Michael Jordan

[Guest DrTom]

The game is still the same as it was in 1987 when Jordan broke loose with NBA's Marketing.

That's patently untrue. I could actually sit down and watch an NBA game in 1987, and enjoy it. I just shake my head a lot at the game today, and end up turning it off in disgust after a few minutes. It's not Jordan's fault, though; it's Stern's for sacrificing a team game to promote individual superstars, which ushered in the ME generation and their shoddy fundamentals. It's been a downward spiral from there.

[Guest Crucifixio Jones]

Yeah, this thread is saying that MJ's what's wrong with the NBA...NO, Tracy McGrady is what's wrong with the NBA. Kobe Bryant is what's wrong with the NBA. Tracy McGrady can come up with all the excuses that he likes but the reason he left Toronto is to become an individual superstar. He can score 40 points a night all he wishes in Orlando but he'll never get a ring. And you know what? He doesn't care. HIS stats look good and HIS bankbook is looking A-okay, so you know what? Fuck a ring. He'll just do some more Adidas commercials while you whine and question his integrity and love for the game.

 

I think Kobe has the same attitude and the only reason he even has three rings this early in his career is because of a 7-foot phenom with 10+ years of NBA experience is roaming the paint drawing double-teams allowing Kobe to pretty much score at will. On another team, Kobe would be just like T-Mac: all offense and no rings.

[Guest Lethargic]

Yeah, this thread is saying that MJ's what's wrong with the NBA...NO, Tracy McGrady is what's wrong with the NBA. Kobe Bryant is what's wrong with the NBA. Tracy McGrady can come up with all the excuses that he likes but the reason he left Toronto is to become an individual superstar. He can score 40 points a night all he wishes in Orlando but he'll never get a ring. And you know what? He doesn't care. HIS stats look good and HIS bankbook is looking A-okay, so you know what? Fuck a ring. He'll just do some more Adidas commercials while you whine and question his integrity and love for the game.

 

I think Kobe has the same attitude and the only reason he even has three rings this early in his career is because of a 7-foot phenom with 10+ years of NBA experience is roaming the paint drawing double-teams allowing Kobe to pretty much score at will. On another team, Kobe would be just like T-Mac: all offense and no rings.

That's true. But the reason they play like that is because they grew up watching Jordan play like that. A one man team going around dropping 40 and 50 points on people. Just clear out, give me the ball. So yeah in a way it's Jordan's fault because everybody wants to be like him. The problem is that they're not good enough to be like him.

[Guest The Electrifyer]

But Jordan's 40 or 50 points mostly got his team wins and championships.

[Guest Still Fly]

Kobe and T-Mac are not whats wrong with the game. I mean these two guys go out and play hard every night. The reason T-Mac left the Raptors is because he wanted out of Canada and his personal feuds with Vince Carter. If you remember T-mac wasnt even going to to be the star of the Magic because that was reserved for Grant Hill. Whats wrong with the NBA I believe is the salary system and the free agent system. Teams dont have enough time to gel over the years because one player on the team is lured by another. another is how the NBA markets its players. Im sorry, but the fans wan to see superstars every night and David Stern is giving the fans what they want. Its still a team game, but you have to admit the evolution of the players since the 80s into more athlectic and stronge players have kinda taken away from that from the team aspect.

 

Just my 2 cents

[Guest DrTom]

but you have to admit the evolution of the players since the 80s into more athlectic and stronge players have kinda taken away from that from the team aspect.

It's taken away from the team aspect, sure, but it's also taken away from basketball fundamentals. Part of that is the league's fault; when I played basketball in junior high, as soon as you took a second step without dribbling the ball, you got whistled for traveling. Now guys take five and six steps without dribbling, all because the dunk they finish with allows them to show their individual skills. Players are more concerned with getting face time on Sports Center than they are about playing solid team basketball and winning championships.

 

A perfect example of the quest for individual glory over fundamental basketball: Robert Horry's memorable three-pointer for the Lakers in last year's playoffs. Horry, a power forward was loitering uselessly at the three-point line instead of going for the rebound, which is his fucking job. Watch the replays of that play, especially the one from behind the basket: he's NOWHERE NEAR the rebound, and he's a *power forward*. Shaq is fighting for the board (his job), and so is Kobe (as a small forward, not really his job). The play ends up with a 1-in-1000 bounce to Horry, who hits the three and acts like he made an excellent play. Rubbish, I say. He was looking to get on TV instead of doing his goddamn job on the court, and he happened to get lucky because he was standing completely out of position with his thumb up his ass.

 

Shit like that is why I dislike the NBA.

