Will they pull the plug?

[Guest Risk]

You can't blame Jericho for not being over...look who the booker is.  Even if he wasn't over, HHH is a lot more UNOVER than Jericho.

[Guest Sakura]

And why wouldn't giving Jericho the win the give him some credability and then dropping the belts to HHH at Backlash be a good idea?

 

 

They already had Jericho pin Rock several times and Austin. He's still not over. Why would another win suddenly get him so over and so credible? The booking for his reign has been a disaster since day 1, did you really want another 4 weeks of that crap?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

BECAUSE IT's WRESTLEMANIA.

 

You can win every stupid ppv main envent...but this is WrestleMania.

 

HHH seemed to gain alot of cred by retaining as a heel in 2000.

 

another 4 weeks of this crap?  yes.  If the alternative is a champion who can't compete and his stupid girlfriend.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Oh yeah.....Jericho could've gotten real over. I mean he did beat Austin and Rock.....despite being beaten several times in the course of the match, using tons of cheating and weapons and having the entire Canadian Army run in to everyone of his matches....including crappy Raw matches. Yeah that'll get him WAY over.

Jericho was booked horribley! People say "Oh he's a heel he has to cheat!" well why can't he use a low blow or feet on the ropes? Why does he have to find every weapon and have the locker room run in?

Oh and let's not forget the fact that he was Steph's lackey. Not partner....lackey. Running all over the country to get lotion.

 

Yeah with the way it was booked even Rock would've become very unover in that role.

[Guest Sakura]

I thought the general consensus was that WM was now "just another ppv?

[Guest El Satanico]

Well Jericho's lack of being "over" has very little in common with HHH's lack of being "over".    

 

Jericho has been getting decent heat for last month and a half. His "heat" has also been getting bigger each week. And he hasn't even been getting a very good "push" to help truly make him hated. Other then getting dirty wins over Austin and Rock WWF basically made him fend for himself.

 

WWF pushed HHH harder then any other current face and even made him into a hero for "going through #### for 8 months". Everything WWF could do to make HHH the giant saintly "face" going aganest his evil wife and a weasel that has stole big wins over two other big faces they did. And the outcome they got for all this work was a "monster face" that barely got more reaction then the heel that they gave a half assed push.

 

So until heel Jericho gets a big push like HHH received you can't really use that comparison.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

What does the general concesus have to do with your discussion with me?

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

WWF turned WM into "just another PPV" with their crappy buildup and mediocre showing.

[Guest Sakura]

Yeah with the way it was booked even Rock would've become very unover in that role.

 

 

Survivor Series: Rock beats Mankind via a weak Montreal finish.

 

RAW: Rock pins Austin with help from the Corporation, Undertaker and a shovel.

 

Rock Bottom: Rock loses to Mankind clean.

 

RAW: Rock loses the WWF Title to Mankind.

 

Royal Rumble: Rock beats Mankind in an "I Quit" match by having Mankind's voice played over the sound system.

 

Halftime Heat: Rock loses the WWF Title to Mankind clean.

 

St. Valentines Day Massacre: Rock and Mankind fight to a draw.

 

RAW: Rock wins the WWF Title from Mankind with Big Show's help.

 

Wrestlemania: Austin beats Rock clean.

 

Backlash: Austin beats Rock clean.

 

 

Rock was still massively over.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Let's look at the difference between Jericho and HHH being unover.

 

January 7:  HHH return is the Main Event of the show

 

Royal Rumble:  Jericho retains in heel fashion over the Rock.

                   HHH wins the Royal Rumble

 

Night after Rumble:  HHH confronts Jericho and pretty much tells him he's not in hhh's league.

 

No Way Out:  HHH has one of the worst matches in history...and momentarily loses the title shot...to try and gain some sympathy

                  Jericho is overshadowed by the NWO and retains while looking like a joke.

 

Between No Way Out and Mania:  HHH gets his shot back.

                                             Jericho is made Steph's bitch, and takes 4th place in the feud to HHH, Steph and Lucy.

 

WrestleMania:  HHH predictably wins the world title in a bad match with no heat.

                    Jericho loses clean...despite his use of interference.

 

hmm.......why is it worse that HHH isn't over?

[Guest Sakura]

What does the general concesus have to do with your discussion with me?

