Guest ant_7000 Report post Posted February 12, 2003 I understand you guys saying Wilt Chamberlain was greatest. But, I never seen him play. I know he had great stats and all. I feel you can't compare Jordan to Chamberlain or any other great Centers because they play two different positions. Well, I might have a Chicago Biased but I still say Jordan is the best player/Guard/Ambassador i've ever seen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ripper Report post Posted February 12, 2003 First, if this weren't his last season in the league,, Jordan shouldn't have even been on the team...not with Ron Artest, Kenyon Martin, Rip Hamilton, and Jerry Stackhouse sitting at home. But seeing as this was it, got the spot. Of course with David Robinson retiring at the years end, it is kinda messed up that he gets no love. My big problem is everyone keeps calling him the greatest of all time like there is no argument to it. Wilt Chamberlin, dude averaged more than 50 pts in a season, led the league in assist, scoring, blocks, and rebounds in a season, and did it consistantly for season after season. Kareem Abdul Jabbar won 6 NBA championships with 2 different teams, is first all time scoring, second all time in blocks, second all time in rebounding. Magic Johnson won 5 NBA championships in his 12 year career, second alltime in assist, and if not for the Pistons and Celtics would have easily won 7-8 championships. Oscar Robinson averaged over 30 pts, 12 rebounds, and 12 assist for a season....FOR THE ENTIRE FREAKIN SEASON.... Jordan is the greatest player in the 90's...maybe even the greatest off guard of all times. But hands down the greatest player...come-on now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ant_7000 Report post Posted February 12, 2003 But you guys got to look at level of competition back when Wilt was playing. He was basically what Shaq is today nobody couldn't stop him the average height 6'7 for center and he was 7'1 240 lbs basically same size as Duncan. I mean if Wilt could play in today's NBA he wouldn't be averaging triple double for a year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Johnson1620 Report post Posted February 12, 2003 Whats with the Jordan hating on this board? I think some of you guys are just mad because he broke your favorite teams hearts. Im a MJ fan and watch alot of his games here in Chicago, and he is the greatest ball player I ever seen. MJ tribute at halftime was excessive but it was well deserved so I wasn't mad at that. I wish every all-star game will have a roster spot for a great career player that is retiring once the season is over. I don't have A team. I know the truth...Wilt Chamberlin was better than Jordan. Have you bumped your head man. Wilt WAS the best until Jordan came along. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lethargic Report post Posted February 12, 2003 But you guys got to look at level of competition back when Wilt was playing. He was basically what Shaq is today nobody couldn't stop him the average height 6'7 for center and he was 7'1 240 lbs basically same size as Duncan. I mean if Wilt could play in today's NBA he wouldn't be averaging triple double for a year. Everybody tries the old "look at his competition" argument. The same can be said about Jordan. Wilt at least had Bill Russell to compete against. Who was on Jordan's level when he played? Craig Ehlo? John Starks? Harold Miner? And how much further was the league as a whole diluted just by the amount of teams in the league during his run? There were only 10 teams in the league when Wilt won his first title. There might not have been many people the same size as Wilt but as a whole, the league was a whole lot more competitive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Redhawk Report post Posted February 12, 2003 Jordan went up against Joe Dumars, Mitch Richmond, Clyde Drexler, Reggie Miller, Hersey Hawkins and Michael Cooper (a damn good defender; the Ron Artest of his day). And those were the shooting guards. If the other team put a SF on him, than that would include Dominique Wilkins, Larry Bird, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted February 12, 2003 Those guys were already past their primes when Jordan reached his (1991-1993). So that arguement is meaningless. It's a Fact...Wilt Changed the game for the Good...Jordan will soon be exposed for the fraud that he is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Johnson1620 Report post Posted February 12, 2003 It's a Fact...Wilt Changed the game for the Good...Jordan will soon be exposed for the fraud that he is. What do you mean "fraud"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted February 12, 2003 The Media loves to Protray that MJ was this great guy that everyone loves and that Michael loved the game and doesn't care about the spotlight. Jordan isn't a good guy, as a matter of fact, he's worse then Pete Rose. MJ gets away with it...and even worse...NBA Knew it was happening at the time and all they did was tell him "Go away for a year or two". We already know Jordan was a cheating wife abuser and slowly we will finally get the truth about Jordan's compulsive gambling that drove him into serious trouble with the FBI. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted February 12, 2003 In case anyone cares My All Time-NBA Team PG-Magic Johnson. A winner, a leader, looked to get his teammates involved, truly a PG. SG-Micheal Jordan. Best clutch player in NBA history. Top 3 of all time. C-Wilt Chamberlin. An offensive force. PF-Bill Russell. Sue me. Russell's undersized for a Center so he moves to PF. The greatest winner ever, and one of the best defenders. SF-Larry Bird. Never liked Bird, big Lakers fan in the 80's. But you can't deny he was a great player. A leader, and involved the rest of the team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest imajackoff? Report post Posted February 12, 2003 The Media loves to Protray that MJ was this great guy that everyone loves and that Michael loved the game and doesn't care about the spotlight. Jordan isn't a good guy, as a matter of fact, he's worse then Pete Rose. MJ gets away with it...and even worse...NBA Knew it was happening at the time and all they did was tell him "Go away for a year or two". We already know Jordan was a cheating wife abuser and slowly we will finally get the truth about Jordan's compulsive gambling that drove him into serious trouble with the FBI. Good points. In this ESPN age of idolatry, the truth takes a back seat to a good story. Nowadays, Muhammad Ali is pretty much treated like he's a deity even though his treatment of the women in his life was despicable. I understand you guys saying Wilt Chamberlain was greatest. But, I never seen him play. I know he had great stats and all. I feel you can't compare Jordan to Chamberlain or any other great Centers because they play two different positions. Well, I might have a Chicago Biased but I still say Jordan is the best player/Guard/Ambassador i've ever seen. I never saw Chamberlain play either, but I have read about him, watched tapes of him and heard people's accounts of him. Heres an excerpt from www.hoophall.com: Because Chamberlain's skills were so far advanced than his competitors, several rule changes were enacted to harness his awesome ability. These rules changed included widening the lane, instituting offensive goaltending and revising rules governing inbounding the ball and shooting free throws. He was so dominant they freakin' changed the rules. Im not trying to say that Jordan is a bum. He's clearly the best player of the 90's, but his manufactured "image" coupled with his ability to sell shoes and panties propelling him to the level of undeniable greatest ever sickens me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Redhawk Report post Posted February 12, 2003 What do Jordan's actions off the court have to do with his talent on the court? The argument was whether or not MJ is the best basketball player ever, not if he was the greatest Christian ever. It looks like you let something personal affect your perception of reality. The fact is, ON THE BASKETBALL COURT, MJ is/was the best ever. And if you want to get into personal lives, Wilt Chamberlain wasn't exactly Jesus himself. Neither was Magic, Larry Bird. Dr. J, or any one. All of those guys had fucked up personal lives. But on the court, MJ is the best. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted February 12, 2003 First off...Wilt was 10 times the player M.J ever will be. Jordan didn't change the make up of the game, all he did was bring in Disrespectful thugs and it is pretty much open knowledge that Jordon would gamble with teammates on the game... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Redhawk Report post Posted February 12, 2003 How is that "open knowledge?" If it were he'd be banned. Where did you even hear that from? And you're saying Jordan didn't change the game? Pat Riley constructed his Knicks teams to be rough, tough, and to contain MJ. And you look around the league, at how they guard Kobe, T-Mac and those guys. Jordan started that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AlwaysPissedOff Report post Posted February 12, 2003 Well, when someone writes a book on how to guard you, I'd say that's changing the game somewhat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Harry Hood Report post Posted February 12, 2003 So was Bob Gibson the best pitcher of all tiem cos they changed the rules for him? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ant_7000 Report post Posted February 13, 2003 Remember the "Jordan Rules" the Bad Boy Pistons use to do to Mike, they tried to get in his head and rough him up. What does MJ personal off the court issues have to do with his on the court skills? He's a womanizer so what, so was Wilt who claimed to fucked over 2,000 women. But anyway, who would you want take the last second shot of the game MJ andWilt? My money is on MJ because you could easily foul Wilt since he's a poor free throw shooter and he doesn't play on the preimeter. I mean Wilt was great and dominate and all but he only won 2 championships and he suppose to be unstopable and MJ won 6 titles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted February 13, 2003 Wilt never had a supporting cast like Jordan...The closest example of Wilt is Shaq withouth Kobe... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DrTom Report post Posted February 13, 2003 What kind of a "supporting cast" do you need when you score 100 points in a night, and average 50 over a season? Four average players plus someone like that should be enough to roll most any team. The Jordan vs. Chamberlain debate is a tough one, and I don't think the answer is beyond debate at all. I'd have to go with Jordan, since I think he was a more complete player, won more championships, and was absolute money in the clutch. Wilt was amazing, to be sure, but I think he falls just short in the race. Interestingly, no one brings up Bill Russell in the greatest player debates. I'm not saying his name should be at the head of the list, but the man DOES own more championship rings than he can wear on both hands. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted February 13, 2003 Yeah but know WHY he isn't mentioned often? He wasn't a sexy name...I compare him to Hakeem...They won championships and were driving forces for thier teams...But weren't a sexy name and thus never stood out... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Redhawk Report post Posted February 13, 2003 Wilt never had a supporting cast like Jordan...The closest example of Wilt is Shaq withouth Kobe... Um, Wilt played on a team that had BOTH Jerry West and Elgin Baylor. In Philly he had a hell of a team around him too. Still, Wilt's team lost in the Finals to Boston once, when Russell and those guys were on their last legs, then to New York when Willis Reed wasn't even playing. MJ never lost in the Finals, and once he got that first ring, never lost in the playoffs except for his first comeback half-season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted February 13, 2003 What kind of a "supporting cast" do you need when you score 100 points in a night, and average 50 over a season? Four average players plus someone like that should be enough to roll most any team. A lot of that has to do with the style of basketball played at the time. Teams NEVER held the ball. They just ran up the court and shot. When Wilt scored 100, the other team scored somewhere around 140 or so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alfdogg Report post Posted February 13, 2003 I just wanted to point out that ALL of the coaches vote on the reserves. If Isiah had all of the say, Ron Artest would have been on the team, too. And also: Artest Jalen Rose Ricky Davis Rip Hamilton Jerry Stackhouse, all would have made it ahead of K-Mart, IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ripper Report post Posted February 14, 2003 Forget Wilt for a second, I would love to see someone REALLY make a case for Jordan that would make him such a shoe in as greatest over Magic and Kareem. Magic with 5 Championships, and Kareem with 6.... We know that they are right there with him in that department. Plus the league was 1000 times better in the 80's than it was in the 90's. I mean teams that couldn't win a championship in the 80's like the Suns, Blazers, Hawks, Bucks would wipe the floor with the teams in the late 90's. I still believe that the 80's was the greatest era in basketball, and Magic and Karrem dominated it. Jordan hit his prime when all of the other great players (Isaiah, Bird, Mchale, Magic) started retiring and the great teams were breaking up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shanghai Kid Report post Posted February 14, 2003 Wilt vs Jordan: They are hard to compare, two different posistions, two different era's. The 2 main reasons that I put MJ over Wilt is because Wilt's scoring average went down big time in the Playoffs. He didn't rise to the occassion. Meanwhile, MJ thrived on the Playoffs and loved playing against the best competition. The other reason, is that nobody has ever had the will to win like MJ. Don't forget, last year MJ had the Wizards on the path for a top 4 seed in the East, and the Wizards had a horrible team last year. Also, the only thing that remains true about all era's of basketball is that it was about winning. MJ has 6 rings, Wilt does not. MJ is the all-time scoring champion (although he could lose it to Wilt this season), MJ is a 6 time MVP. Statistically, I give MJ the edge. Talent wise, I give MJ the edge Will and Heart- MJ Jordan took the league to heights that Wilt couldn't of imagined. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted February 14, 2003 Exactly but ESPN tells me otherwise...How can they decieve me like that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted February 14, 2003 You just said that Wilt had no Heart? Just because you're points went down doesn't mean he didn't care as much...I don't have the stats with me...But I ASSURE you that Wilt gave a damn. The GAME Changed because of Wilt. The game is still the same as it was in 1987 when Jordan broke loose with NBA's Marketing. Don't let ESPN and Stern trick you otherwise...Jordan wasn't THE GREATEST of All Time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alfdogg Report post Posted February 14, 2003 He didn't say Wilt had *no* heart, he just said he didn't have as much as Jordan. But I'm sure Wilt could still have scored in the mid-30's per game had he wanted to. He had a stronger supporting cast in his later years and didn't need to. No one has brought up the fact that in 1968, he led the league in assists. Those are the kinds of things he was doing instead of scoring those extra ten or so points per game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted February 14, 2003 Jordan's stats also fell during the playoffs. In fact, nearly everyone has worse stats. It has to do with the increased competition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Electrifyer Report post Posted February 14, 2003 Jordan's stats didn't decsrease in the playoffs, they increased. Don't you remember his 63 point game setting a record high in play-off points? Just take a look the the increased PPG: http://espn.go.com/nba/s/2001/0910/1250346.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
