Guest Jobber of the Week Posted April 10, 2003 Report Posted April 10, 2003 Johnny Ace was supposed to be the agent laying out the match between Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar at Wrestlemania, but in actuality Angle did most of the match. Some questioned whether the match did more to get over Angle or Lesnar, with some accusing the match of favoring Angle in the losing effort. In particular, one spot that people point out is the guerilla press slam by Lesnar, which was too similar to the F5, and made fans wonder why Lesnar wouldn’t just finish the match there with the F5. credit: Pro Wrestling Torch Newsletter Er.. the hell? I see no problem with Brock using the Press Slam. While there is a small sake of arguement that the F5 could happen there, it's easier to counter than just being picked up and thrown. I thought we all figured Angle would rock the mat stuff until The Immortal Brockster pulled out his power moves and started kicking BUTT. Besides, Lesnar does it in Smackdown Shut Your Mouth (up and O button to a standing opponent), so I see no problem with him busting out the video game moveset.
Ultimo Dugas Posted April 10, 2003 Report Posted April 10, 2003 I understand about the whole press slam and F-5 thing but don't use video game movesets to justify it. Because I swear, even in SYM, many wrestlers have been given moves that they have NEVER used.
Guest Jobber of the Week Posted April 10, 2003 Report Posted April 10, 2003 True. I'm STILL trying to figure out WTF that thing with the knee around the neck is.
Guest DarthLordOfWrestling Posted April 10, 2003 Report Posted April 10, 2003 Lots of stuff in wrestling doesn’t make sense. I can understand that Lesnar didn’t do the five-5 there. It wasn’t even that similar to the position of the F-5. For an example, Jericho can do the linesault when the guy is on the ground just like the rock can do the people’s elbow. They don’t do it when they get in the match. Rock always has the guy on the a lot.I'm glad they don't do a clothesline finish, that would be plain boring If it’s a no d.q. math and your tag team partner always interferes at the middle or end when he could just go in there at the beginning of the match and 2 on 1 the opponent. Like I said a lot of stuff doesn’t make sense. Do even start on the storyline
Guest FeArHaVoC Posted April 10, 2003 Report Posted April 10, 2003 Johnny Ace was supposed to be the agent laying out the match between Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar at Wrestlemania, but in actuality Angle did most of the match. Some questioned whether the match did more to get over Angle or Lesnar, with some accusing the match of favoring Angle in the losing effort. Damn that Angle for trying to book a entertaining match! Damn his evil soul straight to Hell!
Guest AndrewTS Posted April 10, 2003 Report Posted April 10, 2003 I understand about the whole press slam and F-5 thing but don't use video game movesets to justify it. Because I swear, even in SYM, many wrestlers have been given moves that they have NEVER used. Nash's plancha, most of Nash's moveset, Maven's moveset... True. I'm STILL trying to figure out WTF that thing with the knee around the neck is. A stretch muffler--yes, it is a real hold. You use the weight of some one's body to add pressure to the knee as you have it wrapped around your neck. Brock's spirit meter wasn't full. Nooo, that's the AKI games. Brock hasn't gotten a Smackdown icon yet. Or maybe he was trying to earn 2 so he could do the anklelock or Olympic Slam. Geez, it's so simple.
Guest AndrewTS Posted April 10, 2003 Report Posted April 10, 2003 I thought this thread was going to be how the shitty fued was booked, not just the match, BTW.
Guest Dynamite Kido Posted April 10, 2003 Report Posted April 10, 2003 Actually from what I have heard, Brock and Angle BOTH came up with the ideas for their match. I know for the last several years that Pat Patterson actually booked the Wrestlemania main events so if Kurt and Brock didn't I would imagine that Patterson would have done it and not Johnny Ace. But I guess with the constant jumbling of everything backstage I am sure that anything is possible. But as far as the feud being booked maybe Ace had a lot to do with it. Creativly though I heard that Heyman consulted a lot of it but didn't do it himself because of his recent demotion on the booking team(which personally I hate).
Guest Memoirs of an Invisible Chevy Posted April 10, 2003 Report Posted April 10, 2003 Whats with this Angle backlash? As soon as he becomes a megitimate player in the company, people start shitting on him. He has more talent, vision, and raw ability than 99% of anyone who has ever wrestled for the company. He wanted to put on a match that was different than anyone had ever seen. Not a copy of a previous one, or an alteration of it. It didn't mean the standards of Japanese wrestling fans, or even hardcore wrestling fans - he wasn't out to meet their expectations. It was about doing something to break the mold. I thought it was great, and ballsy. It was a pretty slow match to begin with, with not much crowd heat, but his story-telling ability drew everyone in. He was a wonderful vision for the company, and I look forward to him mapping out more matches in the future.
Guest webmasterofwrestlegame Posted April 10, 2003 Report Posted April 10, 2003 Didn't I read somewhere (either Observer or Torch) that Brock was the one piecing the match together, and he was quite insistent on doing certain things? Angle sort of went with the flow and many higher ups in WWE saw it as a learning curve for Brock. Something like that - anyone else read that?
