Limosine Ridin', Jet Plane Flyin', WOOOOOOOO!

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

I'm sorry, but Flair was on the mark tonight. Most people probably can't remember the last time Flair nailed somebody from the top rope, but it's been awhile. Hell, he even sold the flip over the top rope. I knew he wouldn't win but two eye gouges and a mule kick. The dirtiest player in the game was in rare form tonight! Between Austin and the Flair match it made the show worth watching.

[Guest bravesfan]

The dirtiest player in the game was in rare form tonight!

 

I think it's more related to the fact that Flair had a DIRECTION tonight, as opposed to being attached to Hunter's penis for the last seven months.

 

Anytime you give a reason for Flair to shine, he knocks it out of the ballpark...plain and simple.

[Guest BoboBrazil]

I marked out when he hit the top rope move. Flair is hilarious.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I really enjoyed the match. I noticed that HHH seemed to be bumping around more than usual.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

You know, I was going to make a "Somebody sell me on Ric Flair" thread in the near future but I can just whore this thread up.

 

So, somebody sell me on Ric Flair. Tell me why he's as great as most claim he is.

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

You know, I was going to make a "Somebody sell me on Ric Flair" thread in the near future but I can just whore this thread up.

 

So, somebody sell me on Ric Flair. Tell me why he's as great as most claim he is.

It's quite obvious that you never saw Flair in his prime(Early to mid, maybe late 80's). So to sit hear and try to sell you on him would be stupid. It's a "you had to be there" thing. Flair was great, but the Horsemen played a major part in making Flair "The Man".

[Guest Special K]

1. He has had more good matches than anyone else in America, maybe the world.

 

2. He made slugs like Luger look like a million bucks. He made tons of stars.

 

3. He's great on the mic, whether doing a serious promo, an arrogant promo, or a crazy old man promo.

 

4. Hence, we have a sense of nostalgia that makes us mark out for his matches even they're not really so hot anymore.

 

5. He's still better than a lot of the WWE slugs.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

1. Benoit, Misawa, Jumbo, Lyger, Kobashi, Kawada. All have had better and more diverse series of matches then Flair.

 

2. Well, when you wrestle the same match for as long as Flair has it shouldn't be too hard to perfect that "art".

 

3. No arguments here. I'd pick the Foley promo's as Cactus Jack in ECW as the best mic work ever or even some of Austin, Jericho and A.A's work.

 

4. Some are downright cold.

 

5. It's weird, because I see no difference in his matches nowadays compared to his older stuff yet people don't cream over Jericho vs Flair like they would Flair vs Sting.

[Guest Special K]

1. That's why I said -In America- and -# of matches- I agree Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi Liger are better, but they haven't put on stellar matches for as long. Jumbo of course seems to be the hands on fave here, but I haven't seen enough of his stuff.

 

2. That's a valid point of course, but you can't discount that while he repeated lots of spots, he BUSTED his ASS for years and years. I think his repetetiveness (repetetivity?) is mostly being due to a: Many of his matches not being televised, so he could comfortably work similar matches; b: The aforementioned getting slugs to look great. It's tough to do, and he found an efficient way to do it.

 

Look at Jericho, a very good worker who tries to make his opponents look good. He has a tough time with crap workers like Hogan and Nash, so he can only resort to bouncing off them like a superball. Flair found a good way through simple, but good, psychology to have good matches with slugs where there was actually give and take, a really good flow to the match.

 

 

Overall, there are many arguments to make as to why Flair is or is not the greatest, but it's hard to deny he's in the real upper eschelons, and is in general, the shit. Present company of matches excepted.

[Guest bravesfan]

1. Benoit, Misawa, Jumbo, Lyger, Kobashi, Kawada. All have had better and more diverse series of matches then Flair.

 

Ric Flair was/is the best worker in North America. He's been having ***** matches since 1982 (from my tape memory, at least).

 

I'd believe he's in the top six-seven in the world, but certainly not the best.

 

3. No arguments here. I'd pick the Foley promo's as Cactus Jack in ECW as the best mic work ever or even some of Austin, Jericho and A.A's work.

 

I don't know about Jericho's work. Probably some of the best work in the last 3-4 years, but AA, Foley and Flair are still lightyears ahead of it.

