The wCw Belt

[Guest razazteca]

The WCW Title lost the honor & history it had the day the final Nitro finished.

 

And the IC belt was "won" in Brazil in a questionable tourny.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

Oh I agree that holding a title is a very important and meaningful thing to the wrestler that gets the privilidge... I am not arguing over that. I just think it's kind of silly to make fun of a belt, calling it "fake" when in reality people... it's all fake. HHH's title only means nothing to most of you because we all hate HHH. If HHH had the gifts of Kurt Angle or the popularity of Chris Benoit here in the IWC, we would not be referring to said belt as "fake" or arguing over it's legitimacy, when in fact... no real wrestling title is legitimate. Pro wrestling title lineages stopped meaning anything (as far as true legitimacy is concerned) when Gotch defeated Hackenschmidt at Comisky Park in the early 20th century

[Guest PORNFAQ]

There's a big difference between Patterson winning a fake and kayfabe'd tourney in Puerto Rico and HHH being handed the World Title on RAW.

 

The IC Title, regardless of how prestigious, is a secondary title. No big deal. They could've just handed the title to Patterson on TV and I'm sure no one would've cared. But at least they TRIED to cover their ass and SAY that it was won in competition, which means even then the bookers knew it was important to trick the fans into thinking that it the title was actually WON and not just GIVEN away.

 

HHH was GIVEN a WORLD title. That's just wrong, fake or not.

 

I don't know when you guys are gonna give up on this Johnson fella. Answering his questions or even reading them gives me a headache. His view on wrestling is severely skewed more to the "mark" side of things; there is no "smart" bone in his body. If he think the fingerpoke and Nash are good for business or that somehow Nash is gonna bring credibility to the HHH Vanity Title, then I say he deserves to be ignored.

 

And this wCw title lineage thing has been discussed OVER and OVER again here. The last version of WCW that we saw on TV and that WCW's World Title lineage is in Brock's SD! title. Simple as that. HHH just happens to hold the physical belt that once represented the wCw world title. How one can assume that they just "split" the lineages is absurd. You can't just go and decide to split lineages; it doesn't work that way. Jericho unified the titles and Brock holds that same unified title, whether they call it that now or not. Just because they came up with a new belt (or rather OLD belt on RAW) doesn't me that it's magically blessed or endowed with an old lineage. That belt started from scratch right there on RAW, even though it wasn't the first time we saw that physical title.

 

Don't get confused...physical belt =/= actual lineage. The RAW title's first champion was HHH, not Ric Flair, not Sting, not Ron Simmons...HHH.

 

I swear, it's idiotic thinking like this that WWE must absolutely adore and why they think they can pull fast ones on us constantly and believe that either we won't remember or don't think enough to figure anything out.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

There's a big difference between Patterson winning a fake and kayfabe'd tourney in Puerto Rico and HHH being handed the World Title on RAW.

 

The IC Title, regardless of how prestigious, is a secondary title. No big deal. They could've just handed the title to Patterson on TV and I'm sure no one would've cared. But at least they TRIED to cover their ass and SAY that it was won in competition, which means even then the bookers knew it was important to trick the fans into thinking that it the title was actually WON and not just GIVEN away.

 

HHH was GIVEN a WORLD title. That's just wrong, fake or not.

 

I don't know when you guys are gonna give up on this Johnson fella. Answering his questions or even reading them gives me a headache. His view on wrestling is severely skewed more to the "mark" side of things; there is no "smart" bone in his body. If he think the fingerpoke and Nash are good for business or that somehow Nash is gonna bring credibility to the HHH Vanity Title, then I say he deserves to be ignored.

 

And this wCw title lineage thing has been discussed OVER and OVER again here. The last version of WCW that we saw on TV and that WCW's World Title lineage is in Brock's SD! title. Simple as that. HHH just happens to hold the physical belt that once represented the wCw world title. How one can assume that they just "split" the lineages is absurd. You can't just go and decide to split lineages; it doesn't work that way. Jericho unified the titles and Brock holds that same unified title, whether they call it that now or not. Just because they came up with a new belt (or rather OLD belt on RAW) doesn't me that it's magically blessed or endowed with an old lineage. That belt started from scratch right there on RAW, even though it wasn't the first time we saw that physical title.

