How did it all get so bad so fast?

[Guest The Tino Standard]

Things weren't always this ugly.

 

Two or three years ago, WWE was OWNING it. The company made one brilliant business move after another. Feuds were interesting. PPVs were unpredictable. Great matches were the norm. Everybody loved HHH because he was a great heel that had an extremely hot run and was a damn good heel champion. 2000-2001 were glory days.

 

But now?

 

Every show feels predictable and if something surprises you, it most likely is because it was something so insanely stupid that you'd never think they'd actually do that. Attendance and ratings are in the shitter. Match quality is down. Storylines are worse. A lot of the wrong people are being pushed and given favorable spots.

 

So what in the hell happened? How does a company go from making logical business moves and putting out such a good product all the sudden become so frustratingly stupid? Most of the mistakes WWE makes these days are all things that have us collectively smacking our foreheads, saying "duh."

 

In short, how did a relatively smart company turn into an absolutely brain-dead one in such a relatively short period?

[Guest Mole]

There isn't one thing that brought down the company, it is a whole bunch of things put together.

 

One of the biggest reasons 2000 was so good was because of the writer. I don't remember his name, but he actually had a board that had all of the storylines planned out AHEAD of time. It wasn't like he booked the show, the day of the show. He knew what he was doing, unlike a Miss Steph.

[Guest Coffey]

I think, and a lot of people agree, that the H³/Angle/Steph Love Triangle was when things started diving south.

[Guest Sakura]

Stephanie took over as head writer at Survivor Series 2000. It all went downhill then.

 

That Chris Kreski guy that wrote in 2000 made it so good. Him leaving made it so bad.

[Guest BoboBrazil]

1. Vince Russo left.

 

2. Stephanie got booking power.

 

3. XFL made Vince not listen to fans anymore.

 

4. WCW Invasion.

[Guest bob_barron]

Vince Russo leaving led us to 2000 where the WWF had a creative resurgence for almost a year. How is that a bad thing?

 

April 2nd, 2001 is generally considered the date for when the product officially went south

[Guest JDMattitudeV1]

I think, and a lot of people agree, that the H³/Angle/Steph Love Triangle was when things started diving south.

I think it started a month before that Fully Loaded, when you had Rock/Benoit, Y2J/HHH, and Angle/Taker. The WWF had the chance to create 3 new stars that night, but choose to make none. The love triangle with no payoff also hurt them, but I think Austin's heal turn also played its part. Don't get me wrong I loved heal Austin, but the simple fact was that the fans didn't want to boo him. Then there was the failed Invasion angle that could have been one of the best angles in history, but the WWF chose not to make it so. They chose to not to sign many of WCW's stars and refused to put the WCW guys over in order to keep the locker room happy, hence starting the trend of booking to please themselves rather than their fans which has sent them into their current downward spiral.

[Guest dpac]

The WCW invasion really proved to me they had no clue anymore. That could of been great but they blew that, and pretty much everything else that has happened after it.

[Guest Vitamin X]

To me things didn't really go HORRIBLE until after the inVasion was through and overwith, after Survivor Series, when Ric Flair and Jerry Lawler came back. The inVasion was watchable, but it just could have been so much better had they not blown their load so quickly and have the WCW stars they have NOW.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Everything was running smooth till the Invasion shit. I ordered tons of ppvs from 99-01...but around that time the shows got worse

[Guest imajackoff?]

I think, and a lot of people agree, that the H³/Angle/Steph Love Triangle was when things started diving south.

I think it started a month before that Fully Loaded, when you had Rock/Benoit, Y2J/HHH, and Angle/Taker. The WWF had the chance to create 3 new stars that night, but choose to make none.

The only problem with the booking of that year's Fully Loaded is that Angle didnt deserve the squashing that Taker gave him. Otherwise, every other match was handled as well as can be expected. Jericho going over HHH would have been the best idea, but c'mon, what planet are we on? And I do remember the next night HHH putting their match over as being one of his toughest, having been taken to the limit..blahblah. In the Benoit/Rock match, Benoit pretty much won the match and I believe if they had capitalized on what they started, he may have been a believable champion a few months down the line.

 

Im of the belief that the unwillingness to play out the Angle/Steph/HHH angle was the watershed moment in the decline of creative in the WWF.