 

Jericho's promos lack the emotion that these 3 workers carried through all of their promos.

 

If I had to rank those three from best to worst: Flair, AA, then Foley.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

Ric Flair doesn't really have ***** matches. He has ***** matches on the "Flair Scale" which doesn't really translate in the real world. Diversity is a big factor in determining the GOAT and Flair is sorely lacking in that category.

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

Here's something that I found from someone in attendance tonight...

 

After Nash gets done staring down HHH, he goes over to check on Flair. While he's over there Shawn Michaels' music hits and here comes HBK with a ton of wrestlers (face and heel) in street clothes from the back. The crowd doesn't know what's going on until they all arrive and start hugging Flair. Austin's music hits. He slides in one side of the ring and out the other to get a cooler of beer. He takes one to Flair. Then goes to get more for the other wrestlers in the ring.

 

Now Stephanie McMahon's music hits and she comes down to hug Flair. Now Shane McMahon's music hits! Shane O'Mac! He comes dancing down the ramp to come congratulate Flair. Next it's Vince. He comes down walking hurriedly and intensely gets in the ring and stares down Flair before cracking a bit of a smile and hugging Flair.

 

HHH comes back out next. When he gets in the ring, everybody goes to each side of Flair. While HHH stares down Flair his cheers turn to boos. But the boos went to cheers (biggest pop of the night) when he took the belt and placed it on Flair's shoulder and raised his arm. All the guys then took Flair up on their shoulders and carried him around the ring.

 

The crowd is yelling "speech, speech, speech," and a teary-eyed Flair obliges. He says he's made a lot of memories here in Greenville (he wrestled here virtually every Monday night back in the day). He thanks the fans and his fellow wrestlers and says they've been the greatest to work with and he's never been happier than his time spent with them the past couple of years.

 

In the next couple of hours I'm sure this will come out, if it's true.

[Guest bravesfan]

Any reason as to the levity of this incident?

 

This can't be Flair's last singles match, can it?

[EL DANDY~! 0]

You got Benoit, Misawa, Kawada, Jumbo, Hokuto, Kong, Lyger...numerous people who have had absolutely superb matches. Why these people have had more diverse matches...I challenge anybody who questions the greatness of Ric Flair to see how he took a person who had no shot and turn him into a superstar. His greatness is not in his wrestling ability. These people were all about workrate that were mentioned. They were great in the ring. In fact, there was an absolutely OUTSTANDING match between Flair and Jumbo for the NWA title back in 1982 to prove two points:

 

1) Jumbo, bar none, was probably the best male wrestler in the history of professional wrestling. He could work with anybody at all, and he changed his style to fit. See his matches with Tenryu in the 80s, his matches with Terry Funk in the 70s, and then his matches with the Big Four in the 90s.

 

2) Flair, although maybe not as gifted workrate-wise as the great Jumbo, was just as great as Jumbo was as telling a story in that ring. Flair was able to have matches that were outstanding because Ric Flair MADE them outstanding. Not with his wrestling, but with his psychology, his style, and his selling. He's the best carrier in the business, in my top 5 all time, and I doubt that anybody with a keen sense of wrestling knowledge will disagree that Flair was a great wrestler. He might not have been a great WORKER...but he was a great WRESTLER.

[Guest y2jailbait]

Here's something that I found from someone in attendance tonight...

 

After Nash gets done staring down HHH, he goes over to check on Flair. While he's over there Shawn Michaels' music hits and here comes HBK with a ton of wrestlers (face and heel) in street clothes from the back. The crowd doesn't know what's going on until they all arrive and start hugging Flair. Austin's music hits. He slides in one side of the ring and out the other to get a cooler of beer. He takes one to Flair. Then goes to get more for the other wrestlers in the ring.

 

Now Stephanie McMahon's music hits and she comes down to hug Flair. Now Shane McMahon's music hits! Shane O'Mac! He comes dancing down the ramp to come congratulate Flair. Next it's Vince. He comes down walking hurriedly and intensely gets in the ring and stares down Flair before cracking a bit of a smile and hugging Flair.