 

 

Uh, if everyone thinks of WM as just another ppv, retaining at it wouldn't be that big of a deal?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I don't consider it another ppv.

 

The fact that it does bigger buyrates than all the others means that the marks don't consider it another ppv.

 

I don't see commorative books, magazines, and tv specials for Judgment Day...

 

So I'll ask again.

 

What does the general concesus have to do with your discussion with me?

[Guest Some Guy]

Yeah but Austin was still booked as the top star during that time and drawing huge.  There is nobody drawing huge right now, so treating your world champ like that is really stupid IMO, I thought it was kind of dumb then too. I hate when a new and unproven champ plays 2nd fiddle to the previous champ. Hogan did it to Savage and Warrior, Flair did to others as well.  Austin and Hogan however were free and clear as the Iron Shiek was a joke and HBK retired,  HHH had the advantage of Austin's injury. Jercho was not just playing 2nd fiddle, he was playing 7th fiddle behind Hogan, Rock, Austin, HHH, Steph, and nWo.

[Guest Sakura]

I could very well be wrong, but I thought you were saying a few days ago that the title match had no build and that X8 didn't seem like a big show or on the level of other Wrestlemania's.

 

Either way, I don't think Jericho retaining would give him that much credibility, even if it is WM. His reign has been that bad.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

RAW: Rock pins Austin with help from the Corporation, Undertaker and a shovel.

Rock didn't pin Austin. He got DQed because Taker hit Austin with the shovel.

[Guest Sakura]

Rock didn't pin Austin. He got DQed because Taker hit Austin with the shovel.

 

 

Oh yeah, that's right. Then a couple days later Austin "blacked out" at a house show or something.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Yes there runs look similar. But they are actually different....let's take a look:

 

But the fact was Rock was already a credible heel in the fans eyes. He had that long run with the IC title that had the fans out for his blood. But he's so cool and funny they just want to cheer him. So they turn him face and the fans are happy then they turn around and steal it from the fans...pissing them off. Then he beats up loveable babyface Mankind several millions times and aligns himself with already hated heels in the corporation. Then he loses to Austin but steals his belt and makes Austin chase him for another month for it. The whole time he's being cool...he's being funny and the fans just want to cheer him..but then he does something dastardly and the fans are like "Dammit! I believed in you! #######!" And he is in the main event of every TV show by the way.  Wow....that was a great heel run.

Now let's compare it to Jericho:

Is a babyface who is portrayed  "not being able to win the big one". Goes against Rock and wins the "big one" but needs a chair. 2 weeks later he is beaten by Rock. Then Rock cows him in front of the whole locker room. Jericho is made to look like nothing to The Rock. Still over as a babyface though. At Survivor Series he turns on Rock. He's thrust into the big Undisputed Title tournament...despite the fact that he's still viewed as mediocre. Not any kind of a threat...he still "can't win the big one". He fights and wins that night with tons of interference and cheating. He turns around and fights in the mdicard on TV and has to cheat even to win these matches. He's rarely in the main event and The Rock gets a shot against him.....and just totally overlooks him. Gives an awesome "I'm not a pushover" interview but is still viewed as one. Fights Rock and needs interference, ref bumps, and weapons to beat Rock. Oh and Rock beats him several times in the match....just no ref. Next he is put against Austin. Once again he is put on Mid-Card(or opening in some cases) and can barely win on his own. He attacks Austin the week before the PPV but cows to Austin on SD! and looks like a total pussy. At No Way Out he is once again beaten several times during the match and needs the nWo to save him. He's not even the focus after the match and just kinda walks off....the match was really just an excuse for the nWo to cause Austin grief. It didn't matter who it was against. Then he once again is put into mid-show main events and aligned with Steph. But he is portrayed as her lackey. The focus is on HHH/Steph not HHH/Jericho.

 

Now let's break it down:

-Rock was already credible going into his run

-Jericho was viewed as mediocre going into his run

 

-Rock got constant main events

-Jericho got mid-show main events

 

-Rock was with ultra-dastardly group and did ultra dastradly things

-Jericho was by himself for the most part and walked around with ultra dastardly pants

 

-Rock was never made to look like a pussy in his matches

-Jericho was made to look like a pussy in his matches

 

-Rock was portrayed as good and he had friends to back him up

-Jericho was portrayed as a wuss who NEEDED friends to back him up

 

-Rock beat up lovable Mankind and he and his group screwed the poor guy

-Jericho got his ass kicked by Rock and Austin but barely slipped through in the end

 

Wow not so similar are they?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I did ask that.

