Guest Anglesault Report post Posted May 8, 2003 And you know who you are. You like to put a positive spin on everything the WWF does and sometimes down right refuse to admit that they made a huge mistake. This leads to a lot of bitching, sometimes all over the board. So, why not confine it to one thread? Here's how it would work. After an enormous fck up by the WWF, someone would ask for the apologists opinion on it. And they could explain why this was a good thing and how were all to negative. First on the list, Raw. Namely, the boring 15 minute brawl. Please, oh please, tell me how that was good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CanadianChick Report post Posted May 8, 2003 First on the list, Raw. Namely, the boring 15 minute brawl. Please, oh please, tell me how that was good. The crowd being totally against Nash, chanting "Diesel sucks" was funny. And Jericho getting cheered for low blowing Nash was gold too. Other than that, I got nothing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Downhome Report post Posted May 8, 2003 That wasn't good, even I despised that with all of my being. I'm usually ok with brawls as long as they are ok, and fuck, I even enjoyed Vince/Hogan. This was just trash, and was just pointless. As many have said, it's painfully obvious that Nash can not get around hardly anymore at all, he has no business doing what he is doing anymore. I don't think I've seen him run once since he's been back. If it's time for anyone to retire from active inring action, it's him. I don't see how anyone could have enjoyed that crap. It was 15 minutes long, and 14 minutes too long. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted May 8, 2003 Well then the naysayers should have to do the same thing...which means thesmartmarks would consist of two topics only. no plz. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted May 8, 2003 It was good because i had the runs from Taco Bell and it was put on at the perfect time otherwise i would have missed some GOOD action Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Downhome Report post Posted May 8, 2003 Well then the naysayers should have to do the same thing...which means thesmartmarks would consist of two topics only. no plz. I agree 100%. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheBostonStrangler Report post Posted May 8, 2003 I try to defend the WWE when possible, but that brawl killed one of the hottest RAW crowds I've ever seen (it took RAW's two biggest names, Austin and Goldberg, to bring them back to life), it exposed HHH as way past his prime and Nash as perhaps the worst worker on the roster (at least Big Show knows a few moves), and it was just plain bad. There's absolutely no way to explain how that segment did anything for either man. Cut it to a three minute brawl, and maybe there's some merit as a basic lead-in to their "big money PPV main-event", but they sure as hell didn't need 10 minutes for that shitfest. Give Booker vs. Storm the 10 minutes, and let Nash/HHH have the three minutes that Booker and Storm ended up getting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Downhome Report post Posted May 8, 2003 I was in awe as it was happening, I couldn't believe it was going on for so long. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted May 8, 2003 15 minutes for a brawl that got Nash blown up about 45 seconds into.........He couldn't even get up without using the ropes. The guy can't run. It's amazing sometimes cause it's like WWE picks the worst fuckin workers to push. Surely Vince can't be this freakin blind Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted May 8, 2003 Hell with this noise. The whole freaking show from start to finish sucked ass and accomplished absolutely nothing. If you want to blow your loads over hating Triple H and Nash fine, but they're a SYMPTOM. The desease is an entirely crappy show where there is nothing... NOTHING ... worth your time. The wrestling stinks, the writing stinks, the pacing stinks.... the whole show stinks. And if Triple H had a heart attack tomarrow, the show would not be any better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Human Fly Report post Posted May 8, 2003 I was in awe as it was happening, I couldn't believe it was going on for so long. I went through 3 feelings during the brawl. For the first 1/3 I was pissed, the next 1/3 I was shocked that it was going so long and even though the crowd was hating it they kept going, the next 1/3 I found it to be humorous because this was so bad I could hear the buy rate for the PPV swirling down the john. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RedJed Report post Posted May 8, 2003 I try to defend the WWE when possible, but that brawl killed one of the hottest RAW crowds I've ever seen (it took RAW's two biggest names, Austin and Goldberg, to bring them back to life), it exposed HHH as way past his prime and Nash as perhaps the worst worker on the roster (at least Big Show knows a few moves), and it was just plain bad. There's absolutely no way to explain how that segment did anything for either man. Cut it to a three minute brawl, and maybe there's some merit as a basic lead-in to their "big money PPV main-event", but they sure as hell didn't need 10 minutes for that shitfest. Give Booker vs. Storm the 10 minutes, and let Nash/HHH have the three minutes that Booker and Storm ended up getting. Ummm from what I saw the crowd wasnt nearly as on the edge of their seats for the first Goldberg-Austin confrontation as you would have