 

HHH comes back out next. When he gets in the ring, everybody goes to each side of Flair. While HHH stares down Flair his cheers turn to boos. But the boos went to cheers (biggest pop of the night) when he took the belt and placed it on Flair's shoulder and raised his arm. All the guys then took Flair up on their shoulders and carried him around the ring.

 

The crowd is yelling "speech, speech, speech," and a teary-eyed Flair obliges. He says he's made a lot of memories here in Greenville (he wrestled here virtually every Monday night back in the day). He thanks the fans and his fellow wrestlers and says they've been the greatest to work with and he's never been happier than his time spent with them the past couple of years.

 

In the next couple of hours I'm sure this will come out, if it's true.

If this is true, there's no other way to "sell" you on Ric Flair then this. The respect of wrestlers within the business for Flair is immense as he has influenced virtually every heel (Or Face for that manner) in this business for almost 15 years. I'm just hoping that this'll make it onto a Flair DVD someday!

[Guest Lightning Flik]

The way that is worded, it sounds like Flair's done....

 

And if Raw's match was his final match, I assure you, that's NOT how I'd want the 16 time World Champion to go out. Then again, I guess no one ever goes out on top.

 

Hopefully, Flair's not done and it was just a homage to Flair.

[Guest Dmann2000]

Here's something that I found from someone in attendance tonight...

 

After Nash gets done staring down HHH, he goes over to check on Flair. While he's over there Shawn Michaels' music hits and here comes HBK with a ton of wrestlers (face and heel) in street clothes from the back. The crowd doesn't know what's going on until they all arrive and start hugging Flair. Austin's music hits. He slides in one side of the ring and out the other to get a cooler of beer. He takes one to Flair. Then goes to get more for the other wrestlers in the ring.

 

Now Stephanie McMahon's music hits and she comes down to hug Flair. Now Shane McMahon's music hits! Shane O'Mac! He comes dancing down the ramp to come congratulate Flair. Next it's Vince. He comes down walking hurriedly and intensely gets in the ring and stares down Flair before cracking a bit of a smile and hugging Flair.

 

HHH comes back out next. When he gets in the ring, everybody goes to each side of Flair. While HHH stares down Flair his cheers turn to boos. But the boos went to cheers (biggest pop of the night) when he took the belt and placed it on Flair's shoulder and raised his arm. All the guys then took Flair up on their shoulders and carried him around the ring.

 

The crowd is yelling "speech, speech, speech," and a teary-eyed Flair obliges. He says he's made a lot of memories here in Greenville (he wrestled here virtually every Monday night back in the day). He thanks the fans and his fellow wrestlers and says they've been the greatest to work with and he's never been happier than his time spent with them the past couple of years.

 

In the next couple of hours I'm sure this will come out, if it's true.

You know, it's stuff like that, even if non-televised, still gives me hope for this company. That's some classy shit to do.

[Guest Midnight Express83]

Flair is the polar oppsite of most heels in the NWA durring the 80s. Almost all heels were beer swelling rednecks barring people like Tully Blandchard and the Andersons.

 

Anyways, Flair shined being that cocky son of a bitch who just hated. Flair is one of the best promoers ever. When he has a talented wrestler like Steamboat, Hart, Michaels, Funks, Race, Briscos, ect. ect. ect. he is the fucking man with the greatest matches. But he has solid matches when he is wrestling slugs. HHH is trying to do a Flair reign without selling, putting over everyone else, and jobbing once in a while. And it doesn't work.

[Guest Austin3164life]

Ric Flair is considered by many (including myself) to be the greatest pro-wrestler to ever step into any ring at any time period. From what I read in Jhawk's review, it seemed that throughout Raw, the build to the Main Event was fantastic, showcasing Flair trying to grab a hold of glory once more, and Triple H being the egotistical/cowardly heel by thinking that Ric F'N Flair is going to lay down in North Carolina. In terms of pure wrestling ability alone, Ric Flair is not the purest athlete or technician, but in terms of complete package, there hasn't been anyone like Ric Flair. Guys like Flair come once in three lifetimes.

