Does HHH really deserve the scrutiny?

[Guest Anglesault]

So, he actually has 26 (That must be where I got 27) seconds to kick out. Stupid incompetant nigger.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Kicking out of two of the other guys finishers and then hitting your own and pinning him after half a minute is burial. No other way to look at it.

Before I wrote this I went back to my tape of XIX and TIMED the delay: it was 9 seconds.

 

I understand what you mean, but you guys exaggerate alot.

It was 23 seconds. I checked it just 2 minutes ago. I've got it on video, the pedigree hit at 11:29 of the second half of the vid, and the ref started counting at 11:52. STARTED counting. Not to mention the fact that HHH got more momentum out of that Harlem Hangover than Booker did.

 

Basically, whith all the buildup, with the wrong person going over, and with the match flowing as it did, HHH made Booker T look like a worthless nigger. (Note: I'm using the word for effect, but it's true. HHH in the weeks leading up to the event made cracks about Booker's race, and now in the eyes of the fans, those cracks were right: 'those people' with the natty hair AREN'T capable of being the champion.)

OK, I admit it. I didn't check the time myself. I asked a friend online to check it for me on his tape and that's what he told me. I guess I'll AIM him now.

 

 

Thanks for setting me straight.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

In the cases of Flair and Austin, sometimes their politics were reasonable. During the NWA/pre-WCW days, Dusty Rhodes wanted Luger pushed to main-event status, but Flair said no because he felt Luger would turn out to be a flash-in-the-pan, and he did, as Luger's 90's career proved. Austin didn't want Jarrett pushed as a main-eventer in the WWF because Jarrett wasn't over enough to get a WWF title shot, and with the way his NWA World Heavyweight title reign's been going in TNA, Austin seemed to be in the right, as Jarrett proved to only be good enough as a high mid-carder. Jarrett's WCW World Heavyweight title reign also didn't excite people that much either.

Even though I am a HUGE fan of both guys, it still wasn't right for them to do what they did.

 

In fact, Flair's treatment of Luger's career in the 80's pretty much helped cultivate the "choker" label he's been saddled with for his entire career. If Luger had been given a chance to flop on his own, then yes, Flair would have been justified in burying him, but he didn't, so it's his fault.

 

Now, the whole Austin/Jarrett thing is a bit more tricky, but still, if they go through with it and then it flops, don't push the guy again til he proves himself.

 

That being said, politics has been a staple of the business for a LONG time and it's not going to change anytime soon, I think. Sad, but true.

[Guest Human Fly]

With HBK, Austin, Hogan, Flair or whoever it was with politics usually they had a reason why they were in the position they were. Either they were over, could put on good matches, or a combination of the two.

 

HHH isn't over enough to warrant burying every face challenger that comes along, and he certainly isn't putting on good matches. Currently I would say he is ahead by a mile for Worst Match of the Year. Don't get me wrong, Steiner sucks big time. But if HHH was half of what he thinks he is (Flair in his prime) he could've pulled a 1 or 2 star match out of it.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Did someone say HHH was the most over heel on RAW? Rock and Jericho both are more over heels on RAW.

 

All together in the WWE Rock, Jericho, and Angle are all more over than HHH.

 

The person who said that might have just been quoting someone so forgive me for implying you thought that if you were just quoting.

[LooseCannon25 0]

Did someone say HHH was the most over heel on RAW? Rock and Jericho both are more over heels on RAW.

 

All together in the WWE Rock, Jericho, and Angle are all more over than HHH.

 

The person who said that might have just been quoting someone so forgive me for implying you thought that if you were just quoting.

Next time you might wanna read the whole quote......I said BESIDES ROCK.......can you see that now. And if you dont think HHH is over listen tonight when his music plays, and he gets the pin

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

With HBK, Austin, Hogan, Flair or whoever it was with politics usually they had a reason why they were in the position they were. Either they were over, could put on good matches, or a combination of the two. 