 

Don't get confused...physical belt =/= actual lineage. The RAW title's first champion was HHH, not Ric Flair, not Sting, not Ron Simmons...HHH.

 

I swear, it's idiotic thinking like this that WWE must absolutely adore and why they think they can pull fast ones on us constantly and believe that either we won't remember or don't think enough to figure anything out.

As I said before... you're trying to make everything seem too goddamned legitimate. I think it's been said over and over again that the average WWE fan is not a "smart mark" but a casual fan that couldn't give a flying fuck whether a scripted fake title is legitimately in line with the lineage of a company they hardly remember.

 

You say that "it's idiotic thinking like this that WWE must absolutely adore and why they think they can pull fast ones on us constantly and believe that either we won't remember or don't think enough to figure anything out" when, I'm sorry to break this to you, but no one else cares about this title bullshit. And the WWE knows this. And that's why they in turn don't care...

[Guest Youth N Asia]

The Raw belt is the World Heavyweight Title, the letters WWE don't even appear anywhere near it.

Incorrect, YNA.

 

The Big Gold Belt that HHH has isn't even the same title that Bischoff awarded him months ago. It was redone and if you take a good look at it, the WWE logo is at the top of it.

 

Dames

I actually meant no one slips in WWE champ or anything. Everything's "world" champ and "World" title

[Guest Imarkout4chrisdaniels]

One other thing that I used to know by heart, but somehow I cannot for the life of me think that I am absolutely correct on. I usually have a solid memory on things from wrestling's past, but this evades me. The old WCW Title was bent on the top. This is way before the WWE remake of the Title here recently. Now, my problem is......didn't WCW give Hogan that belt when Russo "shooted" on him at the PPV, then Booker T was sporting a new version of it (more yellow-looking than the gold, bent one). Do I have my facts skewed? Help, please?

[Guest EternallyLazy]

One other thing that I used to know by heart, but somehow I cannot for the life of me think that I am absolutely correct on. I usually have a solid memory on things from wrestling's past, but this evades me. The old WCW Title was bent on the top. This is way before the WWE remake of the Title here recently. Now, my problem is......didn't WCW give Hogan that belt when Russo "shooted" on him at the PPV, then Booker T was sporting a new version of it (more yellow-looking than the gold, bent one). Do I have my facts skewed? Help, please?

Yes you do... the newer yellower title was introduced a few weeks before the "screwjob." Later in the night, Booker T and Jarret wrestled for the older title with the bent top. A few weeks later, a new yellower belt was created again and given to Booker T

[Guest Imarkout4chrisdaniels]

Thanks for the true info, my man.

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

I don't know when you guys are gonna give up on this Johnson fella. Answering his questions or even reading them gives me a headache. His view on wrestling is severely skewed more to the "mark" side of things; there is no "smart" bone in his body. If he think the fingerpoke and Nash are good for business or that somehow Nash is gonna bring credibility to the HHH Vanity Title, then I say he deserves to be ignored.

Look man, just because I am a Nash fan and a fan of good storylines doesn't mean my opinion is any less important then yours. So before you tell people to ignore me you should be a little more open to other people's opinions.

 

And by the way if my post give you headaches don't read them.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

I hate to be the one guy saying "No" in a flood of people saying "yes" but guys, at the start of the Unforgiven PPV, they did a video package about the two belts and the Raw belt had video footage of Dusty, Flair, etc holding the belt.

 

So I think the Raw belt IS supposed to have the WCW history, although you're welcome to prove it to the contrary.

[Guest Sakura]

Yeah, that's what I wonder. Does anyone know exactly what Eric said that night?

 

 

Also I always figured the reason HHH was handed the title was like a heel thing. The idea being that they would play up how he was just handed it and how absurb that was. Then some big face like RVD or Booker would actually WIN it fairly and Ross would rejoice about how finally the champion has earned the right to be champ and all that stuff.

[Guest notJames]

I hate to be the one guy saying "No" in a flood of people saying "yes" but guys, at the start of the Unforgiven PPV, they did a video package about the two belts and the Raw belt had video footage of Dusty, Flair, etc holding the belt.

 

So I think the Raw belt IS supposed to have the WCW history, although you're welcome to prove it to the contrary.

"Is supposed to" and "is actually" are two different things.

