Limosine Ridin', Jet Plane Flyin', WOOOOOOOO!

[Guest Coffey]

The same amount of wrestlers worship the guy for the same reasons that guys on this board praise him: Because it's the cool thing to do and it's accepted as the gospel...

Which is the same reason why everyone likes Benoit & hates HHH.

[Guest godthedog]

what's the deal with people always saying benoit gets mindlessly worshipped? i've never heard any kind of argument for this statement at all. at least curry can use valid reasons to knock flair off the pedestal, is there any kind of REASON at all that we shouldn't like chris benoit?

 

is there something nobody's telling me that somehow cancels out his royal rumble match in january? or his unforgiven match last year? or his no mercy match last year? or the ten days that he wrestled a 2/3 falls match, a tag team turmoil match, a great tag match with trips and austin, a TLC match, and 2 damn good matches with austin? or the 94 j cup?

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

You are right Flyboy, the matches are on tape. That means the efect they had when they were new is no longer there. How can you appreciate a fued that lasted months by only watching the tapes of the matches?

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

What the fuck difference does it make whether or not they're new? If the tapes are good quality and the matches are as good as people say they are, they should hold up fine by todays standards. Most of them, however, fall short IMO.

 

Your contention seems to be that if I wasn't around during that era then I can't really enjoy it. Well, fucking hell, I better throw out every single one of my puro tapes because I wasn't watching it back then, therefore I don't "get it." Ditto for my ECW comps and old WCW tapes.

 

If a match is good, it will stand the test of time.

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

You miss my point. The matches do hold the test of time. But unless you see what leads up to the matches, promos, run ins, etc. Then all you are getting is a good match. There's nothing else to it. To see Flair work from week to week in those days was a thing of beauty. That's what you're missing just watching a tape.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

But what's the point in bothering with a wrestler who is famous for being repetitive and (on some occasions) very boring? I think RavisingRickRudo said it best that Flair's workrate, style, moveset and psychological elements were reached and beaten some time ago by other wrestlers.

 

For example, I don't know the buildup that lead to the famous Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi match in 1993. Have no clue how it came about. But it didn't matter because the match still rocked the house. The proof in the matches is in the pudding, so to speak, because the fact remains that all the buildup to the match is just that, buildup. It's up to the match itself to deliver. Now if you're telling me that I missed out on some classic Flair stuff just because I didn't watch him on TV, fine, go nuts. But don't say that I should go out and watch every single piece of Flair footage before I can have an educated opinion.

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

You may have a very educated opinion, but that still doesn't mean you can totally appreciate Ric Flair's career, because you can't and like I have said several times, even the one's on here who love Flair but weren't even around during his prime can't appreciate Flair like those of us who were watching him week to week.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

So why can I appreciate Jumbo Tsuruta's career? Why can I manage to appreciate one wrestlers work but when Ric Flair is concerned I can't appreciate him? I wasn't watching a lot of wrestlers I love todays primes but through the magic of the internet and tapes I can appreciate it.........but not with Ric Flair. Because I had to be there. Right. Don't let logic get in the way of facts, dude.

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

So why can I appreciate Jumbo Tsuruta's career? Why can I manage to appreciate one wrestlers work but when Ric Flair is concerned I can't appreciate him? I wasn't watching a lot of wrestlers I love todays primes but through the magic of the internet and tapes I can appreciate it.........but not with Ric Flair. Because I had to be there. Right. Don't let logic get in the way of facts, dude.

Not anybody's. You may appreciate some of those matches those puro guys had, but you can't fully appreciate their career's. Unless you were there it is physically impossible for you to fully appreciate any wreslter's career.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

That's a pretty constricted viewpoint.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

I disagree with the argument that you must live in said wrestlers time and watch the events transpire from week to week on tv to fully appreciate the greatness of said wrestler or said match...

 

For instance, about 4 months before Lou Thesz died, I picked up his book Hooker, and read it... it was awesome. The greatest wrestling book ever written, and that includes Foley's first (which I've read 5 times.) After Hooker, I became incredibly fascinated by Lou Thesz. I wanted to know everything about the guy. His whole story just amazed me, so I tried to get my hands on anything related to him.

