Guest Redhawk Report post Posted April 29, 2003 I read a report that The Rock was upset with Goldberg, partly because Goldberg isn't receptive to suggestions and doesn't want to improve on his in-ring skills. Now, even if this is true, can't you kind of see Goldberg's position? If you can't, I still think this highlights a bigger WWE problem: Where has being a good worker or improving in-ring skills gotten anyone in WWE recently? Why would any wrestler feel motivated to improve in the ring when it's so obvious that wrestling ability doesn't matter when it comes to getting pushed. It's all about look, name recognition, charisma and politics...so why would any wrestler feel motivated to improve his in-ring skills? What's the reward? Look at the roster now. Triple H is nowhere near the worker he used to be, yet he's basically ran RAW since January of 2002 due to politics, name recognition, look and charisma. The company chose Brock Lesnar as one of the guys who'd carry them in the 21st century mostly on look, not wrestling ability. In addition, Hulk Hogan, Big Show, A-Train, Vince McMahon, Scott Steiner, Shawn Michaels, Nathan Jones and Kevin Nash among others have been pushed over dozens of better workers due to their look, name recognition, charisma and/or politics. Now look at the wrestlers who are generally considered great in-ring workers: Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, Hurricane, etc. What are they doing? Where have their ring skills taken them? Those guys are thrown out there to put on great matches against the same handful of guys in feuds and angles that aren't ever going anywhere. And after they get over from doing that? They're used to put over the real main eventers later on, such as Steiner, Nash, Show, etc. Yeah you can call me a Goldberg mark, but in this latest Goldberg/Rock case, I actually think the guy is pretty smart if he can already see that wrestling doesn't matter in WWE. If it did, your main event scene would look completely different. As it is, wrestling is only a luxury now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted April 29, 2003 Wrestling doesn't matter to Vince but it does matter to the fans. And what matters to the fans (should) matter to Vince. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0 Report post Posted April 29, 2003 Theres a difference between being a bad worker and being dangerous, which is what rocky implied Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rendclaw 0 Report post Posted April 29, 2003 improving your in-ring skills work two-fold. First it makes you look better on both offense and defense (taking bumps) and it helps to prevent you from injuring someone in the ring, not to *even* mention injuring yourself. Second, in the case of Goldberg, he's already (a little bit) over, so if he improved himself to say, Brock's level (say what you will about him being a hoss, but he does have an amateur wrestling background from Minnesota, along with Shelton Benjamin) in my mind if he gave the fans a taste of something new, exciting and just as intense as he seems to always be, it would get him even more over. an improved ring product is a small, but important step Vince and the boys would have to take if they want to save this slowly sinking ship, though it doesn't appear that they want to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted April 29, 2003 Did'nt Matt Hardy improve his ring skills when he became Version 1? If getting to the Main Event only took a good look and hollywood quality acting skills than Golddust should of been on top by now. Golddust is the #1 comedian in the company and was responsible for getting Booker T over in 2002, so when will the Real Goldie get rewarded? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted April 29, 2003 All WWE wrestlers should be worried about improving their ring skills so they won't hurt anyone. Plus with the storylines being bad the in ring work has to make up for it. If the matches are bad and the storylines are bad then what is there? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted April 30, 2003 Plus with the storylines being bad the in ring work has to make up for it. If the matches are bad and the storylines are bad then what is there? USA Up All Nite Movie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Redhawk Report post Posted April 30, 2003 If getting to the Main Event only took a good look and hollywood quality acting skills than Golddust should of been on top by now. Golddust is the #1 comedian in the company and was responsible for getting Booker T over in 2002, so when will the Real Goldie get rewarded? 1) You also have to consider things like politics and name recognition. Goldust isn't known as a star, he's just known as a guy. 2) He doesn't have a good look, necessarily. He look strange, but that's not the kind of "unique" look they're going to push. He's just a comedy character. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted April 30, 2003 Even with the look you still need decent enough ring skills to be a main eventer or the fans will shit all over you like they did to Goldberg at Backlash with the "Goldberg sucks" chants and boos and like they did to Steiner at the Rumble and No Way Out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Human Fly Report post Posted April 30, 2003 Also, look at what happened to Steiner when he was exposed for being the worker that he is. It already happened to Goldberg somewhat. He had better improve if he wants to stay at the top. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted April 30, 2003 1. Goldust may not look like Goldberg but Goldust pure acting ability and charisma should of given him a push further than tag team division. 