This feud sucks.

[Guest bob_barron]

Oh........so all this is for a match next week that makes it worse since the cut off point on the build up to this match next week ends with Kurt having no offense yet in the feud.

 

Which means next week might be the WWE testing the waters to see if it's WM Main Event material and will base it off a one sided build up so far.

I don't really get what you're saying.

 

The final segment was supposed to make people excited to see Angle v. Brock next week.

 

So IF Team Angle beat the fuck out of him next week then people will hate Angle that much more and be like: Wow- Angle totally outsmarted him.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

You did, but how many of the rest of the fans did?

 

And how did we go from saying HBK looked good in his build up with Austin to now saying he looked like a bitch? Or did I hear you wrong?

 

I was saying regardless of HBK's build up the marks all knew Austin would win, but if you're saying HBK looked like a bitch I must have heard you wrong.

[Guest bob_barron]

Yep- it gets the fans excited for the match next week.

[Guest bob_barron]

You did, but how many of the rest of the fans did?

 

And how did we go from saying HBK looked good in his build up with Austin to now saying he looked like a bitch? Or did I hear you wrong?

 

I was saying regardless of HBK's build up the marks all knew Austin would win, but if you're saying HBK looked like a bitch I must have heard you wrong.

I don't remember much of the HBK v. Austin buildup.

 

I remember Tyson joining DX and HBK taunting Austin once and that's about it.

[Guest Anglesault]

DX still looked dangerous against Austin.

 

And Michaels was retiring after the match! Angle is still here and very valuable.

I'm trying to figure out exactly when DX actually looked strong against Austin. Also, HBK's retirement doesn't play into it because he still looked like a bitch, Mike Tyson or not.

They got some beat downs in there. The "You'll never, EVER hold this" promo comes to mind with Austin in the ropes.

 

And Michaels retirement DOES make a difference, because even if they had Austin walk in a Stunner him 37 times a show, it can't hurt HBK because he's GONE.

 

Brock obliterating Angle week in and week out sucks because Angle is HERE after Mania.

[Guest Brian]

Well, the point they're trying to push across is that Brock is going to win next week, that he can beat the odds. It's a different booking perspective to have Angle get shots in at Brock this early in the feud because generally Brock should come out at first looking strong, and Angle should play-off that to gain his advantage and set-up the face will overcome story. You're selling a match for next week in that fans are watching to see Brock win, rather than watching to see Brock overcome from one moment of weakness. The point of a big feud like this is to build lots of moments where people think Brock can go down, thus he has to overcome right now. The story is neither strong enough nor Angle been positioned properly for that to work out. You're putting far too much stock into a handful of moments.

 

Again, playing build-ups for a week serves the purpose of trading wins. In the end, the count becomes blurred and you have to look at the last interactions and the overall story to pick-up on what's happening. If they can use this too position Angle as a "smarter" guy in the ring who knows how to beat Brock, it can work to their advantage for the long run.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Hey if they have Angle and Team Angle beat down Lesnar next week I WILL have renewed hope I've said that more than once now.

 

I'm just a little leary since the WWE has put out a lot of one sided feuds over the last year or so.

 

Oh.........and everyone was making these exact same comments about Jericho/HHH last year before it degraded into dog poop

[Guest Brian]

See, the point is that I've been tryinbg to make is that people are keeping too much of a scorecard of individual moments rather than looking at how the feud is playing out and how each point serves a purpose.

[Guest Anglesault]

The final segment was supposed to make people excited to see Angle v. Brock next week.

 

So IF Team Angle beat the fuck out of him next week then people will hate Angle that much more and be like: Wow- Angle totally outsmarted him.

And you can't do that without making it clear that Angle is totally out of Brock's league. Bob, nothing personal, but you SUCK as a booker.

 

Brock beating Cena, and Angle sneaking in and dimmin his lights, then cutting the promo would get fans excited to see brock get his hands on Angle. Also, brock would be in a rage next week, making it more plausible that he fell for such an obvious trap.