 

So what I'm saying, is that I respect Lou Thesz and his accomplishments a great deal. And when he died, it did affect me. Not like the passing of a family member, or not even like the passing of a wrestler I've watched all my life, but it did put a damper on my day.

 

Another example... I did not grow up watching Ric Flair. I wish I had. I grew up watching Hulk Hogan and the cartoonish 80's, early 90's WWF. I knew who Ric Flair was because I read Apter magazines and every now and then I would catch a worldwide episode. It still wasn't my thing. I was a stupid kid. I wasn't exposed to Flair until '91 when he entered the WWF. Even then I hated him, because I knew there was a debate about who was the greatest wrestler between Flair and Hogan, and of course, I favored Hogan. I didn't end up getting into Flair until I became a certified "smart mark" although I really hate using that term. It was then that I bought a comp. tape of the Flair/Steamboat trilogy of matches that took place in '89. And I was emotionally pulled into those matches. I worshipped them then, and I worship them today. But I didn't grow up watching them transpire... see my point?

 

Anyway, this argument is kind of getting dull... If Curry doesn't like Ric Flair, it's his opinion. I wouldn't have even jumped into the argument, but when I noticed that his opinion seemed a little arrogant, as if WE Flair marks are blind and stupid... then I felt the need to jump in.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

I wouldn't call Flair marks stupid all the time but a vast majority certainly are blind.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

All 'marks' are blind to something, no matter what wrestler they like.

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

So, because I say that when you actually watch a wrestler live through out his career you can have a better appreciation of that said wrestlers career, that makes me a mark?

 

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Flair is awesome. I'll get to that in a minute...

 

Firstly, the argument that "Flair has no moveset he just does the same every match" is crap. Gimme 80s Flair over any AJ Styles 50 moves with no meaning shit.

 

Flair is easily one of the top 20 pro-wrestlers ever. Easy. Flair did it all. He carried nobodys to watchable matches, one hour draws, classics World Heavyweight Title matches, bloody and intense brawls, great tag matches, great promos, great angles and some of the greatest feuds ever. If you look back at Flair's career you will find a huge number of great, great matches. Maybe, not "5* matches" but people will argue all the time about what is and what isn't a "5* match".

 

Ric Flair isn't great? Watch Flair vs. Steamboat, Flair vs. Jumbo, Flair vs. Funk, Flair vs. Windham. Not only that, watch matches like Flair vs. Helmsley from RAW. Flair's lesser performances were as much what made him great as his classics. He carried decent/shitty workers like Sting/Luger to nearly classic hour long matches. He carried Hulk Hogan to some of the best matches he ever had. He carried a whole roster of WWF superstars ranging from good to utter shit in the 1992 Royal Rumble, for christ sake! It also happened to be the best Rumble match ever.

 

You want a match to see the undoubtable greatness of Ric Flair? Go and watch the match he and Arn had with two worthless "wrestlers" in Kevin Greene and Steve McMichael. Flair, using all his charisma, crowd working abilities and class, managed to carry to football players two the best match he possibly could.

 

Ric Flair. STILL the man.

[TheFranchise]

Flair - Da Man.

[Guest HellSpawn]

Hey Lord of The Curry, maybe you should get a Flair compilation, here is one SK review, if you dont agree with SK, forget about his opinion, just read the play by play.

 

(http://411mania.com/wrestling/videos/article.php?videos_id=174)

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

I've actually got one but it's at RavishingRickRudo's house and I'm too lazy to go get it. I'm still working my way through an All Japan Strong Style tape........

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I've seen those matches, and you know what? I've seen better...MUCH better.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

I'd probably bug you about borrowing the tape but I've seen one Flair match....so.......ya know.....I don't need to see any more.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

But in one match he does the turnbuckle flip and in the other he... um... does...the...turnbuckle...flip... and in the other he does..the... turn...fuck.

[Guest abowen33]

I lurk here all day but rarely post, but I thought I'd pop in and say that Flair actually connecting off of the top rope was probably the first time in a year that I've marked out during Raw. Nostalgia or not, I loved every minute of it.