2. Goldust does have a look...........if Kane can get a title shot using a similar costume than Goldust deserves the same. Goldust is a great comedy character but it can grow to something of greater depth. If Robin Williams can play dramatic roles and get critical accliam for it so can Dustin Runnels. He has pure talent which very few have in the business. WWE could progress this studdering idiot character into a mean SOB hell bent of revenge similiar to the orginal Mankind character with Goldust going crazy in and out of the ring looking to destroy his opponet and making said opponet fear for his life. Or he could play evil pratical jokes on wrestlers that actually hurt them instead of a good nature joke, such as Goldust could pretend to cover for Test but behind his back he could be taking Stacy to Space Mountain and show GTV footage to shove it in his face. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Redhawk Report post Posted April 30, 2003 Even with the look you still need decent enough ring skills to be a main eventer or the fans will shit all over you like they did to Goldberg at Backlash with the "Goldberg sucks" chants and boos and like they did to Steiner at the Rumble and No Way Out. Do you really, though? I think one thing hampering Goldberg and Steiner is that they were WCW guys who were main eventing in their first WWE PPV. The automatic assumption is that if this new guy got shot right to a title match, he'd better be good. The expectations are higher Contrast that with, say, The Undertaker. He's been in his fair share of suck-ass main events over the past 3 years yet he's never been knocked down to the midcard. He sucks in the ring now but the fans have more tolerance for him because they've been raised on him. Home-grown guys get more leeway with the fans and the front office than free agents. So my main point here is while being truly horrid in the ring can get a guy demoted from the main event or stop him from ever getting there, if they really want to push you all you have to be is "watchable" in the ring as long as you have the other main-event qualities. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted April 30, 2003 Taker may still get good pops, but he didn't draw flies as champ so maybe his sucky wrestling did hurt him. The fans booed Steiner cause he was stinking up the joint. When he's not wrestling he still get's pops. When he starts sucking is when he gets booed. So it sounds to me like the fans don't like sucky wrestling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted April 30, 2003 I read a report that The Rock was upset with Goldberg, partly because Goldberg isn't receptive to suggestions and doesn't want to improve on his in-ring skills. Now, even if this is true, can't you kind of see Goldberg's position? If you can't, I still think this highlights a bigger WWE problem: Where has being a good worker or improving in-ring skills gotten anyone in WWE recently? Why would any wrestler feel motivated to improve in the ring when it's so obvious that wrestling ability doesn't matter when it comes to getting pushed. It's all about look, name recognition, charisma and politics...so why would any wrestler feel motivated to improve his in-ring skills? What's the reward? Look at the roster now. Triple H is nowhere near the worker he used to be, yet he's basically ran RAW since January of 2002 due to politics, name recognition, look and charisma. The company chose Brock Lesnar as one of the guys who'd carry them in the 21st century mostly on look, not wrestling ability. In addition, Hulk Hogan, Big Show, A-Train, Vince McMahon, Scott Steiner, Shawn Michaels, Nathan Jones and Kevin Nash among others have been pushed over dozens of better workers due to their look, name recognition, charisma and/or politics. Now look at the wrestlers who are generally considered great in-ring workers: Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, Hurricane, etc. What are they doing? Where have their ring skills taken them? Those guys are thrown out there to put on great matches against the same handful of guys in feuds and angles that aren't ever going anywhere. And after they get over from doing that? They're used to put over the real main eventers later on, such as Steiner, Nash, Show, etc. Yeah you can call me a Goldberg mark, but in this latest Goldberg/Rock case, I actually think the guy is pretty smart if he can already see that wrestling doesn't matter in WWE. If it did, your main event scene would look completely different. As it is, wrestling is only a luxury now. There is a guy named Kurt Angle, remember him? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
syxx2001 0 Report post Posted April 30, 2003 charisma, looks, character. his wrestling is only a bonus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Trivia247 Report post Posted April 30, 2003 If getting to the Main Event only took a good look and hollywood quality acting skills than Golddust should of been on top by now. Golddust is the #1 comedian in the company and was responsible for getting Booker T over in 2002, so when will the Real Goldie get rewarded? 1) You also have to consider things like politics and name recognition. Goldust isn't known as a star, he's just known as a guy. 2) He doesn't have a good look, necessarily. He look strange, but that's not the kind of "unique" look they're going to push. He's just a comedy character. now don't get on goldies case... Goldust has been around for pretty much a Decade plus himself and he is always strives to be just a decent wrestler. This past return to the WWE I feel is Goldust's Best Stint in the WWE in terms of Fan reactions, and his condition is still pretty good. Plus if Dustin can hang with a RVD in his first singles PPV match back at his age that ain't bad. Goldust as a character wrestler will probably be destined to be just a midcarder, but his character antics helps to get himself, whomever he is with or against over, and pretty much gets people laugh. Which helps the product in the longrun. Goldust is a good guy in me book. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Trivia247 Report post Posted April 30, 2003 Oh BTW.... Fuck Goldberg in a pool of Imported Water since he is too Big and Important to Remember how to fucking Wrestle! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AlwaysPissedOff Report post Posted April 30, 2003 Eh, Angle got his push because he started with cheap heat and got over in a short amount of time. Hell, he was practically being carried throughout 2000 and most of 2001 before he started grasping how things went. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted April 30, 2003 You know this is all kind of sad in a way. That fans nowdays don't care about wrestling skill on a wrestling show. There are people all over the country and other countries going to indy shows and other feds because they like the good wrestling. Why aren't they at the WWE shows? Maybe they're sick of the lack of good wrestling? Some of them are at the shows, but a lot of them aren't or just get drowned out by the rest of the fans at the shows. Maybe it's time WWE started playing somewhat to a new portion of their audience. And before you tell me smarks are a minority I'm not talking about Smarks in general. I'm talking about fans of good wrestling. Maybe that's a factor of why so many fans are not coming to WWE shows anymore? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NoSelfWorth Report post Posted April 30, 2003 At the end of the day, Vince runs a wrestling promotion, and a wrestling promotion should feature wrestlers wrestling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Trivia247 Report post Posted April 30, 2003 You know this is all kind of sad in a way. That fans nowdays don't care about wrestling skill on a wrestling show. There are people all over the country and other countries going to indy shows and other feds because they like the good wrestling. Why aren't they at the WWE shows? Maybe they're sick of the lack of good wrestling? Some of them are at the shows, but a lot of them aren't or just get drowned out by the rest of the fans at the shows. Maybe it's time WWE started playing somewhat to a new portion of their audience. And before you tell me smarks are a minority I'm not talking about Smarks in general. I'm talking about fans of good wrestling. Maybe that's a factor of why so many fans are not coming to WWE shows anymore? well watching a goood crisp Wrestling Sequence doesn't have to be stricted restricted to smarks. seeing good Wrestling great spots and variety of moves is universal. then you got the fans who like the character stuff, the mic time, the jokes and crap. and then you got the more oldschool fans who watch wrestling both in the skill and for the Story telling entertainment it use to hold. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted April 30, 2003 At the end of the day, Vince runs a wrestling promotion, and a wrestling promotion should feature wrestlers wrestling. Yes. And since WWE has a problem putting out good storylines right now they need good wrestling to fall back on. Plus the fudamental point to a good wrestling show is combining good wrestling, good characters, and good storylines. If a good storyline leads up to a horrible match it sucks all the fun out of that feud. If a horrible storyline leads up to a great match atleast you can enjoy the good match and can watch that match alone as a stand alone match somewhere down the line and not care about the storyline, but even then it's not good to have bad storylines. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted April 30, 2003 There are people all over the country and other countries going to indy shows and other feds because they like the good wrestling. Why aren't they at the WWE shows there is a big difference between a indy show and WWE. Indy shows are 90% wrestling while WWE is maybe 30% wrestling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest newblood03 Report post Posted April 30, 2003 hell i know they aint tryin to damn hard to improve if they are book in brock and big show for JD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted April 30, 2003 There are still a lot of fans out there who like good wrestling. And indy feds help build an appreciation of good wrestling...well atleast the better indy feds do. That's why I wish NWA:TNA would get a tv deal or ROH would grow bigger and get all they need to go national. Someday maybe, but that's way too far off for ROH. Maybe someone with a lot of money should help ROH get off the ground and get bigger? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Trivia247 Report post Posted April 30, 2003 There are people all over the country and other countries going to indy shows and other feds because they like the good wrestling. Why aren't they at the WWE shows there is a big difference between a indy show and WWE. Indy shows are 90% wrestling while WWE is maybe 30% wrestling. and majority of the Indi's don't got TV exposure even Locally so they Have to shoulder all their efforts into the Wrestling skill than storyline. I have a friend who works for ECCW wrestling name of the White Tiger, his organization gets local exposure and coverage from canada and like Washington state since thats the territory they tour (ECCW i a off shoot of NWA North West) they do some storyline because they got the tv public as well as those who go to their matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted April 30, 2003 Even indy promotions with local tv have a ratio that is more wrestling based than storyline/backstage/on location segments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Redhawk Report post Posted April 30, 2003 Yet even the Indys can't resist doing WWE-style storylines, with Evil Owners and T & A and stuff. Wrestling isn't everything. If the next four RAWs were just 2 hours of straight wrestling, with only short pre-match promos and no skits, fans would be turned off. Like someone said earlier, you have to have a balance. That said, just better wrestling wouldn't improve business. Better angles and better creativity as far as who the main eventers are and such would improve business. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NoSelfWorth Report post Posted April 30, 2003 It's always important to have good wrestling, because when a fad dies, the quality of the wrestling is what you have to fall back on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted April 30, 2003 The problem is that not every wrestler has the ability to be a good actor or able to do a promo other than "I will destroy in the ring". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