 

And I have this nagging feeling that Kurt will come out nest week and say "No match this week, you've got Albert" or something and that will be that.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

See, the point is that I've been tryinbg to make is that people are keeping too much of a scorecard of individual moments rather than looking at how the feud is playing out and how each point serves a purpose.

but isn't it the little moments that make or break a feud?

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

If we're looking at Austin/HBK from a mark's perspective, it's the exact same thing you're bitching about now. The markish fanbase knew jackshit about HBK's supposedly career-ending back injury, so in the end he still looked like a bitch and really stood no chance against Austin when the match actually happened in their eyes.

 

On the "This is as close as you're ever going to get..." promo/beatdown, that's pretty much the only time he had the upperhand over Austin(excluding that NYC thing they did outdoors), because the whole Mike Tyson joining DX thing was done to piss off Vince.

[Guest Anglesault]

You're selling a match for next week in that fans are watching to see Brock win, rather than watching to see Brock overcome from one moment of weakness.

Ah. I get it. Angle is being booked like Brock's personal jobber so the match is seemingly in the bag next week, and when Angle attacks, he'll look like a smart jobber or something.

[Guest bob_barron]

No offence taken AS- we just have two different styles.

 

It looks like they're doing this-

Brock has gotten the better of Team Angle every time so far so the fans think Brock will kill Kurt next week. So when next Thursday comes around and Team Angle do a big beatdown- it'll change the whole complexion of the feud.

 

I have this nagging feeling that Kurt will come out nest week and say "No match this week, you've got Albert" or something and that will be that.

 

And if that happens you have every right to bitch- I will agree with you all the way

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

If we're looking at Austin/HBK from a mark's perspective, it's the exact same thing you're bitching about now. The markish fanbase knew jackshit about HBK's supposedly career-ending back injury, so in the end he still looked like a bitch and really stood no chance against Austin when the match actually happened in their eyes.

 

On the "This is as close as you're ever going to get..." promo/beatdown, that's pretty much the only time he had the upperhand over Austin(excluding that NYC thing they did outdoors), because the whole Mike Tyson joining DX thing was done to piss off Vince.

 

I was using it more of a analogy to show the way marks can be molded into a certain thinking on a feud rather than a direct parallel to this feud

[Guest Brian]

If that's their bait and switch I'll be pissed.

 

No, because it's a little moment that serves the purpose of building to an early climax point in the feud (Brock getting his hands on Angle leads to Angle finding out a new way to outsmart Angle). Of ocurse if they do something stupid, it doesn't work, and this is a real make-or-break point in the feud because really giving Angle a beatdown next week and a win at the pay per view means alot of momentum heading into the WrestleMania gap.

[Guest Anglesault]

On the "This is as close as you're ever going to get..." promo/beatdown, that's pretty much the only time he had the upperhand over Austin(excluding that NYC thing they did outdoors), because the whole Mike Tyson joining DX thing was done to piss off Vince.

I remember HBK getting him like once or twice a show near the end. It's all a blur though.

 

Brock has gotten the better of Team Angle every time so far so the fans think Brock will kill Kurt next week. So when next Thursday comes around and Team Angle do a big beatdown- it'll change the whole complexion of the feud.

 

I just don't like the idea of making Brock look at much better than Angle. They should be portrayed as equals. Just Angle is evil.

[Guest the pinjockey]

All I see happening next week is at best Angle sends either Haas or Benjamin in his place, because they can't give away the first match on free TV. What I actually see happening is Heyman signing Spanky up for a suicide mission.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Also don't forget the superkick on the stage that HBK gave Austin.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Only other time HBK got the better of Austin was in the Rumble 98 build-up where he superkicked him on the stage, so that's probably what you're thinking of.

[Guest NoCalMike]

Well for one thing, the fans don't really care about Brock Lesnar.  Angle is paying such a good heel that it doesn't matter who is thrown in against him.  Ever since Heyman and Brock split, Brock has become another dull hoss.  He isn't horrible in the ring, but he isn't anything special either. So he can do a SSP, big deal that is a nice way to end the match, but how about the rest of the match?  I shudder to think that the future ME of Smackdown is possibly gonna be Brock the face(chuckles loudly) vs. Nothing Jones.  It is sad, very sad.

One difference between Brock and the rest is that Brock is actually mega over.

 

At MSG he got the loudest pop of the night and the crowd expoloded for everything he did.

 

They're actually making the title match seem important this year rather then last year where it seemed like they went: Oops- we kinda forgot about Triple H v. Jericho.

I agree about his pop at MSG, I saw the ppv at the sportsbar and heard it, however for one thing, NY is not your typical crowd. They often go against the grain as far as which wrestler to cheer for, or they just get super into the matches where as the rest of the country won't. Another thing is, by that point The Rock was such a dull, repetative, face character that, I don't see how UNIMAGINABLE it was to be cheering some "new blood" Ever since Summerslam, his crowd heat has NEVER been the same. So far, (to me) he has not shown the ability to get over in the ring, or with his current character. He was fine as a heel by having Heyman get him over. A longer run with Heyman may have helped as his breakup and face turn seemed like a rushed and kind of desperate move.

[Guest bob_barron]

I was referring to Survivor Series not Summerslam

[Guest Anglesault]

The Superkick is what I remember. I also remember that the camera missed most of it.

 

Only other time HBK got the better of Austin was in the Rumble 98 build-up where he superkicked him on the stage, so that's probably what you're thinking of.

 

The Kick on the stage was like two weeks before mania. I remember that. Austin was gonna fight HHH.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Only other time HBK got the better of Austin was in the Rumble 98 build-up where he superkicked him on the stage, so that's probably what you're thinking of.

In the WM14 Video Package they showed it.......I guess they just included it for the heck of it.

[Guest Brian]

It doesn't though. You've got to think long-term. Look at it this way: Angle gets the shot at Brock next week and takes the tag match at No Way Out via pin over Brock. Two straight wins and they've pretty much drawn even. From there on out Angle needs to make methodical attacks and use Team Angle to as boundary to keep Brock away (like he did the other week). It works on multiple levels because Angle stays ahead in the feud, Team Angle has the eventual frustration of being used by Angle to keep a title he loses in the future, and Brock can't get his hands on this guy who seems to be a step ahead of him, even though he knows physically he should be able to beat him (but mentally, no).

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Do you think the WWE will do that?

 

If they do then okay, but I won't hold my breath.

[Guest bob_barron]

His crowd heat has NEVER been the same.

 

What about Armageddon where he got the loudest pop of the night.

 

Or Royal Rumble where he again got huge pops.

 

The guy is mega over as a face. Summerslam was the start of it all

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Yeah, I got that mixed up from when he got jumped by Rocky, Los Boriquas and bunch of other jobbers that he was killing leading up to the Rumble.

[Guest Anglesault]

This is what i remember about that Kick. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Austin is coming out for a match, when he suddenly veers to the right and attacks something, the camera totally misses it. The camera pans over to see HHH, and Austin turning around into a foot from the other side. The camera moves to show HBK standing there. Horrible coverage.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

This is what i remember about that Kick. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Austin is coming out for a match, when he suddenly veers to the right and attacks something, the camera totally misses it. The camera pans over to see HHH, and Austin turning around into a foot from the other side. The camera moves to show HBK standing there. Horrible coverage.

They used a lot better camera angle of it in the video packages.

[Guest Brian]

I think they'll do the first part; letting Angle get the upperhand and Team Angle winning the match (whether that is by Brock pin or not I'm not sure). The key in booking this match is making sure Brock and Angle never touch until the big hot tag and clear out where they're left in the ring, where Brock gets the upper hand before Angle makes his move, and as Brock makes the comeback he gets tripped up and Angle gets the win. But, I'm pretty sure Team Angle is going over.

 

Whether they can actually pull off the next five weeks I'm unsure of. More than likely, they'll trade off with Angle getting the upper hand three out of five times.