[Guest NoSelfWorth]

I hate to break it to the Flair Fanboy Network, but he did have a limited moveset, and he did stick to it for pretty much every match he had. He was still a fantastic worker, able to get good matches out of complete stiffs, but at the end of the day, his moveset was limited. Anyone with eyes can see it, and when you try and deny that, it damages any credibility your argument has.

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

The argument isn't about his move set, since evey other wrestler in the world basically does the same move set over and over again. LOTC said he wanted to be sold on Flair but his mind was made up before anyone ever explained anything to him.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

Of course my mind was made up, wizard. That's why somebody needed to sell me on him. Because, coming into this thread I wasn't sold on him and I'm still not.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

and Jumbo's moveset was huge, wasn't it. So was Stan Hansen's, Kawada's, DiBiase's, Race's...right? No actually, they didn't have huge movesets either.

 

The moveset argument is shit. It suggests that Large moveset=good wrestler.

 

Flair's matches stand up on their own. He consistently had good-great matches when it mattered for years and years, thus he equals a great wrestler. Not the best ever, but undeniably great.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

for Christ's sake man, I like the guy too, but does it mean your "in the know" for being a fucking JUMBO mark........

[Guest HellSpawn]

I think WE should stop bashing Curry for that Jumbo thing. He already said it was just an example.

 

Now back to the topic, I do believe he came here with an idea and asked to us to change that idea and I think either...

 

a) WE arent doing our job

or

b) he really dont (doesnt? sorry, Im not too good with do/does) want to change.

 

But ok.

 

 

I do believe he should get a really good Compilation, sadly, the only one I think he could get and really appreciate Flair (I seen very little from him and I do like Flair) is from www.prowrestlingtapes.com I cant recommend that site, 'cause I order once and I was screwed, but Im postin in a couple of days the whole list of stuff that a 2 tapes set include.

 

Believe me, if you get/find those things you will Love Flair...

 

Or you never had a Flair Love on your system, and well, shit happens. J/K

 

 

Now about Moveset, I think We are not BLIND, yeah we know he is not Mr.Kawada or Sayama Mr. America (J/K) or even Benoit who can work several styles, but the Flair Love is NOT entirely based on Moveset, is a whole package, including Promos, style, selling, classic stuff, being the Dirtiest Man on the Business, funny stuff, etc.

 

Yeah, is formulaic, so what? then you must hate the whole RnR Express vs Midnite Express saga, you know they invented (or TM'd) the formula for Tag Team matches.

Edited May 28, 2003 by HellSpawn

[Adam]

I have spoken to Ric, he's a nice guy. He proved last week that he can still entertain in the ring. 'Nuff Said.

[Guest HellSpawn]

Here is the stuff I said above:

 

Tape Name : Comp13: Ric Flair The Legend, Tape 1

Length : 6 hrs

Date : 1997

Rec Quality: Good - Excellent

Match List :

 

RIC FLAIR LEGEND (Cassette #1)

 

1. Introduction: *THE ULTIMATE RIC FLAIR VIDEO*!! (Contains footage of

some of Flair's best moments including his comments on Bam Bam Bigelow,

John Ayers, and a confrontation with Bill Alfonzo (current manager of TAZ)!

Plus footage never released of Ric Flair and Ricky "The Dragon"

Steamboat!! Steamboat tries to take off his tights + much much more!!!)

2. Ric Flair on "His First Title Win"

3. Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes (Champ) Kansas City, MO 09/17/81.

(Includes introductions and last 5% + pin!!) RIC FLAIR'S FIRST TITLE WIN!

Qual: Good

4. Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Erich (cage) (clip/Qual: EX)

5. Ric Flair vs Austin Idol (**RAW FOOTAGE**) Qual: VG

6. Ric Flair *first* title rein video!! Qual: GOOD

7. Ric Flair (first title rein) does an exhibition with a jobber on

scientific wrestling!! Gordon Soile and a young

Barry Windham are doing the play-by-play!! Suddenly, Flair wants to give

Barry a go! Qual: VG

8. Ric Flair vs Harley Race (06/10/83) ***EXTREMELY RARE FOOTAGE!!!***

St. Louis, MO. Footage of the third and deciding fall!! Qual: VG

9. Ric Flair on "His Greatest Moment"

10. Ric Flair vs Harley Race (cage) (11/24/83) Greensboro, NC 30%

FLAIR WINS HIS SECOND WORLD TITLE!! Pin included!!