[Mecha Mummy 0]

And even for the first couple months, the inVasion was all right to good. And then they did Wind Beneath Our Ring, and while it was funny, it all was shot straight to hell.

[Bored 0]

I think, and a lot of people agree, that the H³/Angle/Steph Love Triangle was when things started diving south.

I'm assuming you mean AFTER the angle when it didn't get the proper payoff (i.e. Steph leaving HHH for Angle) due to politics. The angle itslef up until the end was great.

 

Oh and it hasn't been fast downturn its been very gradual. I'd say it started to turn downhill after Austin returned and the whole Rikishi heel turn that was a disaster, although I would agree the booking of Fully Loaded (especially the Taker/Angle match) blew but the overall product still remained strong in the months after it. Then of course after that the failure of the Invasion angle and then the failure of the n.W.o. return sped things up.

[Guest Kingpk]

Well, I already said what I thought is the reason things are in the crapper, but I must say something about the Invasion.

 

I was at the Smackdown before the Invasion PPV and there was a fairly big section of ECW fans to the right of mine (I was in the upper deck) who booed the WWF guys mercilessly and popped HUGE when RVD made his in ring debut. If Vince didn't go the way he did with it and actually made the Alliance worth a damn, things would have turned out VERY differently. Just look at the buyrate for that PPV

 

I'm just saying this to people who thought the Invasion was a flop from the start.

[Bored 0]

I'm just saying this to people who thought the Invasion was a flop from the start.

No it wasn't and it was very well received at first with the occasional WCW run-in. It really did go south and had to change the whole direction of it after the embarassment of the Booker/Bagwell match as it was HUGE mistake to Bagwell in that match and also was in hindsight not a good idea to put as the main event of the show as WWF fans didn't pay to see WCW guys in the main event of Raw. Booker and DDP had a match on Smackdown that same week and it was very good and that would have been the better choice for the first match. They saved the angle for the time being by bringing guys like RVD and bring the ECW side into things but then of course what you said about Vince refused to make any of the WCW or ECW wrestlers seem on the same level as the WWF wrestlers.

[Guest papacita]

Storyline wise, I've never really liked 2000 all that much. I mean...am I the only one who remembers the McMahon-Helmsley Faction...er...Regime...er...whatever? Granted, it's not as bad as what we have now, but still...*shudders*

 

Anyway, I've felt that the WWF was steadily declining since Owen died. After the accident, the product just didn't seem as crisp as it once was, IMO. Making Steph head writer only made matters worse.

 

And I STILL say that JERICHO should've stolen Steph from HHH at SummerSlam, NOT Angle.

[Guest buffybeast]

In short, how did a relatively smart company turn into an absolutely brain-dead one in such a relatively short period?

The death of WCW.

 

I swear, WWF was generally on top of their game when WCW posed a major threat as seen in the late 90s. When WCW died and Vince picked up the scraps, I think the quality writing, the ability to clearly write and execute storylines died too.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

"Vince Russo leaving led us to 2000 where the WWF had a creative resurgence for almost a year. How is that a bad thing?"

 

Hate him or not...

 

the day Vince Russo left the WWF is the day the midcard was completely forgotten about.

[Guest ViciousFish]

In short, how did a relatively smart company turn into an absolutely brain-dead one in such a relatively short period?

The death of WCW.

 

I swear, WWF was generally on top of their game when WCW posed a major threat as seen in the late 90s. When WCW died and Vince picked up the scraps, I think the quality writing, the ability to clearly write and execute storylines died too.

I've been telling my friends that for a long time. I remember on an Off The Record they had Edge, Christian, Jericho and Morley right after it happened and I remember Edge saying to was a bad idea too.

[Guest THE MIGHTY THOR]

Steph becoming the head writer even though she couldn't write herself out of a paperbag was the beginning of the end, this bimbo is not a professional writer and on top of that she has HHH telling her who gets pushed and who doesn't.

[Mrnoitaull 0]

Im sorry, I'm dying off of Bobobrazil's sig !!!!

[Guest Austin3164life]

The seeds that planted the "bad idea" days were as follows:

 

HHH/Angle/Steph Love Story blowoff.