 

I asked if people thought that the build ws so bad that it didn't feel like WrestleMania.

 

Because the build was horrible.

 

But it's still WrestleMania.

 

And if that wasn't special...there wouldn't have been any reason to ask the question in the first place.

[Guest Risk]

Either way, I don't think Jericho retaining would give him that much credibility, even if it is WM. His reign has been that bad.

 

Again, look who is doing the booking.  WM could have been saved if they just had Jericho beat Rock and Austin clean AT LEAST ONCE.

[Guest BA_Baracus]

Uhhh...

 

...since when is HHH un-over?

 

He's very over.  Given the huge amount of sway he has backstage, no-way are they "pulling the plug" on Helmsley...

[Guest goodhelmet]

Excellent point Mighty! Jericho's lack of heat is not his fault. He had tons of heat when he entered the WWF and tons as a babyface, arguably the 2nd or 3rd biggest face in the company. His lack of heat is because of the shitty storylines and the way the title has been devalued. Look at his match with Rock for the WCW title. Unbelievable Heat!!! Jericho was over!!!

 

"Either way, I don't think Jericho retaining would give him that much credibility, even if it is WM. His reign has been that bad."

 

once again, not his fault. HHH's first title reign sucked sh*t too until he kidnapped Vince and had Foley put him over. A win at Mania would have done wonders for Jericho. It was the last piece of the puzzle for him. Now, it's still missing.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Ironically...HHH said on Conan that Jericho was just missing one thing to make him a top guy.

 

Apparently HHH didn't really care.

[Guest Sakura]

Jericho was by himself for the most part and walked around with ultra dastardly pants

 

 

Ha! But yeah, you're right. Jericho was made to look worse than Rock.

 

 

And if that wasn't special...there wouldn't have been any reason to ask the question in the first place.

 

 

touché

 

 

 

WM could have been saved if they just had Jericho beat Rock and Austin clean AT LEAST ONCE.

 

 

Yeah, but they didn't.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

did you watch Mania B.A.?

 

Did you watch anything after January 7th with HHH.

 

He is alot of things (most of which I was calling him when he won) but he is NOT over.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

The major blame that I have for Jericho goes to whoever decided that the best way for Jericho to "win the big one" was for the Rock to NOT tap to the walls.

 

had the rock tapped...Jericho would have had more credability than beating Rock and Austin a thousand times cheaply.

[Guest Sakura]

once again, not his fault.

 

 

Of course not.

 

 

I don't think Jericho winning at WM would be the puzzle piece. Even if he won he'd still be Steph's lackey and he'd probably still fight in the midcard. The puzzle piece has to be more than just a win over HHH, he needs his character modified, he needs several wins(not clean, but not massive cheating). The win would be a start, I suppose, but it's pretty obvious the WWF has no plans to go ahead and push him heavily at this point so continuing the reign into Backlash probably wouldn't make that much of a difference.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Where does he go from here? To get his ass kicked by HHH at Backlash? To get beat up by Austin?

They should've had a Flair/Jericho title match before it was over to. They built it so perfectly before RR. Jericho rolling over one of the biggest legends ever would've done wonders. I mean who gets that honor? UT? Mr. 10-0ld Sack of Sh*t!?

What he should really do is go back to being a Whiny B*tch like in 98. He can come out and complain about being a "Conspiracy Victim" and throw tantrums. He should insult everything in site and he should also win matches in the Upper Card to back it up. But we all know what will happen. He'll "snap" like Kurt Angle.

Dammit.....I really hate the WWF right now.....I booked better storylines when I was 10 playing with my WWF Toys....

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

He should go on a winning streak until SS and regain the title there. That'd be that "extra piece" that HHH was talking about. I think HHH found that "extra piece" and buried deep in New Mexico however.....

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I booked better storylines when I was 10 playing with my WWF Toys....

 

 

 

Damaramu, I may steal this line and put it in my quote.  I will of course give you credit.  But the line is too good to be ignored.

[Guest Sakura]

He'll "snap" like Kurt Angle.

 

Yep. They'll drop it soon after it starts, too.