11. Ric Flair vs David Von Erich (NO DQ...12/25/83) Last 10% Qual: VG

12. Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Erich (05/06/84) Irving, TX. Qual: VG 100%

13. Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Erich (05/24/84) Yokosuka City, JAPAN

Qual: G/VG 2 out of 3 falls, ENGLISH PLAY-BY-PLAY

Fall#1: 90%, fall#2: 100%, fall#3: 100%. RIC FLAIR WINS HIS THIRD WORLD

TITLE!

14. MUSIC VIDEO: Ric Flair's third title rein!! (Includes Flair getting

pinned by Ricky Morton and classic *Horsemen response) Qual: ranges from

footage collection. VG - Excellent

15. Ric Flair gives Tony Schavione $500 to get a new coat. Qual: Good

16. Dusty Rhodes on Ric Flair

17. Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes (CAGE) (07/26/86) Greensboro, NC 100%

18. Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes (08/07/86) Qual: VG Tully Blanchard

creates the hell for Rhodes next title defense two days later

19. Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes (08/09/86) Qual: VG Very rare footage

of RIC FLAIR WINNING HIS FOURTH WORLD TITLE!

20. MUSIC VIDEO: Ric Flair's fourth title reign. Qual: ranges from footage

collection. Good - Ex (Includes JJ Dillon match footage and WAR GAMES!)

***NEVER BEFORE SEEN HOUSE FOOTAGE OF THE FOUR HORSEMEN WITH *ENGLISH* PLAY

BY PLAY!!!***

21. Ric Flair vs Jimmy Garvin (cage) *End only*

Flair loses his tights and a crazed fan tries to get into the cage!

22. Ric Flair interview on Ronnie Garvin Qual: VG

23. Ric Flair vs Ronnie Garvin (CAGE) (20%) Contains clips of the match

from the beginning, middle and end. Qual: Ex!! (09/25D87) Detroit, MI

Includes restored footage of what happened when Garvin wins the belt!!

24. Ric Flair on "To Be A Horseman"

25. Ric Flair/Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard/Lex Luger

vs Mike Rotundo/Barry Windham/The Lightning Express

(Tim Horner/Brad Armstrong)!! Classic 8-Man Tag in which Ronnie Garvin

(champ) has no choice but to help 90%

26. RIC FLAIR vs RONNIE GARVIN (CAGE) STARRCADE '87 100%

FLAIR BECOMES "FIVE TIME FLAIR" Match in complete

100% Excellent clear quality (11/26/87) Chicago, IL.

27. MUSIC VIDEO: Ric Flair's 5th title reign. Qual: Ex *BRILLIANT!*

to "The Warrior" by SCANDAL

28. Ric Flair is interviewed at CLASH OF THE CHAMPIONS #5. 100%

Need I say more?? (02/15/89) *CLEAR PRINT*

29. Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat (Chi-Town Rumble) 25%. Contains

beginning introductions, and the full ending. (2/20/89) Chicago, IL

30. Ric Flair on the very first DANGER ZONE with Paul E. Dangerously

31. MUSIC VIDEO: "The Final Countdown" 100%

32. Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat (Wrestle War '89) 100% (05/07/89)

Nashville, TN. All in full.

33. MUSIC VIDEO: Ric Flair's 6th title rein

34. STING on wrestling Ric Flair

35. RIC FLAIR vs STING 100% (07/07/90) Baltimore, MD

36. Sting vs The Black Scorpion (Starrcade '90) *end only*

37. Ric Flair vs STING (champ) (01/11/91) East Rutherford, NJ

*Very rare* footage of RIC FLAIR BECOMING A 7TH TIME WORLD CHAMP (JIP)

38. MUSIC VIDEO: Ric Flair's 7th title reign

39. Ric Flair with Lawrence Taylor

40. Ric Flair vs. Tatsumi Fujinami *Unrecognized World Title win*

*last 5%* from Superbrawl '91.