Here's the thing, though: That shouldn't matter, plus Luger WAS over back then. The NWA probably could have made an assload of money off of a smartly booked Flair/Luger feud instead of treading water til Sting was deemed "ready". In doing what he did, Flair pretty much cost the NWA/WCW a lot of money, especially for GAB 91 where Flair was 'surely' going to drop the title to Luger after YEARS of chasing him.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I said most over HEEL. HHH is getting small face pops when he's supposed to be a heel. Even then a lot of it is entrance pops.

[LooseCannon25 0]

So, you must not hear any face pops when the Rock comes out then? Perhaps you're not paying attention

[Guest Burning Hammer]

Yeah HHH gets a pop from a half full arena. Damn he is over.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Okay then I'll go with Jericho. He's still pretty over as a heel and isn't getting face pops. HHH still isn't their best heel.

[LooseCannon25 0]

Jericho doesnt get face pops? Did you watch WMXIX?

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Actually no I didn't get to.

[Guest JDMattitudeV1]

After an 8-month title reign during which he has cleanly beaten almost every single guy on the Raw roster, the guy should be the most over worker in the company, that is the only way to justify the push he is getting, but he isn't. I think HHH deserves every single bit of scrutiny he gets, as the guy has purposely set out to ruin people careers, so he can play with his vanity title with his friends.

[Guest Cerebus]

Jago.... A picture says a thousand words!

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I think HHH really does manipulate shit backstage, plays the political game, blah blah blah. But many do, and in the end, it's Vince's responsibility. He's still a jackass, but really, he's not the one who should shoulder all of the blame.

 

Also, as much as I dislike who he seems to be, due to his burials of the usual suspects, I will say this about him; he DOES have a passion for the actual wrestling aspect of the product. He is delusional regarding everything else, but he genuinely loves wrestling. I don't think that's disputable, and one only needs to look at how he has worked through injuries, how much he wants to be great, etc. Now if he could combine the best of both worlds, I think that you'd see a lot less HHHate on the board in general.

[Guest Breetai]

He is delusional regarding everything else, but he genuinely loves wrestling. Now if he could combine the best of both worlds, I think that you'd see a lot less HHHate on the board in general.

He is delusional regarding everything else, but he genuinely loves politics. Now if he could combine the best of both worlds, I think that you'd see a lot less Adolf Hitler hate in the world in general.

 

 

Your arguement is fundamentally flawed.

[Guest Super Pissed Smark]

[Guest cynicalprofit]

Isn't this topic called flame baiting? Or something like that.

[Guest bob_barron]

Isn't this topic called flame baiting? Or something like that.

How is that flame baiting? Just because Zsasz is trying to defend HHH he's flame baiting? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[Guest tank_abbott]

Who cares how long it took...

 

let's not forget that they were fighting over a fake title that HHH had made because the I-C title was beneath him (Goodbye IC Title) in a match that was built up as "black people aren't good enough to win" which HHH only took for Mania because all the big names were already doing something...and as Meltzer said on WOL Booker was supposed to win but that got changed because...and this is a quote..."HHH didn't want to lose to Booker T".

 

Period.

 

21 seconds...9 seconds...fuck it...it shouldn't have been 3 seconds.

Face it had it been 3 seconds...you guys would've bitched that he "no-sold" the beating Booker T had laid on him, and covered him quickly, instead of selling Book's assault

[Guest tank_abbott]

He is no worse than most.People forget how bad HBK was with politcs,Hogan ,Austin,Thesz,Piper,Flair etc.

I don't think any of us here forgot about the politics HBK and Hogan used in the past. We know the whole "I lost my smile" incident, along with Montreal, Owen Hart being treated as second rate for HBK's buddy HHH to deal with, Bulldog and his ill sister being insulted at One Night Only in the UK, etc.

 

With Hogan, we know that he held guys like Savage, DiBiase, and Perfect down in the past in the WWF, and Hogan also knocked Flair out of WCW main-events in the mid-90's and Flair found himself feuding over the U.S. title with Konnan, along with Hogan's obvious holding down of younger talent.

