Guest wolverine Report post Posted February 1, 2003 Christ, did you read the thread? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffin Surfer Report post Posted February 1, 2003 Dave Meltzer, you know... the guy who has been writing the Wrestling Observer Newsletter for over 20 years and who I believe came up with the star rating system along with Jim Cornette, gave 2/24/02 Muto vs. Kawada ****1/2 Well, what the hell does that make Kawada/Albright 95, ten stars? That's how I look at star ratings, if one match is clearly better than the other, than they shouldn't get the same rating. It defeats the whole purpose of a system designed to tell which matches are better than the other, sure him and Cornette came up with the system as a way to measure the work rate of young talents, but that's not what the system is used for anymore. If Meltzer does truly believe that Kawada/Muto is as good as Kawada/Albright, than that shows you how trust worthy his opinion is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EL DANDY~! 0 Report post Posted February 1, 2003 I did read the thread, but then, if you could help me out again, tell me what my $60 could be put towards that's a little bit better than that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Mighty Damaramu Report post Posted February 1, 2003 Well I'm just saying. It's fine to ask for a second opinion but if you like it and some guy thought it was a ** horrible match then fuck em. You liked it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted February 1, 2003 And if you want people to take your opinion seriously, you should come up with a good reason for liking these types of horrible matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Mighty Damaramu Report post Posted February 1, 2003 Why does someone have to justify what they like? People have specific tastes. They can like a match. Hell they could come up with reasons like "I like non-finishes" or whatever as a reason to like it but you can't discount them as having taste in shitty matches because it's all there opinion. That's all I'm saying. Everyone has different tastes and just because you guys don't like a match doesn't mean that someone else can't enjoy it. Hell I tend to agree with you guys a lot but I get annoyed when people tell other people that they have shitty tastes and aren't a wrestling fan just because they like a certain match. And before you get all up in arms I'm not talking about just this thread or this board I'm talking about the IWC in general. Thank you....I will be leaving now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted February 2, 2003 Because you'll come off as a goof if you have this pattern of liking crap and pimping it to those of us who know better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Doyo Report post Posted February 2, 2003 Listen, some of you people take yourselve's way too seriously. It is possible for people to like matches that you don't. People on here were saying that nobody liked the Muto vs. Kawada or Tenryu vs. Kojima matches so I pointed out some examples of sources that did. I can't think of any awards that are voted on by a more knowledgable source than the Observer. PWI? RSPW? Haha, please. Maybe some publication out of Japan, I don't really know. Comparing it to Newsweek is unfair, as that is mainstream and the Observer is still pretty much underground. Everyone is going to have different opinions on things, that is true. All I know is that I'm going to trust sources like Brandon Thruston and the Observer readers before I'll rely on a couple of people from the smartmarks msg board who think they know it all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jubuki Report post Posted February 2, 2003 Well, no one here is going to stop you from accepting mediocrity as greatness, are they? People either know how to analyze things well, or they don't. A lot of people don't. And that includes being able to tell who has some thinking skills and who doesn't. That's why you surround yourself with people who know what they're talking about, rather than accepting popular opinion as gospel. If you don't get that, you never will. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ace309 Report post Posted February 2, 2003 Sure, there are people who like shitty wrestling. There are also people who think bologna is objectively better than filet mignon. Around here, we call them "dumbasses." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NoSelfWorth Report post Posted February 2, 2003 Different people will like different matches. Just because they don't agree with your view of a match, it doesn't make their view any less credible than yours. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted February 2, 2003 jdw is an Observer reader. Go ask him what he thought about Mutoh/Kawada. Like Ricky said, just because you happen to read it, doesn't certify you as being knowledgeable. Hell, I first started reading it when I was in 10th grade, and I'm sure there's plenty of other people out there who are in similar situations. They read to learn, but you need to get tons of viewing experience under your belt as well. Believe me, it's not as easy as it sounds - I still laugh at the ridiculously stupid ballots I did when I didn't have a clue about wrestling back then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jubuki Report post Posted February 2, 2003 Of course it can make it less credible. Credibility comes from reliability, comes from backing up your reasoning, comes from proving your claims. Look up the definition of the word, for fuck's sake. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NoSelfWorth Report post Posted February 2, 2003 Glad to see you were able to back yourself up without resorting to swearing(!). If someone likes a match, who are you to tell them they are wrong, and must not enjoy that match ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted February 2, 2003 I'm someone who knows the difference between good wrestling and bad wrestling, that's who. But if you want to continue to live in your little fantasy world where Mutoh matches are the spice of life, be my guest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jubuki Report post Posted February 2, 2003 I back myself up all the time without swearing. Not that you'd know, because you trust buffoons to tell you what good wrestling is, but I do manage the feat quite a lot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EL DANDY~! 0 Report post Posted February 2, 2003 Wolvy, you talk as if you think Mutoh has never had a good match. He's had many good ones, I think... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Doyo Report post Posted February 2, 2003 Hahaha! My only point was that there were people who are generally considered knowledgable about the sport who like those matches; so maybe the person who started the thread and others may like them as well. Yes, there are intelligent people who did not like those matches as well, and many others who have not seen them probably would not like them. It is worked so people are going to have different ideas about what is good or not. It is not like gymnastics or figure skating where the judges can rate the people on the difficulty of their moves and whatnot. There is really no way to "prove" how good a match is. Amazing Red's moves are far more acrobatic than Flair's, but not many are going to consider Red better than Flair in his prime. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted February 2, 2003 Yeah. Thing is, that was over a decade ago, and we're talking about this alleged "Best of 2002" now aren't we? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EL DANDY~! 0 Report post Posted February 2, 2003 Truth be told, I've seen a lot of his 2001 stuff, and while it's not as crisp or as awesome as his older stuff, I still enjoyed it. And seriously, I wouldn't think that a Kawada/Mutoh match would be THAT bad... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted February 2, 2003 Truth be told, it sucks. As does his 2001 work. Maybe you should go watch some 1993 Kobashi and quit bugging us for a while. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EL DANDY~! 0 Report post Posted February 2, 2003 OK then...maybe I will...but seriously Wolvy, his match with Tenryu on 6/8/01 was one of the better matches I've seen. It's MY opinion. If you don't like it, that's your opinion. Don't be saying everything you say is right, while everything I say is wrong... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted February 2, 2003 No, my opinion is that you need to see more wrestling. But there I go repeating myself again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffin Surfer Report post Posted February 2, 2003 I really don't understand the reasoning of some people. If I loved a match, and somebody told me that it was shit because there are matches out there that blows it away. I think that I would seek out those matches, rather than endlessly trying to justify why I think the match rules. That's why I'm into puro, I heard there was better out there, so I looked it up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EL DANDY~! 0 Report post Posted February 2, 2003 Sorry that I haven't watched as much wrestling as you have. Excuse me for not thinking that any of my matches that I liked aren't up to your standards. Fuckin ay man... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted February 2, 2003 You ask a question, you're going to get straight answers from some of us. Deal with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EL DANDY~! 0 Report post Posted February 2, 2003 Look, through MY wrestling watching experience, I haven't seen as much puro as you have. In fact, the only puro I do have is the Best of Japan 2001 set, 10/10/96, 12/16/96, Owen/Lyger BOSJ 91, 6/3/94, 6/8/90, and the clipped BOSJ 95 match between Benoit and Ohtani. I have not seen any of Kobashi's matches from 93, nor have I seen most of the great junior action and such. I used the Best of Japan set as something to get me started on it. As little as I've seen, I'm trying to see more. I loved a lot of the matches on there that you would have hated just because you've seen more matches that were better than them. Your wrestling experience and mine are very different, and so are our opinions. So there's my comment about that. And I am dealing with the fact that I'm getting straight answers from you, thank you very much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffin Surfer Report post Posted February 2, 2003 I did read the thread, but then, if you could help me out again, tell me what my $60 could be put towards that's a little bit better than that. To answer your question, I would put the 60 bucks towards some All Japan 93 television. You can get them cheap at High Spots for ten bucks a peice, or you can go all out on quailty and buy from Lynch. No matter what tape you get, your bound to get a ****+ match somewhere. For instance, on April-July you can get Taue/Kawada, Misawa/Kobashi, Misawa/Gordy, Misawa/Hansen, Kobashi/Kawada, Kawada/Akiyama, all damn good matches on one tape. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Doyo Report post Posted February 2, 2003 Wolverine, you are kindly recommended to remove thy head from within thy ass. Dave Meltzer and my grandma probably watched thousands of matches before you were even born. All this guy did was post about some tapes that suppose to have some of the best matches from Japan for 2002. If you or anyone else has such a big problem then compile your own tape with your best of Japan 2002 and send it out to El Dandy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted February 2, 2003 Well, good for you. Since you've seen so much, care to give us some opinions on matches such as Tamura vs. Kohsaka, or perhaps the Dream Rush main event? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites