Benoit vs. Malenko

[Guest Banky]

and WHY??

 

I want all of you smark experts who cream all over Benoit, and give no love to Malenko, to enlighten Uncle Banky as to why Chris Benoit is THAT much better than Dean. Please. Show your supreme wrestling knowledge.

[Guest Zack Malibu]

Personally, I think they're equal. I just think Benoit gets more love because he's more of a high-risk wrestler, compared to Dean's matwork.

 

I've always liked them evenly though.

[Guest JHawk]

Zack basically said exactly what I was going to.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Malenko always was a hell of a wrestler and by taking a look at his students (esp. Noble and Molly) it is obvious he's a great trainer.

 

However, I think Malenko being retired has a lot to do with it.

 

Dean didn't get that much attention as an active wrestler in WWE, either. However, if he had stuck around longer he probably would be more renowned. I always thought he was awesome (particularly any of his matches with Eddy).

[B. Brian Brunzell 0]

I gotta say that, in my opinion, TS summed it up. I've always looked at them as equals, but as a personal favorite, I've always liked Benoit more.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

LOL. If anyone thinks Benoit and Malenko are equals, all they have to do is watch some of the following stuff:

 

Watch any Benoit v Liger, Otani, Kanemoto, or Samurai. Then compare them to Malenko's matches with those 4 guys. No comparison at all.

 

Malenko works the mat with pedestrian holds while paying no attention to the audience what so ever.

 

Benoit works tighter and smarter matches overall. Well, that is until he fell under the Angle influence and started working the Smackdown Spot Fu style.

 

Tim

[Guest Lightning Flik]

As TC said what I was about to, I'll just agree with him.

 

Although, I give the nod to Benoit. As he's from my hometown and I've always been a fan of the home town guys.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Benoit. Don't get me wrong, I love Dean and all, but Benoit brings too much intensity to the right, he's way more fun to watch.

 

And these days you can't go by just wrestling, Benoit has that little extra that puts him over.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Personally, I think they're equal. I just think Benoit gets more love because he's more of a high-risk wrestler, compared to Dean's matwork.

 

I've always liked them evenly though.

Besides the Diving Headbutt of Supreme Stupidity Which Misses 60% of the time, what "high risk" moves does Benoit use?

 

Although I do agree Benoit is more well-rounded. Plus mat-work is always going to be somewhat yawned on by marks, especially in big arenas where you can hardly tell what is going on in the ring when it is on the mat (see Angle-Lesnar at WM for instance).

 

However, I recently saw Dean-Eddy in ECW (DVD) and Dean was able to turn up the intensity when he needed to. Of course, when the braindead spot-loving ECW mutants chant "booooooring" at you you're kinda pressured into it. However, that reaction probably isn't much different than what he'd have gotten in WWE for the same match.

[Guest Banky]

I really don't see how Malenko does pedestrian holds that pay no attention to the audience? I felt that Malenko has always done different moves to switch it up, and draw the crowd into his matches. His unique ground style, for NA atleast, was always something that made him a treat to watch. I've just always seen people saw Benoit is the greatest NA wrestler ever, with Malenko getting no votes. I just can't bring myself to agree. As a pure wrestler, I've always considred Malenko better.

[The Dames 0]

Banky, while Benoit is said to have no mic skills, he definitely has more in-ring charisma than Benoit. Hell, Malenko was called "the Ice Man" because he showed so little emotion.

 

I could get into Malenko as a fan, but not behind him because he didn't move me at all. It took Jericho pulling out every cheap heel tactic in the book to pull out a big face pop for Malenko and he still didn't do anything with it.

 

Benoit, like I said, has in-ring charisma. He shows a Hell of a lot more emotion, even with his selling and does play to the crowd occasionally. The cutthroat sign he gives to the crowd before the head BUTT is an example.

 

Dames

[Guest Coffey]

I don't think that I can really answer the question. I'm a bigger fan of leg work than shoulder/arm work. Granted Dean Malenko also would work over the back to set up for the Texas Cloverleaf. Chris Benoit is good at incorporating new, innovative sequences that fit into his psychology of the match. For example, at SummerSlam last year, against Rob Van Dam, Benoit did Rolling Northern Light Suplexes. Of course, he hooked the arm Anderson style while doing it as well so that he could target RVD's shoulder more to set up the Crippler Crossface.

 

I'm not really a fan of the Swandive Headbutt, however I am a fan of the Dragon Suplex and Rolling German Suplexes. I was a big fan of Dean Malenko's Tiger Bomb as well...

 

I guess I'm a fan of both. That's pretty much the way most people seem to appear towards the subject around these parts.