[Guest humongous2002]

Flair was God's gift to wrestling back in the 80's like Angle is in the 21st century, different times, different styles, but both men are professionals when it comes down to wrestling, even though he was on last night i still feel that Flair should just retire so i could remember him as the great wrestler that he was instead of remembering him as HHH's bitch, it makes want to vomit everytime Flair call Crips the best wrestler of all time, what a sell-out.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Absolutely incredible. Flair can still work....even against a mediocre opponent.

[EL DANDY~! 0]

I can't believe how he took a total schlub like HHH, and took him to a great match for seven and a half minutes. Leave it up to Ric Flair to bring it all to the table. I swear. He needs to ask Steamboat to come back for one match to show everybody how to wrestle again. Steamboat with a broken back is still better than most of the wrestlers out there, and I wouldn't be surprised if we got another classic from them.

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

I be damn! It looks as though I was right. I posted something first and it was correct. The locker room did empty and they did have a little tribute to the Nature Boy!

 

Too bad nobody will ever remember it was Johnson1620 who broke this story first. You guys can't stand when I'm right.

[Tully316 0]

People have always said that "Flair could have a ***** match with a broomstick."

 

Once you recognize and understand the meaning of this statement, then you can understand the greatness that is Ric Flair.

 

The man made people rise up to his level, no matter how bad. That is his true legacy.

[Guest Nater]

The Ric Flair Annual Essay Contest...

 

Ric Flair is the man, nuff said.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Ric Flair doesn't really have ***** matches. He has ***** matches on the "Flair Scale" which doesn't really translate in the real world.

This is officially when you stop having points and begin being a troll. Just thought I'd point that out.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

Troll? Ease up, skippy. It's the truth. Somebody tell me about the vast repitoire Flair posesses. Honestly. Because every single match Flair is in I only see:

 

1) Chops

2) Whoooos!

3) Strutting

4) Figure four

5) Headlock and punch

6) Backdrop

7) Flair flip

8) Bodyslam off the top rope.

 

It's not like a match where a guy hits GOOD signature moves, Flairs repitition has been going on for a long, long time but people will still (in the words of Homer Simpson) "kiss his BUTT and call it ice cream." I've seen Hart, Benoit and others do great carry-jobs in their respective careers and they showed far much more diversity while doing it then Flair ever has.

 

Compare the careers of Jumbo and Ric Flair. Compare their ***** matches. Look who made the effort to do something different in each match. Look who didn't.

[Guest KanadianKrusty]

LOTC, you forgot the SWANK shoulder dive to the knee, and DAMN YOU Flair for being so good last night, I've been struting all day dammit!

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Who in the hell is Jumbo? I'm guessing you're one of these "puro" people, whatever that means. I'm probably one of the more markiest people on the board because I don't really care about anything outside of the WWE and the old WCW.

 

I've only been watching for about 4 years now and I prefer North American Pro Wrestling (or sports entertainment or whatever the fuck you can to call it) to just entertain myself and becase Reality TV sucks. For my dollar, Flair is pretty entertaining.

 

 

What I am trying to say is, if you have points to back up your claims, bring them on, I'm sure the people here are interested. But if all you're going to do is rag about how Flair is overrated by everyone, then it's trolling.

[Guest TheHulkster]

Ric Flair is one of those guys in professional wrestling who doesn't go out there and play the part of a character. He's a personality, which is a rare thing to find in the wrestling business these days. For example, look at Randy Savage. If you saw Randy Savage on the street, odds are he would be wearing something slightly outrageous, still would talk in his trademark raspy voice, and would be just as intense if riled up as he would be if he were main eventing a pay per view. It would probably be slightly toned down, but it would still be the Randy Savage you used to see on TV because he's a natural personality and on television or in front of live crowds, that personality captivated the audience because it was something that they never saw in their everyday lives. The bookers didn't need to give Savage a ridiculous character to get over, all that they had to do was let him go out there and be himself. It's the same story with Flair and many guys who became top draws in the wrestling industry. Personalities are hard to come by, and it's the same story in movies, television, and the music industry, they will shine because they have that natural charisma that makes people want to watch their every move. Flair has that all in spades. You can see it when he cuts a promo or when he lights up someone's chest with a blistering chop. It doesn't hurt that he's a hard worker and an incredible showman.