not forget the abortion that was the King of the Ring, too.

Yes, HHH was a cripple, so let's blame Mark.

January 17, 2003

Booker is a good worker. Not great by any means, and I don't think Ricky Chosyu was arguing that he was. But he is indeed a good worker.

My opinion changes daily on whether or not he's a better worker than Jericho, but one or the other is the best thing going on RAW. Booker has a more crisp moveset; Jericho's a better seller. Booker is connecting with the audience more these days, but Jericho is a better role player. Booker wrestles a heavyweight style better than Jericho, but Jericho is far more versatile.

Of course, maybe Goldust is better than both of them. That's certainly an arguable point, and one several people won't "get" because they write off his ability because of his comedy-based character.

January 17, 2003

I personally wish Booker T would TOTALLY drop most of the rest moves from his matches, that's the main reason I get on him sometimes.

Booker T

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