[Guest ShooterJay]

On a related note, does anyone know if Malenko still trains? If he does, he's my top choice for wrestling training in a couple of years.

[Guest AndrewTS]

On a related note, does anyone know if Malenko still trains? If he does, he's my top choice for wrestling training in a couple of years.

He's a road agent according to my WWE Preview 2003 mag, so probably not at the moment, but they'd be wise to use him as one.

[Guest Your Olympic Hero]

Benoit

[Guest Goodear]

I much prefer Dean Malenko (and Eddie Guerrero) actually to Benoit right now based on a few of my style preferences.

 

Firstly, Malenko works a more concentrated and less "I must work in spots 1 through 3" sort of style than Benoit does and gells a lot better with the smaller sub-200 pound WCW cruiserweights than Benoit ever did. Touching on Tim's comments, Benoit may have worked better with those guys than Dean did... but Dean pulled better things out of Rey, Kidman, Scott Taylor and Disco Inferno (of all people) than Benoit did because Dean's character allowed a lot more back and forth than with smaller men than Benoit's did.

 

And while Dean wasn't exactly Mr. Personality in a ring and I would probably place Benoit above him in that respect, Malenko did a lot of the same subtle things that say... a Tully Blanchard would do, rather than having a signature "spot signal". You can see this sort of thing a lot more in his tag matches than in his singles work though.

[Guest razazteca]

Dean Malenko gets no love because he is not only a vanilla midget he is an albino maniquien in respects to personality. Not even Jericho could get a reaction out of Dean during the Stinko Malenko feud. Also the attempt to make Dean into secret agent man in WWE went nowhere.

 

When it comes to the matches Dean Malenko is truely the man of 1000 armbars errr moves. Dean was one of the key if not the most important wrestlers of WCW when they decided to push the CW division, if it was not for the classic matches vs Rey Mysterio Jr the division would of died quickly. Dean Malenko is more or less a role player, he makes his opponets look good in matches whether it be in singles or tag team competition. Dean was a key player as a member of the 4 Horsemen and Triple Threat as he brought the workrate while letting others do the talking as a role player should.

[Guest MaxPower27]

TS- Malenko didn't train Noble, at first anyway. Noble was originally trained by Bill Weaver.

[Guest XdojimeX]

Um, body of work anyone? I've always liked Deano, he was always an enjoyable (if a bit one-dimensional) worker and somewhat of a throwback. These guys we'll always be linked at the hip to some degree because they worked everywhere together but he's never been in Benoit's league. Or Guerrero's. Always a notch or two below.

 

"gells a lot better with the smaller sub-200 pound WCW cruiserweights than Benoit ever did. Touching on Tim's comments, Benoit may have worked better with those guys than Dean did..."

 

And you can stop right there. Dean stood out as an anchor of WCW's cruiserweight division because he was big fish in small pond. Benoit was pushed primarily as a heavyweight. He adapted admirably with lesser talent to work with while Dean always struggled working US heavy style. On the flip side Chris was at or near the top of the premier Junior division in the business for over 5 years, while Dean remained a mid-level role player among the same talent base. Not really much of a comparison.

[Guest Banky]

Dean Malenko gets no love because he is not only a vanilla midget he is an albino maniquien in respects to personality. Not even Jericho could get a reaction out of Dean during the Stinko Malenko feud. Also the attempt to make Dean into secret agent man in WWE went nowhere.

 

When it comes to the matches Dean Malenko is truely the man of 1000 armbars errr moves. Dean was one of the key if not the most important wrestlers of WCW when they decided to push the CW division, if it was not for the classic matches vs Rey Mysterio Jr the division would of died quickly. Dean Malenko is more or less a role player, he makes his opponets look good in matches whether it be in singles or tag team competition. Dean was a key player as a member of the 4 Horsemen and Triple Threat as he brought the workrate while letting others do the talking as a role player should.

What are you talking about? Malenko was more over in WCW than Benoit was. He was getting unreal reactions when facing Jericho and Guerrero. The Iceman gimmick didn't describe his blandness. He was far from bland in the ring, as he allowed his large move-set and intense attitude do the talking. I always saw the Iceman gimmick as more to do with him only caring about wrestling, and getting the victory. Not about him lacking an sort of personality. Look at BATB 96 against Mysterio. It was supposed to be Rey's coming out party, but the fans popped like crazy when Malenko beat the ever-living piss out of him, then put his feet on the ropes to ensure the victory. He didn't need to rely on taunts or yelling at the crowd - he let his actions do the talking.

 

Malenko didn't depend on only arm bars, or leg bars. I really can't except anyone's facts here, they just don't hold much water. Tim made a good point about Benoit's superior matches with fairly good Puro wrestlers, while Goodear made an extremely good point that Malenko carried dead-wood (Scott Taylor, Disco Inferno) to qaulity matches.