[Guest Still Fly]

Dr.Tom, while you make valid points, you cant compare your junoir high basketball to todays pro ball. I agree with the traveling (its absurd now) but personally i think the players doing the cool dunks add to the game for me. its all letting the players have fun in doing what there doing. I dont think players go for individual glory that much. yeah there show boating and all that crap but saying Robert Horry is a glory hog is absurd and outrageous. Robert Horry was trying to win the game and beening in a crowd with Webber, Shaq, Kobe and Divac would not have helped the Lakers win the game. i believe he did the right thing by being by the three point line, because if you have followed Robert Horry's carrer he has a tendency to make big shots at the right moment. I bet you not a lot of people were too upset that Horry did not do his job if you know what I mean.

 

But if you want fudamentals simply watch the NCAA.

[Guest DrTom]

Dr.Tom, while you make valid points, you cant compare your junoir high basketball to todays pro ball.

Because the rules of the game haven't changed: you must dribble the ball at least every other step. It wouldn't bother me so much if traveling weren't so selectively enforced. A guy trying to bring the ball out of his own end of the court will get whistled for it if he can't get around a defender correctly. But a guy who catches a pass thirty feet from the basket, takes five steps without dribbling, and finishes with a dunk isn't whistled at all. The game has shifted focus from being about fundamentals and team play to superstars jockeying for highlight time on Sports Center.

 

its all letting the players have fun in doing what there doing.

No, it's marketing for the fans. David Stern knew that the 1980s, with the rise in popularity of cable and satellite TV, would usher in the era of the league being on TV all the time. So he changed the focus of the game over time, and now the people who often watch the NBA were raised on the bastardized "Showtime" product that appeared in the mid-1980s.

 

yeah there show boating and all that crap but saying Robert Horry is a glory hog is absurd and outrageous.

It's neither. His job is to be under the basket fighting for a rebound. Watch the replay: he's doing NOTHING at the three-point line. He's not even making an effort to be involved in the play at all. He was waiting for a 1-in-1000 bounce and he happened to get it. How nice for him.

 

Robert Horry was trying to win the game and beening in a crowd with Webber, Shaq, Kobe and Divac would not have helped the Lakers win the game.

Well, if you add him to that scenario, it's 3-on-2 in favor of the Lakers, which gives them the better odds to pull down the rebound. Which is what Horry is supposed to be doing in that situation. Kobe's the small forward, so if either of them should have been standing at the line waiting for a lucky bounce, it should have been Bryant.

 

if you have followed Robert Horry's carrer he has a tendency to make big shots at the right moment.

I know about his tendency, and if I didn't, the repeated verbal blowjobs he got from everyone on ESPN would have hammered it home. It's fine that the guy's a clutch shooter, but that doesn't excuse him abandoning his position, IMO.

 

I bet you not a lot of people were too upset that Horry did not do his job if you know what I mean.

Sure, because people see the highlight, and go, "Oooh, what a clutch shot! OMG HE R0X0RZ!!1!!" I guess I like to do more than a surface analysis of things, and look beyond what programs like Sports Center spoon-feed to me.

 

But if you want fudamentals simply watch the NCAA.

I do, a lot more than I watch the NBA. The NCAA game isn't perfect, but it's a lot better than the version where the players get paid above the table.

[Guest Harry Hood]

What would the backlash have been like if Horry missed that shot?

[Guest Vern Gagne]

I have a question. Why the hell can't anyone make a jump shot anymore. Just watch an old NBA game on Classic, and guys can shoot ahole lot better than they can today.

[Guest Choken One]

Better defenders? Nah...

[Guest imajackoff?]

I have a question. Why the hell can't anyone make a jump shot anymore. Just watch an old NBA game on Classic, and guys can shoot ahole lot better than they can today.

If you think it's bad now, wait in a couple of years when more of the these kids come to the league straight out of HS. With less time to hone the fundamentals, its all about slashing to the hoop or shooting the 3 (in which a lower percentage is acceptable). The midrange jumper is hardly ever in the arsenal of a stud HS player. Just look at Lebron Ames. (He doesnt have a J)

[Guest DrTom]

What would the backlash have been like if Horry missed that shot?

Had he missed it, I'm sure it would have been pointed out that he was loitering like a mendicant at the three-point line instead of battling for the rebound. I doubt he would have been blacklisted from the league or anything like that, but costing the defending champs their season because you missed a me-me-me shot instead of doing your job wouldn't sit well with a lot of folks.

[Guest DrTom]

I have a question. Why the hell can't anyone make a jump shot anymore.