 

In the cases of Flair and Austin, sometimes their politics were reasonable. During the NWA/pre-WCW days, Dusty Rhodes wanted Luger pushed to main-event status, but Flair said no because he felt Luger would turn out to be a flash-in-the-pan, and he did, as Luger's 90's career proved. Austin didn't want Jarrett pushed as a main-eventer in the WWF because Jarrett wasn't over enough to get a WWF title shot, and with the way his NWA World Heavyweight title reign's been going in TNA, Austin seemed to be in the right, as Jarrett proved to only be good enough as a high mid-carder. Jarrett's WCW World Heavyweight title reign also didn't excite people that much either.

your justifying your heros actions... the reason Luger was a flash in the pan was because he never got Flair's RUB, that a title win would've provided. Flair wouldn't job, just like HHH now. So in 5 years will RVD be a "flash in the pan"? Yes, because he wasn't given the rub.

 

Same with Jarrett. He was never given a meaningful victory over a top tier guy, like Austin, and so when they tried pushing him to the main event no one bought it as they'd seen him established as a mid carder.

[Guest Anglesault]

Isn't this topic called flame baiting? Or something like that.

How is that flame baiting? Just because Zsasz is trying to defend HHH he's flame baiting? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

After all, Bob does it all the time!

 

::runs around pumping fist in the air.::

 

He's right though.

[Guest Anglesault]

Who cares how long it took...

 

let's not forget that they were fighting over a fake title that HHH had made because the I-C title was beneath him (Goodbye IC Title) in a match that was built up as "black people aren't good enough to win" which HHH only took for Mania because all the big names were already doing something...and as Meltzer said on WOL Booker was supposed to win but that got changed because...and this is a quote..."HHH didn't want to lose to Booker T".

 

Period.

 

21 seconds...9 seconds...fuck it...it shouldn't have been 3 seconds.

Face it had it been 3 seconds...you guys would've bitched that he "no-sold" the beating Booker T had laid on him, and covered him quickly, instead of selling Book's assault

Hell yeah we would have bitched either way. He still beat him cleanly.

[Guest My Eyebrow is on fire]

I do not blame HHH at all for what he does - he's only looking out for his own future.

 

I also did not really blame Saddam Hussein for wanting to develop chemical and nuclear weapons. It was a move to empower himself further.

 

The point is - it's detrimental to the world to have a maniac with weapons of mass destruction...and it's detrimental to have a stale wrestler who cannot put on entertaining matches as the focus of your flagship show.

 

HHH as a human being gets mad props from me. However, he is one of the main factors why I don't watch RAW anymore - and I hate him for ruining, at one time, my favorite show on TV.

[Guest notJames]

When you're the top dog, you open yourself up to public opinion of the highest order. It's like when actors complain about paparazzi… you accepting the fame and fortune, so you have to deal with all the shit that comes with it.

 

Personally, I think he gets off on people talking shit about him. It's like manna for his ego. He probably chalks it all up to jealousy instead of dealing with the possibility that what everyone says about him is justified.

[Guest bob_barron]

The delayed pedigree cover was BULLSHIT.

 

I figured that was a good way to have an awesome near fall and when HHH crawled over and covered him I was like: the hell?

 

The problem with HHH's long title reign is that on one hand the guy who finally beats him will most likely become a huge fan favourite and be very over.

 

But the problem is that the guy who will end it can barely walk or hasn't drawn a dime in 5 years

[Guest notJames]

Seriously. Did you watch Nash barely amble down the ramp like an Oompa-Loompa? And they think he's the perfect guy to hold the fake championship?

 

On second thought…

[Guest AndrewTS]

Seriously. Did you watch Nash barely amble down the ramp like an Oompa-Loompa? And they think he's the perfect guy to hold the fake championship?

 

On second thought…

Well, Nash is white, fat, old, nearly crippled, and he was a World Champion in 95 or so.

 

He's natural for WWE to push.

[Guest Polish_Rifle]

It's suppose to be considered a RUN-in but I guess our next Fake World Champ can't take the risk of tearing another quad.