Who Ran Over Austin blowoff (Rikishi?, come on)

 

What eventually started the downward spiral phase:

 

Austin and Rock just headlined probably the best pay per view the WWE/F has ever had (along with the most buyrates, I think). WWE was at it's ultimate peak. Ratings were good and the storylines were still generally doing well. Instead of feuding Austin with Triple H (who got a HUGE reaction the night after WM), they paired them up which was a slap to the fans' face.

 

Honorable mentions: XFL, WCW Purchased, ECW Bankrupt

[Kurt Angle Mark 0]

IMO the downfall started with not having a pay off to the Love Triangle. While the ratings and attendance remained strong until Wrestlemania X-7, the Love Triangle if played out correctly could have attracted more viewers because it was a storyline that appealed to both males and females. Personally speaking when the storyline got killed that is when the WWE stopped being must see TV.

 

Turning Austin heel without turning HHH face after Wrestlemania X-7, is what started the WWE's financial woes because they were left with no major babyface who could draw. The ratings and attendance have been on a decline ever since. This is the big one because the WWE still hasn't found a major babyface who can draw or giving a chance to those who might be.

 

I still look at Unforgiven 2000, as the day when things began going downhill and the creative team has been making worse and worse ever since.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Hate him or not...

 

the day Vince Russo left the WWF is the day the midcard was completely forgotten about.

 

Not true. Although I agree that Russo paid attention to the midcarders, Kreski continued it. He actually made Crash Holly worth a damn, and there was always a reason for a midcard match on PPV. Guys like Too Cool also took off during the Kreski era. Aside from one giant brainfart at the King of the Ring, the midcard was handled better than ever in 2000 because Kreski had better talent than Russo ever had thanks to guys like Malenko & Guerrero.

 

Fully Loaded didn't please me, but Angle survived and Benoit looked good. Jericho pretty much had to lose, since HHH/Angle was going to be the main program coming up. The booking in the Angle match is the one I have problems with.

 

Unforgiven 2000 was when the WWF jumped the shark. HHH/Angle came to no conclusion in a sub-par match and Austin's return was botched. Since that PPV, the WWF has made one mistake after another, and although it was a slow ride down, it has been headed down. The cause is definitely Steph's promotion to head booker. There have been two excellent periods in the company since then, neither of which Steph had much to do with. They are June 2001 when Benoit & Jericho were getting brief main event pushes, and Fall 2002 when Paul Heyman booked **** matches on Smackdown every week. Other than that, they have had good shows (Wrestlemania XVII), but they haven't been able to string a series of them together and their weekly shows were often mediocre or worse. It is only fitting that Survivor Series 2000 when Steph started her reign of terror is one of the most insultingly stupid shows of all time. In retrospect the problems were there from Unforgiven, but Survivor Series was what sent alarm bells off in our heads indicating that things were not all wine and roses.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

The Invasion angle was doomed from the beginning. Shane in charge of WCW made it a McMahon vs. McMahon storyline, not a WCW vs. WWF one.

[Guest Banky]

I agree. The McMahon vs. McMahon emphasis on the Invasion was the beginning of the end.

[Guest razazteca]

In short, how did a relatively smart company turn into an absolutely brain-dead one in such a relatively short period?

It went public on the Stock Market

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

I think, and a lot of people agree, that the H³/Angle/Steph Love Triangle was when things started diving south.

Nah, cause even then the promos were written out well and the in-ring stuff was still solid.

 

I have pegged October 2001 as the point that it got horrible.

 

 

EDIT Accidentally said 2002. Oops!

Edited May 13, 2003 by Jobber of the Week

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

...Which is about the end of the HHH/Steph/Angle love-mess.

 

Had Angle ended up stealing Steph away, turned HHH face, and continue their feud, things wouldn't have turned out the way they are. I think it says a GREAT DEAL about the current environment in the WWE when the only person who is able to break up Steph/HHH is Steph/HHH. Kinda like the NWO and WCW... WCW couldn't beat the NWO, the NWO had to divide into the Kevin Nash group and the Hulk Hogan group...

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

...Which is about the end of the HHH/Steph/Angle love-mess.

October 2002?

 

 

 

I actually meant to say October 2001 in my original post (Oops!) but Oct 2002 was way after all the HHH/Steph shit. They oficially "signed divorce papers" at Vengeance and haven't really mentioned each other since short of crap like Raw X.