Does HHH really deserve the scrutiny?

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I mean, I'm beginning to sympathize with him. Every little move he makes is analyzed for possible backstage political motivation. It's like he's the President or some shit.

 

"OMG! He didn't pin Booker right away! POLITICS~!"

 

I think HHH has been improving since Evolution and it's becoming apparant in the ring as well as out. Now granted, sometimes he brings it on himself but isn't the level of detail with which you scruntinize him rather... insane?

[Guest Anglesault]

Kicking out of two of the other guys finishers and then hitting your own and pinning him after half a minute is burial. No other way to look at it.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

He's brought the scrutiny on himself by past actions. I only react when I REALLY think he's done something though.

 

I don't seriously believe everything he does is politics.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

If "improving" means "actually being able to sort of..kinda..well, almost..wrestle..every week.." I guess he's improved. Then again, Maven could out-wrestle HHH by this point.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Kicking out of two of the other guys finishers and then hitting your own and pinning him after half a minute is burial. No other way to look at it.

Before I wrote this I went back to my tape of XIX and TIMED the delay: it was 9 seconds.

 

I understand what you mean, but you guys exaggerate alot.

[Conspiracy_Victim 0]

Well, HHH has:

 

a) Gotten involved with the owner's daughter and by all reports parlayed it into his own gain.

 

b) Refused to drop the belt when it seems the best for the company.

 

c) Gotten more camera time than just about anyone else in the company to no gain.

 

d) Reportedly refused to put over anyone else and at times has made them look bad in the ring (see kicking out of finishers/XIX pin).

 

e) He was awarded a title after deeming the IC belt "below" him and consolidated all other singles titles so there's nothing else for anyone to go for.

 

f) The only time in the past 7 months he's lost the belt is to a friend of his who can't compete on a full time basis, and then won it back the very next month.

 

I admit, I liked HHH pre-quad and enjoyed watching him work. Since his return, however, I've found him annoying (not in a heel way either, just in general), a poor worker, and generally a pain in the ass. Just IMO.

[Guest The Son of Sting]

He is no worse than most.People forget how bad HBK was with politcs,Hogan ,Austin,Thesz,Piper,Flair etc.You could go on and on, i think it has a lot to do with his releationship with Steph for some reason.

[Guest newblood03]

Even "Mean" Gene Okerlund said in word association.....interviewer : Triple H? Gene: Smart in the buisness... Smart in the marriage he is makking

[Guest Coffey]

[Guest AndrewTS]

Kicking out of two of the other guys finishers and then hitting your own and pinning him after half a minute is burial. No other way to look at it.

Also, on a night when it took 3 finishers to beat most of the losers (Vince took 3 legdrops to go down. VINCE!), it took ONE Pedigree, with a delayed pin to beat Booker.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

He is no worse than most.People forget how bad HBK was with politcs,Hogan ,Austin,Thesz,Piper,Flair etc.You could go on and on, i think it has a lot to do with his releationship with Steph for some reason.

That is the thing. All those people have had political power, but none of them have had a relationship and soon a marriage to the heir to the WWE throne!

[Guest caboose]

Kicking out of two of the other guys finishers and then hitting your own and pinning him after half a minute is burial. No other way to look at it.

Before I wrote this I went back to my tape of XIX and TIMED the delay: it was 9 seconds.

 

I understand what you mean, but you guys exaggerate alot.

You might want to check that again. I just timed it at 21 seconds.

[Guest Anglesault]

I heard 27. I don't time things, I'm lazy.

[Guest the pinjockey]

My number was 23, I remember checking it the day after the show.

[LooseCannon25 0]

These guys DO go a little too far. everything he does is looked at by us under a microscope. You guys can talk about politics all you want but HHH is not the freakin owner of the company is he? If McMahon or whoever else decides to have him keep the title.....defeat all of his opponents......be handed a title.....it's OWNER'S call to make.

 

You talk about how he kicked out of Booker's finisher at WMXIX.....big fuckin deal. How come none of you were bitching when Angle kicked out of not 1, not 2, but 3 stunners.......Or when the Rock kicked out of numerous stunners at X7.......or how about Angle kicking out of the F-5. Or Benoit kicking out of Angle Slams.......godforbid Triple H kicks out of a finisher....damn him.....you guys need to look at things BOTH ways for a change

[Guest Super Pissed Smark]

TRIPLE-H: Damnit, I was shooting for 45!

[Guest Creepy Crawl]

Yes

[Guest the pinjockey]

Angle did kick out of F-5s, but Lesnar kicked out of the Angle Slam. People don't kick out of the pedigree except for Foley. You can trade finishers but you can't kick out of someone else's then not expect shit when they don't kick out of yours.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Who cares how long it took...

 

let's not forget that they were fighting over a fake title that HHH had made because the I-C title was beneath him (Goodbye IC Title) in a match that was built up as "black people aren't good enough to win" which HHH only took for Mania because all the big names were already doing something...and as Meltzer said on WOL Booker was supposed to win but that got changed because...and this is a quote..."HHH didn't want to lose to Booker T".

 

Period.

 

21 seconds...9 seconds...fuck it...it shouldn't have been 3 seconds.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I'm not worried about the ending to Booker T/HHH.

 

I hated HHH long before that. Just because some people go too far doesn't negate what he's done.

[Guest Burning Hammer]

I think the biggest problem with Helmsley is that he is obviously using his power to stay on top. Ratings have gone down, house show attendance is down, and buy rates are down since his return from the quad injury. Yet he continues to be the main focal point of the promotion on Raw. From a business standpoint the guys should have been moved out of the spot light about 4 months ago.

[Guest Raven_Effect01]

He is no worse than most.People forget how bad HBK was with politcs,Hogan ,Austin,Thesz,Piper,Flair etc.