41. WWF'S ROYAL RUMBLE 1992. RIC FLAIR WINS HIS 8TH WORLD TITLE as a WWF

Champion! 75% (01/19/92) Albany, NY

42. RIC FLAIR vs RANDY "MACHO MAN" SAVAGE. Wrestlemania #8 (04/05/92)

43. Closing of the first cassette. What is to come on tape #2.

 

 

 

Tape Name : Comp14: Ric Flair The Legend, Tape 2

Length : 6 hrs

Date : 1997

Rec Quality: Good - Excellent

Match List :

 

 

1. Introduction: "Be Fair to Flair!" Ric Flair explains who's after him

Includes another AWESOME opening RIC FLAIR MUSIC VIDEO that features,

WOMAN, LIZ, and *more* of the best of Ric Flair!! *Also the elderly

lady who bashes Hulk Hogan with her metal cane at the CLASH vs Ric Flair

The song used is "Spiderweb" by NO DOUBT

2. RIC FLAIR vs Randy "Macho Man" Savage (Champ) (09/01/92) Hershey, PA

FLAIR WINS HIS 9TH WORLD TITLE. Qual: SUPERB

3. RIC FLAIR vs BRET "HIT MAN" HART (10/12/92) Saskatoon, Saskatuan,

CANADA WWF title defense for "The Nature Boy" 100%

4. Clash of the Champions *promo*, "The Return of Ric Flair" 100%

5. Arn Anderson on Ric Flair

6. Ric Flair/Arn Anderson vs

The Hollywood Blonds (Steve Austin/Brian Pillman) 100%

From Clash of the Champions May 1993

7. RIC FLAIR vs BARRY WINDHAM 100% (07/18/93) Biloxi, MI

FLAIR WINS HIS 10TH WORLD TITLE! (Beach Blast 1993)

8. Ric Flair interview with FiFi by his side

9. Ric Flair vs Ric Rude 100% (09/19/93) Fall Brawl '93

10. Ric Flair vs Ric Rude (from Halloween Havoc '93)

11. Gene Okerlund conducts a classic interview with Ric Flair

concerning Starrcade 1993 vs. Vader. Loads of footage is shown concerning

their history. 100%

12. RIC FLAIR vs VADER 100% (12/27/93) Charlotte, NC

FLAIR WINS HIS 11TH WORLD TITLE

13. Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat (Spring Stampede)...pin only.

14. ***Unrecognized World Title win*** The interviews and controversy and

the match (Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat 98%) that determined the result of

the held-up title. FLAIR GETS IT BACK! Tony Schavione recognized Flair

as a 12 time champ

15. ***Unrecognized World Title Win*** RIC FLAIR vs STING

Clash of the Champions. Ric Flair and Sting unify the two Gold

belts that are World Heavyweight titles in WCW. The win *isn't*

recognized as a World title win however. Guess who makes his debut

appearance?? (06/23/94) Charleston, SC.

16. TED TURNER administrates the contract signing between RIC FLAIR and

HULK HOGAN ****CLASSIC**** 100%

17. Ric Flair vs Hulk Hogan 100% (07/17/94) Orlando, FL.

The Bash at the Beach

18. RIC FLAIR WANTS TO BE A HULKAMANIAC and explains *why* he was retired.

19. Ric Flair vs Randy "Macho Man" Savage (Starrcade 95) (12/27/95)

Nashville, TN. RIC FLAIR BECOMES A RECOGNIZED 12 TIME CHAMP!

20. MUSIC VIDEO: Ric Flair/Randy Savage fued

21. Ric Flair vs Randy Savage (01/22/96) Las Vegas, NV

WCW MONDAY NITRO 100%

22. RIC FLAIR's *famous* NITRO "shoot" (Savage vs The Giant)

23. Ric Flair vs Randy Savage (CAGE) (02/11/96) St. Petersburg, FL

Superbrawl 6....RIC FLAIR WINS HIS 13TH WORLD TITLE 100%

24. Ric Flair vs The Giant (04/22/96) Albany, GA. WCW Monday Nitro.

25. One week later??

26. Ric Flair vs Hollywood Hulk Hogan (CLASH OF THE CHAMPIONS)

Flair's last World Title shot to be televised.

27. Ric Flair on "The Future"

28. Closing: Ric Flair interview on Lex Luger and The Road Warriors

(September 1988)

29. Closing. MUSIC VIDEO TO CLOSE