thought.......to me they were still pretty damn dead for that, even. Of course some of the blame has to be put on the actual booking of THAT segment too.........they made a surefire buzz out of a first Goldberg-Austin segment into a fucking pointless thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RedJed Report post Posted May 8, 2003 Hell with this noise. The whole freaking show from start to finish sucked ass and accomplished absolutely nothing. If you want to blow your loads over hating Triple H and Nash fine, but they're a SYMPTOM. The desease is an entirely crappy show where there is nothing... NOTHING ... worth your time. The wrestling stinks, the writing stinks, the pacing stinks.... the whole show stinks. And if Triple H had a heart attack tomarrow, the show would not be any better. Exactly, the whole thing sucked........PERIOD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 8, 2003 My bigger issue is with the HHH/Nash feud. It's pretty much well the HHH/HBK feud, which just ended 5 months ago and spanned 4 PPVs, but Nash is 100x's worse than HBK. Add that to the fact that there really is no 'issue' other than the usual "HHH turns on ____ and ____ is mad" which has been done to death. To make matters worse, I'd bet the house on a Kliq reunion by Summers-end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted May 8, 2003 What i wanna know is what Vince bases his pushes on these guys Nash, Big Show don't get much reaction from the crowd and they both suck dick in the ring.....so why...i wanna know why does he push them? There's no real reason unless it's because they're tall Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RedJed Report post Posted May 8, 2003 What i wanna know is what Vince bases his pushes on these guys Nash, Big Show don't get much reaction from the crowd and they both suck dick in the ring.....so why...i wanna know why does he push them? There's no real reason unless it's because they're tall Since he took over the company 20 years ago, Vince has always gone to the big men initially when business was faltering, sooner or later. Its just a stubborn mindset of his that he wont let go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted May 8, 2003 What i wanna know is what Vince bases his pushes on these guys Nash, Big Show don't get much reaction from the crowd and they both suck dick in the ring.....so why...i wanna know why does he push them? There's no real reason unless it's because they're tall Since he took over the company 20 years ago, Vince has always gone to the big men initially when business was faltering, sooner or later. Its just a stubborn mindset of his that he wont let go. Yeah, but how about Stone Cold, Bret Hart, HBK, Kurt angle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Downhome Report post Posted May 8, 2003 I was in awe as it was happening, I couldn't believe it was going on for so long. I went through 3 feelings during the brawl. For the first 1/3 I was pissed, the next 1/3 I was shocked that it was going so long and even though the crowd was hating it they kept going, the next 1/3 I found it to be humorous because this was so bad I could hear the buy rate for the PPV swirling down the john. That's true, you could describe me like that also. When RAW started, it had to be one of the hottest crowds in months, if not in the past few years. I mean, they were fucking ON for Austin/Bishoff/JR/King/Morley/everything else. Did you see how little that Morley/Lawler did in their match? That is how Pro. Wrestling used to be, and I miss it. They but on a VERY basic match, while all that they did looked great, but the match meant so much to the crowd, that they LOVED it. I mean, they just went crazy over that match, and then the finish. How they could not build on that emotion is beyond me. It's already been said how badly they treated RAW. It wasn't really that bad of a show to me, I enjoyed it, it was just that they seemed to do a lot of wrong things. They should have took that first segment, and really built on it leading up to the climax. The show was huge at the begining, the crowed died for the middle part, then came back alive for the Austin/Goldberg deal. Once they can keep the crowd that alive for the entire show, the they'll be on the right road. However, having a 10-15 Nash/HHH brawl will NOT have that happen. Not to mention that they should NEVER put out a Women's match UNLESS the crowd is ALREADY hot. If you put something like that out there for a cold and calm crowd, it only hurts matters worse. If they are already hot, they'll at least be into the match more, even if the match itself is not the cause for their being excited. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 8, 2003 Vince has the impression (hmm, I wonder who from??) that Nash is a draw and that a HHH/Nash program is money. As for Big Show - yeah, let's go with the "Vince would rather push a talentless big man rather than a talented 'average'-sized wrestler because they have NO IDEA what to do with Brock Lesnar at the moment and Big Show being a giant saves them from thinking and booking creatively".. in other words, they're morons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted May 8, 2003 But, he HAS to see that Nash gets lukewarm pops, and even booed, and Big Show gets nothing.....and he has to see that these guys cant move. Maybe JR is feeding shit to him in his head Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RedJed Report post Posted May 8, 2003 What i wanna know is what Vince bases his pushes on these