I don't think any of us here forgot about the politics HBK and Hogan used in the past. We know the whole "I lost my smile" incident, along with Montreal, Owen Hart being treated as second rate for HBK's buddy HHH to deal with, Bulldog and his ill sister being insulted at One Night Only in the UK, etc.

 

With Hogan, we know that he held guys like Savage, DiBiase, and Perfect down in the past in the WWF, and Hogan also knocked Flair out of WCW main-events in the mid-90's and Flair found himself feuding over the U.S. title with Konnan, along with Hogan's obvious holding down of younger talent.

 

In the cases of Flair and Austin, sometimes their politics were reasonable. During the NWA/pre-WCW days, Dusty Rhodes wanted Luger pushed to main-event status, but Flair said no because he felt Luger would turn out to be a flash-in-the-pan, and he did, as Luger's 90's career proved. Austin didn't want Jarrett pushed as a main-eventer in the WWF because Jarrett wasn't over enough to get a WWF title shot, and with the way his NWA World Heavyweight title reign's been going in TNA, Austin seemed to be in the right, as Jarrett proved to only be good enough as a high mid-carder. Jarrett's WCW World Heavyweight title reign also didn't excite people that much either.

[Guest Anglesault]

You talk about how he kicked out of Booker's finisher at WMXIX.....big fuckin deal. How come none of you were bitching when Angle kicked out of not 1, not 2, but 3 stunners

No he didn't. I remember two. The third time he fell out of the ring. Pet peeve of mine.

 

Anywway, no one said anything about kicking out of a finisher. He kicked out of two and waited a damned long time after his and still got the pin.

[Guest CanadianChick]

I don't know if HHH deserves all the blame he gets, but we need a scapegoat for all WWE's problems and HHH is the most obvious one. Not saying that it isn't jusitified most of the time though.

[Guest papacita]

How come none of you were bitching when Angle kicked out of not 1, not 2, but 3 stunners

I've heard a few people complain that it made the Stunner look weak...but I think that a lot of smarks go overboard when deciding what/who does and doesn't look weak in the eyes of marks anyway, so...eh.

 

As for HHH, I feel that he does bring a lot of the criticism on himself, but in the end the blame should be placed solely on Vince.

[Rendclaw 0]

Also an issue is that a lot of people (not just smarks either) are tired of him. Tired of his act, tired of his crappy wrestling, just plain tired.

 

Its like when Bubba Ray Dudley was being "pushed" to be a challenger to HHH, he said in a semi-shoot; "This isn't the HHH Show!"

 

As long as Vince still decides to keep HHH where he is (and make no mistake he is the ONLY person in the company who can knock HHH off his perch right about now, aside from possibly Stephanie and *perhaps* Shane in some way), the ratings, viewership and show attendance will continue to drop.

 

The issue with HHH's lobbying and resfuals to put guys over is by far not the only major issue the E needs to correct, but in my eyes it is the biggest one.

[LooseCannon25 0]

Now, don't get me wrong........I do believe he is holding people down and he does use politics to stay on top........but if you would ask the WWE why he's on top they'll tell you that he's the most over heel on RAW by far (with the exception of The Rock, but he's gone soon), and it just seems like Vince doens wanna push anybody who hasnt been in WWE for less than 5 years....he wont push the WCW guys for whatever reason. Would I like to see Booker, RVD or Jericho become the Raw champ....of course.....but, its just not in the cards now, and unfortunately, nothing is gonna change Vince's mind......not the ratings, not the buyrates, not the crappy title matches, nothing. Shit, to be honest HBK might have been a bigger dick then HHH but his workrate was unmatched, and he can stillput on a hell of a match. If HHH continues to improve in the ring like he has, thanks to some muscle mass loss recently...and he stays off of the tv so damn much then i dont have a problem with him being champ for now.......We all know there's 1 real champion is his name is Brock Lesnar.

[Guest Breetai]

Kicking out of two of the other guys finishers and then hitting your own and pinning him after half a minute is burial. No other way to look at it.

Before I wrote this I went back to my tape of XIX and TIMED the delay: it was 9 seconds.

 

I understand what you mean, but you guys exaggerate alot.

It was 23 seconds. I checked it just 2 minutes ago. I've got it on video, the pedigree hit at 11:29 of the second half of the vid, and the ref started counting at 11:52. STARTED counting. Not to mention the fact that HHH got more momentum out of that Harlem Hangover than Booker did.

 

Basically, whith all the buildup, with the wrong person going over, and with the match flowing as it did, HHH made Booker T look like a worthless nigger. (Note: I'm using the word for effect, but it's true. HHH in the weeks leading up to the event made cracks about Booker's race, and now in the eyes of the fans, those cracks were right: 'those people' with the natty hair AREN'T capable of being the champion.)

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Angle did kick out of F-5s, but Lesnar kicked out of the Angle Slam. People don't kick out of the pedigree except for Foley. You can trade finishers but you can't kick out of someone else's then not expect shit when they don't kick out of yours.

That sounded like something I'd here on Seinfeld, that is, if it was about wrestling. That's just an idosyncricy. It's practically irrelevent.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

These guys DO go a little too far. everything he does is looked at by us under a microscope. You guys can talk about politics all you want but HHH is not the freakin owner of the company is he? If McMahon or whoever else decides to have him keep the title.....defeat all of his opponents......be handed a title.....it's OWNER'S call to make.

Except old WWE employees and other people have said that the Owner, Vince, is hardly even in control of his own company with all the yes-men and other people in his ear. No one is there to weed out the bad ideas. Whomever is in his ear at the time is who he listens to.

 

That's the biggest problem. He's letting the egos run wild and not doing anything to stop it.