Because, Vern, why bother with shooting a jumper when you can run to the basket and slam the ball down instead? Jumpers don't make Sports Center unless they win games, and jump-shot artists tend not to get multimillion dollar shoe contracts very often.

 

I read this story about eight years ago, I think in SI, though it could have been another mag. A college coach and his son (Sorry, I don't recall the names) did a shooting clinic for high school players in a large city. The son, who was a college player, demonstrated shooting technique while his father explained the fundamentals. The guy made something like 26 out of 30 from fourteen feet, and 17 of 20 from beyond the three-point line. After the exhibition and explanations were over, the coach and son fielded questions. Guess what the first question for the son was...

 

"Can you dunk?"

 

I rest my case.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Better defenders? Nah...

Sorry don't buy that argument. It seems like alot of players throw up off balanced shots that have real chance of going in.

[Guest ant_7000]

Back in the day, they had bad shooting as well. Even some analysts confirmed that bad shooting has been around a while, its just that players are missing open shots is what kills me. But IMO that you need a all around game because shooting jumpers all the time isn't the most reliable way.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

I don't think most people would argue with your last point ant. The problem is the players today are too dependent on dunking, and slashing to the basket.

[Guest Human Fly]

That's why it kills me that they went to zone defense and get shocked every time some team puts up 65 points.

 

When you have a league that's built on slashing and going to the basket, so much so that a whole generation of players care mostly about going to the basket, and then you put in the zone defense which makes teams take a lot more jump shots. No wonder European players are so popular right now.

 

About European players: it kills me when ever anyone tries to explain that 1st, and 2nd year Euro players are better then players coming out of college because they've played pro ball before. No it's not. They are fundamentally sound and can actually shoot worth a lick.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

So everyone hates Jordan because TNT was on his nuts at the All Star Game? That's not his fault. Everyone gets blowjobs from the commentators. Yao Ming was getting his when the Lakers played the Rockets, and Iverson was getting his when he won the MVP a couple of years ago. I don't like Vince Carter and I haven't liked him for a couple of years now because he has demonstarted that he's a pussy. Sure he can dunk, but he can't be the heir to Jordan's legacy because he has no heart. Jordan is a competitor and has a greater will to win than Vince Carter.

 

Vince Carter left a damn game with a headache. He was missing in action last year when the Raptors were trying to make a run at the playoffs. He has missed alot of time this season. In the second OT of the All-Star game (where a bunch of coldplayers came off the bench for the East), Vince Carter was there surrendering 10 points to Kevin Garnett. Instead of guarding KG, Vince was running at him and clapping his hands. How abot putting a hand in the guy's face, pussy? This is your All-Star, not mine. Jordan broke his foot during the 1985-86 season and missed 64 games. During the rest of his Chicago Bulls career, he only missed 7 games out of 848 due to injury, sickness or suspension. Oh, let's not forget Game 5 of the 1997 Finals. Jordan played dehydrated and with flu-like sypmtons and still hit the game winning three-pointer. Next time Vince Carter gets a headache, he should get an aspirin and shut the fuck up.

 

Maybe I'm being hard on the guy, but he's a pussy. The fact that he's a pussy was only further imbedded into my brain when I saw Jordan starting in the All-Star game. Didn't Vince Carter say that he owed it to the fans to start? What was his reasoning for reversing the stance that he took before? Maybe he realized that it was Jordan's last All-Star game.

 

Last All-Star game. He's had three of those, right? Yes and no. Did anyone know that he was going to retire the first time that he did? No. Did anyone know that he was going to retire the second time that he did? People suspected it, but no one knew for sure.

 

Retirement #1

 

He played in the 1992 NBA Finals, then played in the Olympics all summer long and then played in the 1993 Finals. That's alot of basketball. While he was doing all of this, people were giving him shit about gambling. Then after all of that, his father was murdered. He decided to hang up his shoes.

 

Retirement #2

 

Jordan had just won three championships and his body was breaking down but the bottom line is, Jordan's second retirement happened over money.

 

"The Bulls knew I wouldn't play for anyone but Phil. After the 1997 championship, they knew they had to sign Phil before they went after me. But they put a clause in Phil's contract that said if I didn't sign by a certain date, Phil's deal was void."

 

Jerry Reinsdorf was trying to break up the Bulls team that had won three consecutive championships. That's why Jordan retired the scond time.

 

This game was different because Jordan really did get introduced for the very last time at an All-Star game. He's come back and is playing for the last time. He has harvested everything that he can from his old body, and now he's leaving. All of the spectacular moments that he delivered are going to soon be a memory. You can hate Jordan now, but you'll miss him when he's gone.