Guest creativename Posted April 10, 2003 Report Posted April 10, 2003 Whats with this Angle backlash? As soon as he becomes a megitimate player in the company, people start shitting on him. He has more talent, vision, and raw ability than 99% of anyone who has ever wrestled for the company. He wanted to put on a match that was different than anyone had ever seen. Not a copy of a previous one, or an alteration of it. It didn't mean the standards of Japanese wrestling fans, or even hardcore wrestling fans - he wasn't out to meet their expectations. It was about doing something to break the mold. I thought it was great, and ballsy. It was a pretty slow match to begin with, with not much crowd heat, but his story-telling ability drew everyone in. He was a wonderful vision for the company, and I look forward to him mapping out more matches in the future. What are you talking about? There is certainly no "Angle backlash" amongst the smarks. The article is referring to backstage reactions and politics. Also, I'd hardly call this Angle getting "power". He booked his own match; this is not a major power thing. If he had booked the entire angle and made it so that he punked out Brock at every opportunity (i.e., the exact opposite of what happened), then people would have reason to say something. As it is, this is just more political BS directed at the wrong guys.
Guest Redhawk Posted April 10, 2003 Report Posted April 10, 2003 Further proof that wrestlers -- or whoever the "some" is in this story -- can be petty and paranoid retards. Don't these guys realize it's just a TV show? And why shouldn't the World champ look strong? This just gives me a headache.
Guest Memoirs of an Invisible Chevy Posted April 10, 2003 Report Posted April 10, 2003 Whats with this Angle backlash? As soon as he becomes a megitimate player in the company, people start shitting on him. He has more talent, vision, and raw ability than 99% of anyone who has ever wrestled for the company. He wanted to put on a match that was different than anyone had ever seen. Not a copy of a previous one, or an alteration of it. It didn't mean the standards of Japanese wrestling fans, or even hardcore wrestling fans - he wasn't out to meet their expectations. It was about doing something to break the mold. I thought it was great, and ballsy. It was a pretty slow match to begin with, with not much crowd heat, but his story-telling ability drew everyone in. He was a wonderful vision for the company, and I look forward to him mapping out more matches in the future. What are you talking about? There is certainly no "Angle backlash" amongst the smarks. The article is referring to backstage reactions and politics. Also, I'd hardly call this Angle getting "power". He booked his own match; this is not a major power thing. If he had booked the entire angle and made it so that he punked out Brock at every opportunity (i.e., the exact opposite of what happened), then people would have reason to say something. As it is, this is just more political BS directed at the wrong guys. Numerous newsletters have said people backstage were critisizing Angle for making himself look too strong in the match. But people certainly haven't been as pro-Angle lately as usual. Many people are stepping up to the plate to discredit his in-ring work, and his few flaws. Just an observation.
Guest creativename Posted April 10, 2003 Report Posted April 10, 2003 Numerous newsletters have said people backstage were critisizing Angle for making himself look too strong in the match. But people certainly haven't been as pro-Angle lately as usual. Many people are stepping up to the plate to discredit his in-ring work, and his few flaws. Just an observation. You're really not being clear here--are you talking about wrestlers, or fans? Because I haven't heard anything from fans criticizing Angle. People have always said that he wasn't quite on the level of a Benoit or Eddie as a pure worker, and personally I think he's one of the worst when it comes to no-selling long-term move impact. Haven't heard anything beyond that though, at all. The fact is, if smarks find a guy entertaining, they'll forgive him most stuff anyway. That's why if HHH was still entertaining in any way, shape, or form, he wouldn't get half the hardcore hate he does. Further proof that wrestlers -- or whoever the "some" is in this story -- can be petty and paranoid retards. Don't these guys realize it's just a TV show? And why shouldn't the World champ look strong? This just gives me a headache. What really gets me is the sheer backwardsness of it all--why would they be on Angle for such a thin reason, when they let the backstage power types get away with everything? Remember Johnny Ace and the whole "Matt isn't over as a heel" nonsense? After you read books written by such wrestler, you realize that all this stuff reported backstage about people being paranoid about this stuff really is true. It just amazes me that they can get so paranoid about nitpicky details, and completely ignore the big picture.
rising up out of the back seat-nuh Posted April 11, 2003 Report Posted April 11, 2003 The thing some people seem to have missed out on is that Angle needed to look strong in that match because he looked week in the feud. If Brock had been dominant, it would have just seemed like Angle had no chance of going over Lesnar. As it is, the re-match is still open.
Guest Jobber of the Week Posted April 11, 2003 Report Posted April 11, 2003 As it is, the re-match is still open. We have a winner. Anybody else think that Angle vs Lesnar could become the next Austin vs Rock or Bret vs Shawn?
Guest Memoirs of an Invisible Chevy Posted April 11, 2003 Report Posted April 11, 2003 As it is, the re-match is still open. We have a winner. Anybody else think that Angle vs Lesnar could become the next Austin vs Rock or Bret vs Shawn? Nope, it should be Angle vs. Benoit.
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