 

No matter what anyone says, Malenko's wrestling got him over during the hey-day of the nWo. Its beyond me how the smarky smark mentality has made it the unspoken gospel that Benoit was much better.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"but Dean pulled better things out of Rey, Kidman, Scott Taylor and Disco Inferno (of all people) than Benoit did because Dean's character allowed a lot more back and forth than with smaller men than Benoit's did."

 

Rey?

 

Anyone who thinks the Rey series from 1996 was good hasn't seen enough of Rey, enough of Lucha, enough of Juve (in his prime), and wrestling in general.

 

Kidman?

 

I can't remember one Malenko v Kidman match, not to mention one good one.

 

Scott Taylor?

 

Benoit never worked with him. If you are talking about the Backlash 2000 match, that was nothing more than Nitro 1996-1998 material.

 

Disco?

 

The BATB 1996 was okay. The opener on that show was better (Rey v Psic) and that match wasn't even close to what those two were doing in Mexico.

 

Calling Malenko awesome on the mat is an insult to Volk Han, Kiyoshi Tamura, Nobuhiko Takada, and Kazuo Yamazaki, not to mention NJPW Jrs in 1996 who did it 100x better and the whole UWF styles.

 

Tim

[Guest razazteca]

Bad humor attempt by me.

 

In WCW Malenko was a near godlike worker in the CW division but not being able to do interviews other than "the belt is all I care for" did nothing for his personality outside the ring. Deano became the Tully Blandard character in the new 4 Horsemen in which he tagged with Benoit often against opponets they had history with (Rey & Kidman or Raven). When Dean Malenko ventured out of the CW division to work in the tag division which he did his role well as the "Silient but Deadly" enforcer.

 

Benoit was over in the midcard as he was in a feud vs Raven vs DDP and Booker T for the TV title and who can forget the bathroom brawl vs Sullivan and the angle with "Woman" Nancy.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"Tim made a good point about Benoit's superior matches with fairly good Puro wrestlers, while Goodear made an extremely good point that Malenko carried dead-wood (Scott Taylor, Disco Inferno) to qaulity matches."

 

Watch Benoit's matches on Thunder and WCW Saturday Night and watch him carry people either worse than those or not over at all and work some decent stuff with them.

 

I don't get the Malenko love.

 

Tim

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"Deano became the Tully Blandard character in the new 4 Horsemen in which he tagged with Benoit often against opponets they had history with (Rey & Kidman or Raven)."

 

Nah, if Malenko was the Tully of the group, he would have had excellent mic skills and would have been a above average tag worker. Calling Malenko Tully is an insult to Blanchard.

 

I have seen 1 match where Malenko really used passion and emotion to help advance the match. 4/11/99 Benoit/Malenko v Saturn/Raven. Everything else that he got heat for was because of his opponent or because he was doing something different than what was the fad during the time.

 

Tim

[Guest Banky]

I don't get the Malenko love.

By the same token, I don't get the Malenko hate.

[Guest razazteca]

Well Dean always looked good in tag matches and was a singles champ (Cruiserweight). Tully always looked good in tag matches and was singles champ. This arguement is the same as the Chris Benoit one, Dean has no interview skills but had the workrate equal to or better than the other person.

 

Tully vs Magnum TA = great feud

Dean vs Rey = great feud

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I like Malenkos execution of moves more than Benoits - Dean is so smooth, so very very smooth. But Benoit is way better overall, it's no contest. Benoits best matches are heads and shoulders above Deans. Benoit has been a top rated worker for a decade. Benoit has been in some of ECW's, New Japans, WWE's, and WCW's best matches.

 

In the past week I've watched Dean vs. Rey from GAB 96 and Dean vs. Armstrong Slamboree 96 and Dean just does his thing and doesn't care about the crowd a single bit. He works on Reys arm and the crowd yawns, he continues to work on it and the crowd continues to yawn - does he change his game plan? Nope. It was a good match though, mainly because of Rey.

[Guest Banky]

Rey didn't do anything but bounce around the place for Dean during their GAR match. I doubt we were watching the same match (ha.ha) because the crowd wasn't nearly as bored as you made them out to be. They were into the match, and even more into the ending sequence.

[Guest NoSelfWorth]

I like both men equally, and don't see why I should place one above the other.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Terrific. The question is who is better though? I like early 1990's Sting a hell of a lot more than 1989 Flair. I may like Sting better, but Flair was the better worker during th eperiods mentioned, for the most part.

 

Tim, noting Sting/Vader (7/92, 12/92, and 2/93 KILL 12/93 Flair/Vader)