 

HHH wants the RAW title to have the prestige and lineage of the wCw title, when it is merely a replica of the physical belt. HHH also wants the general audience to overlook the fact that he was handed a belt that has ties to nothing except his big fat ego, hence the lavish video package with Dusty, Flair, etc.

 

It's all smoke and mirrors.

[Guest Sakura]

That doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. If HHH has as much stroke as we think and he is obsessed with being WCW Champ then why did he allow himself to just be handed a title with no meaning? Why didn't he make sure he really did earn it by like going over in a tournament or something? Why didn't he make sure that it is the old WCW Title and like take it from Brock?

 

 

Also if the WWE says it has the lineage then it does. Even if it makes no sense.

[Guest notJames]

I take everything "the WW_ says" with a grain of salt. Actually, a lot of salt.

 

And remember, using the words "make", "sense", and "WW_" in the same thought can cause massive dain bramage.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

I hate to be the one guy saying "No" in a flood of people saying "yes" but guys, at the start of the Unforgiven PPV, they did a video package about the two belts and the Raw belt had video footage of Dusty, Flair, etc holding the belt.

 

So I think the Raw belt IS supposed to have the WCW history, although you're welcome to prove it to the contrary.

"Is supposed to" and "is actually" are two different things.

 

HHH wants the RAW title to have the prestige and lineage of the wCw title, when it is merely a replica of the physical belt. HHH also wants the general audience to overlook the fact that he was handed a belt that has ties to nothing except his big fat ego, hence the lavish video package with Dusty, Flair, etc.

 

It's all smoke and mirrors.

I very seriously doubt the average WWE fan even remembers that HHH was handed the title to begin with.

 

And to test my assumption on whether marks care about "title lineage" I asked 10 friends that I know that watch wrestling but don't follow it on the internet. I asked if they think any less of the WWE or HHH because of the RAW world title being handed to him... and the response from all 10 of them varied between "who cares?" to "... wrestling is fake. So aren't the titles fake too?" to "I don't like HHH because he's boring... but I could care less whether he was handed the title or not"

 

Now sure, that's just 10 people, and can't really judge what all marks think... But I think we can assume that the attitudes are similar.

 

"it's all smoke and mirrors"

 

Really? In professiona wrestling? Whodda thunk it...

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

So. the people telling me earlier in this thread that the RAW belt was a new belt and has no meaning was just stating an opinion of their take on it when actually I was right to begin with?

Damn I am more confused now then before. Somebody who has some proof please post it to settle this.

[Guest notJames]

It depends on who you ask.

 

WW_ canon recognizes HHH's belt as having ties with the wCw belt, which itself has a questionable lineage, depending on where you stand on the NWA/wCw International Gold Belt debate.

 

Smark logic recognizes HHH's belt as nothing but a trophy with no lineage beyond whatever story he and Steph concocted in the staff meeting 10 minutes before the RAW where Bishoff handed him the belt.

 

The mark perspective lost the whole debate at "hello", and proceeded to change the channel to whatever new reality game show was on Fox.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

It depends on who you ask.

 

WW_ canon recognizes HHH's belt as having ties with the wCw belt, which itself has a questionable lineage, depending on where you stand on the NWA/wCw International Gold Belt debate.

 

Smark logic recognizes HHH's belt as nothing but a trophy with no lineage beyond whatever story he and Steph concocted in the staff meeting 10 minutes before the RAW where Bishoff handed him the belt.

 

The mark perspective lost the whole debate at "hello", and proceeded to change the channel to whatever new reality game show was on Fox.

I think in the end, if you keep debating the lineage bs, you come off looking like a major dweeb

 

"Get a life will ya! It's just a tv show!" - William Shatner

[Guest newblood03]

hELL NO ONE REALLY KNOWS SO LETS STOP BITCHIN WWE HASNT EXPLAINED IT SO WE DONT KNOW

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

To me the WCW title died when the WWF bought WCW. I just can't look at any WCW title reigns after that as actual WCW title reigns. It was just another WWF title at that point.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

hELL NO ONE REALLY KNOWS SO LETS STOP BITCHIN WWE HASNT EXPLAINED IT SO WE DONT KNOW

You sound like a mark... let me poll you

 

Does the fact that HHH was handed the title, tarnish it's image, HHH's image, or WWE's image in any way what so ever? Do you honestly care?