guys Nash, Big Show don't get much reaction from the crowd and they both suck dick in the ring.....so why...i wanna know why does he push them? There's no real reason unless it's because they're tall Since he took over the company 20 years ago, Vince has always gone to the big men initially when business was faltering, sooner or later. Its just a stubborn mindset of his that he wont let go. Yeah, but how about Stone Cold, Bret Hart, HBK, Kurt angle He went to them eventually in those names mentioned, but it was during safer times in company history. Austin didn't get the title until hosses like Sid and Undertaker got runs, for example. Backtracking to 96, Michaels was losing steam on the face run as champ, and out of nowhere Vince hotshots it on Sid. And then he does it AGAIN for no logical reason 4 months later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Austin3164life Report post Posted May 8, 2003 There is no possible way even an apologist can find good out of the Nash/Triple H shitfest. The way it is being booked is horrible, and that goes for everything else on Raw. I heard that the Austin/Bischoff pairing started out well, but then bombed as it was overdone. WWE really needs to rethink their booking style. To lure/keep casual fans, you need to exert small doses of good angles to them. Don't overdo something that is even decent, or else it will turn out stale and stupid. This whole Nash/Triple H kliq orgy is horrendous and I feel bad for the talent that is Jericho because next Raw he's basically the sacrifice to ensure that Nash has some heat for this garbage ppv coming up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RedJed Report post Posted May 8, 2003 Vince has the impression (hmm, I wonder who from??) that Nash is a draw and that a HHH/Nash program is money. As for Big Show - yeah, let's go with the "Vince would rather push a talentless big man rather than a talented 'average'-sized wrestler because they have NO IDEA what to do with Brock Lesnar at the moment and Big Show being a giant saves them from thinking and booking creatively".. in other words, they're morons. I think a part of the Big Show reasoning besides whats been mentioned is that they have failed to really manuever any heel into a slot near main event level on Smackdown. So this is unforunately the best they have to them unless they turn someone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 8, 2003 I don't like the fact that they gave the halifax crowd such a shitty show (both Raw and Smackdown). They deserved much better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted May 8, 2003 The writers have to get most of the blame here.............either they keep rehashing recent shit...or they think of stupid shit....either way, they give me a vibe that they're fuckin lazy as hell or they cant think of anything creative Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 8, 2003 This is the best that *they* think there is for Brock. *They*, I once again state, are morons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RedJed Report post Posted May 8, 2003 I don't like the fact that they gave the halifax crowd such a shitty show (both Raw and Smackdown). They deserved much better. Between throwing complete shit shows to crowds that are just begging to be entertained up in Canada and the whole constant year after year sticking it to Montreal and Canada in general with the whole screwjob thing, I swear sooner or later they are going to kill off that territory if they dont quit that shit NOW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted May 8, 2003 Jesus Christ, the opening segment was an abortion. It's exactly whats wrong with WWE television. They push announcers over workers and then act surprised when the people they just buried can't freaking draw. Don't you people get it? People aren't going to spend money to see Steve Austin hang out in the back. It's not going to happen. So why spend 65% of your show trying to get him over? Why humiliate Shawn Morley ... when he's got no heat... by having everyone and their mom beat the hell out of and embarrass him. I don't care if Canada has a damn Jerry Lawler day. It's never going to translate into money. Didn't Hogan prove that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 8, 2003 I don't know why all the apologists think its a writing problem. The problem lies in company philosophy - the writers, from what I have heard, work their asses off to produce storylines, it's just they get shot down because it doesn't conform to 'certain peoples' view of what the company is and what the fans want. Of course, they're still morons, but I wouldn't call them lazy morons. I mean, you can't just lay back and suck like that. That kind of stupidity must be an active, on-going, process. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Downhome Report post Posted May 8, 2003 I fully understand them having TBS face Brocky, and I also understand why they are doing it now. They obviously don't want to give away something like Benoit/Brock on PPV yet, especially not on Judgement Day. SD is pretty weak on the side of heels, and there aren't too many to face Brock right now. This is just to give Brock yet another to go over to make him look that much stronger, before he faces Angle again, or someone else along that line. I'm not happy with Brock/TBS, but I get why they are doing it. Besides, it seems they are starting to try and add other stuff on the PPV to at least try to make up for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
