Matches that are thought of WAY too highly...

[Adam 0]

Sure, the match was crap, but the LEGACY is why it was so good. It is not overrated.

[Guest Olympic Slam]

- Austin vs. Rock from WM-X7 - The more I see this match, the more I like it. But I can't see how it could be worthy of anything more than ****

 

- Dude Love/Austin from Over the Edge 98 - The match told an awesome story, a great gimmick and historical significance, but the actual match itself is a tad overrated. Mick was super sloppy in this bout.

 

- HHH/Austin vs. Jericho/Benoit - This one falls under the Rock/Hogan category of emotion over quality. There's one thing about this match that bothers me and will always taint the memory forever: when Jericho (the face) pulled Earl Hebner out of the ring to stop an eventual 3-count on Benoit. I'm sorry, but that minor detail RUINED this match for me. The title win itself was still a great moment though, wasn't it?

 

- The 6-Man Hell in a Cell from Armageddon 2000 - Most people have forgotten about this one, but how did this thing get more than ***?

[chaosrage 0]

The one that ALWAYS comes to my mind right off the bat is the Bret Hart vs HBK Iron Man match. Now, while it was a pretty good match and the such, I've just never understood why so many people like it, for a number of reasons. For one, Why the fuck was it an Iron Man match to begin with? What with the ending that it had, it basicly made the entire "Iron Man" match deal worthless. There was only one "fall" and that was AFTER the one hour was up.

It didn't make it worthless. The whole point to the ironman match was to show that they were in fact ironmen, that they could go an hour. If it wasn't for the ironman concept, they wouldn't have any reason not to go all out in the beginning instead of playing it cautious like they did and trying to wear each other down. It's different from other matches, it tries to be more real, that's why so many people love it.

 

Anyway, I don't think I'd be able to take it seriously if Shawn and Bret pinned each other 5 or 6 times. I mean, this is the biggest match of Shawn's career, the moment he's been waiting his whole life for, how would it look if he got pinned with something like a clothesline or even submitted in the sharpshooter? The same goes for Bret, how often did he get pinned clean? Going all the way showed that they had the stamina to do it and also how much it meant for the both of them.

 

Now for HHH/Rock, it was alright, but it made them look weak. When they use long wear down holds in the middle of the match, like someone else said that doesn't make me feel like they're building to anything like HBK/Bret was, it feels like they're just stalling because they're tired. Ross and Lawler made sure to tell us about a hundred times that the longest either one of them had been in the ring was 30 minutes. Then why do it? They could have did it in 30 minutes, took out all the brawling, the stalling, and sped up the action a little bit more and it would have been better. And it wouldn't change the entire match around like it would have for HBK/Hart.

[Guest Just call me Dan]

Lance Strom vs. Edge from SS 01 gets a lot of love as being Lance's only good match, and it supposedly broke ****. I never saw anything really standout about the match, there was no story told and the match had an abrupt finish.

[Guest saturnmark4life]

I can't agree with Rock/Austin being overrated. The references to each participant's histories up to that point were showcased to levels unlike which I have EVER seen in WWE, which is part of the reason I rate it as one of THE best US matches of all time. The buildup was tremendous (The crowd going batshit for the standoff at the December PPV stands out in particular) and the heel turn, whilst somewhat disappointing as a finish, made perfect sense from a storyline point of view due to Austin's admittal he would do ANYTHING for the belt, and it led to some of the greatest promos of his career, and a fine, underappreciated title run. He should have retired after that, it was his last day in the sun.

[Guest Some Guy]

I just watched Bret/HBK WM 12 on Sunday and it is awesome but I prefer more action, which is why I love HBK matches. This match played to Bret's strenghs and hurt Shawn a little. Shawn used to bump all over the place for a good portion of his matches, not lay on the ground and hold a weak armbar for five minutes that Bret didn't sell after it was released. I actually liked their brawl from Survivor Series 97 beter up until the finish. But if that match went to a real finish it would have blown the doors of the Iron Man match.

 

Either way, WWF is finally putting out an HBK DVD and apparently he does commentary on the iron man match (which is supposed to be an extra in full) so we'll hear what he thinks about it.

 

About HBK/Taker HiaC, the only thing I didn't like was the finish with Kane. Shawn should have been planted with a Tombstone and pinned. The stortline leading up to the match dictated that he should have lost.

 

I take that into account with how I rate some matches as well. If the heel wins when he should have lost or vice versa it hurts my enjoyment.

[Guest godthedog]

well, the iron match format in general doesn't play well to shawn's strengths. he can't bump all over the place for an hour straight, a match like that forces you to ground yourself & do a bret or flair-style match.

 

during his big comeback in the last 5 minutes, he was visibly gassed. it seriously played out like a ****1/2 match in slow motion.

 

i always thought the SS97 match was pretty vanilla. they brawl for a while, bret works the knee, & that's about it. no cool near-fall sequences, no big spots, each guy just protecting himself basically.

 

i think their SS92 match is better than both. shawn's a little too liberal with the chinlock, but the pacing's otherwise excellent & it all gelled really nicely. showed the potential of what they could do without ego getting in the way (which we sadly never got to see when shawn was peaking).

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

I actually like the no falls thing in the Iron Match. It reminds me of Creed/Balboa in Rocky I, where Rocky goes the distance but loses the fight. Being Wrestlemania, a happy ending was needed so I had no problem with the overtime.

 

The problems have to do with selling (or lack of) by both participants rendering the psychology pointless, and the poor pacing of the match. They don't slowly build up the match, they rest for 40 minutes and then magically pop-up ready to go for the last 20. Rock/HHH is more enjoyable to watch due to the better psychology, but that ending is a big black mark on the match. Rock really should have won too.

[Guest Kamui]

Geez, some of you guys take HHHate to a whole new level.