[Guest Kid Kablam]

Yeah, that's what I wonder. Does anyone know exactly what Eric said that night?

 

 

Also I always figured the reason HHH was handed the title was like a heel thing. The idea being that they would play up how he was just handed it and how absurb that was. Then some big face like RVD or Booker would actually WIN it fairly and Ross would rejoice about how finally the champion has earned the right to be champ and all that stuff.

I agree with you here. THat's why I had no problem with the belt being given away, it's just that they've done an awful thing by disgracing it time after time. Also, that's no longer a concern, like Ross hasn't brought it up for the longest time that HHH didn't win the belt, so that part of the storyline as been dropped.

[Guest Cerebus]

This whole thread just goes to show how the bookers through together an angle that makes no sense just to feed Paul Levesque's freaking Idaho-sized ego...ugh.

[Guest Kid Kablam]

It depends on who you ask.

 

WW_ canon recognizes HHH's belt as having ties with the wCw belt, which itself has a questionable lineage, depending on where you stand on the NWA/wCw International Gold Belt debate.

 

Smark logic recognizes HHH's belt as nothing but a trophy with no lineage beyond whatever story he and Steph concocted in the staff meeting 10 minutes before the RAW where Bishoff handed him the belt.

 

The mark perspective lost the whole debate at "hello", and proceeded to change the channel to whatever new reality game show was on Fox.

I think in the end, if you keep debating the lineage bs, you come off looking like a major dweeb

 

"Get a life will ya! It's just a tv show!" - William Shatner

You know, people keep bringing up that Shatner quote, but Shatner hasn't been able to get past that TV show either. I mean, the man thinks he's a legitimate personality because of it.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

And what's wrong with critically discussing a TV show anyway?

[Guest Sakura]

This whole thread just goes to show how the bookers through together an angle that makes no sense just to feed Paul Levesque's freaking Idaho-sized ego...ugh.

This stuff I also don't understand. How was creating a belt just to feed his ego? Seems like the real purpose was to have seperate champions for each brand, and they had just chosen Crips as the first champ.

 

I wonder how much of this "fake world title" stuff would have come about had Jericho been the first person to be it and how much of this will disapear when/if someone not in the kliq wins it.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

HHH wants the RAW title to have the prestige and lineage of the wCw title, when it is merely a replica of the physical belt. HHH also wants the general audience to overlook the fact that he was handed a belt that has ties to nothing except his big fat ego, hence the lavish video package with Dusty, Flair, etc.

So in other words, EternallyLazy is right. You just refuse to acknowledge it because you don't like HHH.

 

Fine. I shall bring out proof in a minute. Let me hook up my scanner.

[Guest the pinjockey]

And what's wrong with critically discussing a TV show anyway?

An add on to that question what is wrong with criticizing the lack of continuity in a show (in wrestling continuity = lineage)?

 

Take another show for example. Let's look at the show Scrubs. They work in a hospital. If next season they started in a new location with the same characters and pretended they never worked in a hospital you don't think fans of that show would be pissed?

 

Ignoring or mixing up histories of main characters (belts, the belt should be a character in wrestling, not a prop, it should be able to breath life into storylines and be big enough into itself to make people superstars, NOT A PROP) is just plain bad writing.

[Guest the pinjockey]

I wonder how much of this "fake world title" stuff would have come about had Jericho been the first person to be it and how much of this will disapear when/if someone not in the kliq wins it.

I will just past my response from a different thread to this same exact point

 

I am a Jericho mark, and would be happy if he had the belt because it means he is getting some sort of push, but he wouldn't be the champion. The belt would still be nothing compared to the real belt.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

This whole thread just goes to show how the bookers through together an angle that makes no sense just to feed Paul Levesque's freaking Idaho-sized ego...ugh.

This stuff I also don't understand. How was creating a belt just to feed his ego? Seems like the real purpose was to have seperate champions for each brand, and they had just chosen Crips as the first champ.

 

I wonder how much of this "fake world title" stuff would have come about had Jericho been the first person to be it and how much of this will disapear when/if someone not in the kliq wins it.

The only reason I see it as fake is because they tried to push the WCW/NWA lineage on us when HHH was first given the title and those belts are dead.

 

They even had a Confidential about past "World Title" holders in WCW and NWA.

 

Plus I never liked the idea of just handing it to someone, but then again that's how the IC title started.