 

I freely admit that I was an HHH-mark in 2000, and I still love pretty much anything he did that year, and a lot of his 2001 stuff as well. If we're going on Keith's ratings here, then I will agree that the HHH/Foley matches are a TAD overrated- I'd give them ****3/4 rather than *****- but the rest? No way. HHH/Rock IronMan stands out as one of my favorite all-time matches, and I will agree that the gimmick and booking helped a lot and the ending hurt it, but that shouldn't take away from what it was, and that was a superb wrestling match.

 

HHH/Austin 2 out of 3 falls overrated? Go back and watch the match. The best example of that match's awesomeness would be HHH's selling of the arm- he knew that it wouldn't play into the finish of the second or third falls, so as the match progressed he "shook it off"- still showing that's it in pain, but in less pain than before. Other wrestlers seem to have injuries that just disappear, so this was a very good example of some good psychology.

 

Plus, the psychology of the weapons. Now, psychology doesn't have to just mean selling an injury- the fact that there was a barbed wire 2x4 at ringside and used by HHH and Austin would be, to me, an example of great psychology. Why? Because a year ago at the same event, HHH retired Cactus Jack- and that was his signature weapon. After that match, HHH brings it out every once in a while (seen again at Armageddon '02 against HBK)- it's one of his signature weapons now, because he retired Foley. To me, that's an example of good psychology.

 

 

Okay, enough defending HHH, now matches that I personally find overrated:

 

Austin/Rock WMX7. ****3/4? No way. This match was great, yes, but I'd give it **** at the most. The ending sucked and there was too much weak brawling for my tastes.

 

The entire RVD-Lynn series. I like these matches a lot, and they were probably RVD's last great matches before he became what he is today, but ***** or ****3/4 as I've seen ECW fans tell me? They range from ***1/2-****1/4, but no way they make it to ***** or ****3/4.

 

-Duo

[Guest godthedog]

HHH/Rock IronMan stands out as one of my favorite all-time matches, and I will agree that the gimmick and booking helped a lot and the ending hurt it, but that shouldn't take away from what it was, and that was a superb wrestling match.

the actual wrestling in trips/rock is far from superb.

 

it's a pretty sloppy match, with weak brawling & botched moves all over the place--the ddt, the figure 4 on the wrong leg...the piledriver on rocky looked so sloppy that i feared for his life. bret & shawn show a lot better that they know what they're doing, & almost everything is clean and crisp. compare the chain wrestling. trips & rocky clearly don't really know what they're doing, while bret and shawn can keep it fluid and interesting (there's some great psychology going on in those first 10 minutes that's very rewarding if you just pay close attention to what they're doing). the big moves look noticeably better too. shawn's moonsault at the 55 minute mark especially is a thing of beauty.

 

also, at about the halfway mark of trips/rock, both guys are blown up and the match sloooooooooooows dooooooown sooooooo muchhhhhh........they do long rest spots in between the falls, like the chairshot & the sleeper sequence & the countout. on repeated viewings, it gets pretty boring and the drama just doesn't hold up.

 

also, there's quite a few places where shawn's just talking to them, obviously guiding them through the match, & it just doesn't look very professional.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

If they wanted to go 60 minutes without a fall, then why not just do a 60 minute match? They could have done a TON of things in the ironman match - the possibilities are endless..

 

Steamboat vs. Savage is terribly overrated.

[Guest Mindless_Aggression]

I actually disagree with all the Foley/Taker cell hate. Is it a good match from the technical sense? God no. But I think it's one of the most dramatic matches ever to take place.

 

Obviously you have the 2 massively huge bumps. Thats all people remember, outside of noting that the rest of the match sucked and was sloppy as hell. It was, no question, at least on the sloppy part. But I thought the drama of it all worked magnificently. Foley's selling (well not really selling, he was just legit knocked retarded really) is great all things considered. Everything he does is slow, lumbering and not very well executed. That works if you ask me. It's the ultimate struggle for survival, a guy who has been decimated in every which way is throwing what little he has left at some big monster who just won't stop coming. The moves done in the match look horrible. And it works because Foley has just been thrown off a cage twice. It SHOULD look horrible. Thats why I never really got into the TLC stuff, yes people die and it's fun to watch but they're up minutes later and doing high flying moves perfectly without effort. In Foley/Taker, Foley is so legit decimated that it all looks like crap. And it should. And finally he gets desperate and goes for the tacs but he's so worn down from all the punishment, he ends up suffering them. Tombstone, goodbye.

 

Like I said, a really bad match from a technical standpoint, but if you watch it from a dramatic standpoint, it's quite good if you ask me. A man just keeps fighting and fighting until he can fight no more. Thats cool.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

I agree on the Austin/Benoit - Edminton match being heavily overrated. Probably even more than Austin/HHH or Austin/Rock at WM17.

[Guest NoSelfWorth]

I tried re-watching HBK v Razor I a while ago. I found it dull, and gave it *.

once again, to each his own... but *? Are you insane?

 

* is like Angle vs. Bigshow...

I rewatched it yesterday. I'd now rate it at about ***3/4. A pretty good match, but still very overrated.

[Guest My Eyebrow is on fire]

People really seemed to like X Pac v.s. HHH at Backlash 99. I thought it was boring the entire way through. The "neckwork" was a "resthold" to me - and that's all the match was.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

HHH/Austin 2 out of 3 falls overrated? Go back and watch the match. The best example of that match's awesomeness would be HHH's selling of the arm- he knew that it wouldn't play into the finish of the second or third falls, so as the match progressed he "shook it off"- still showing that's it in pain, but in less pain than before. Other wrestlers seem to have injuries that just disappear, so this was a very good example of some good psychology.

 

That is an example of basic psychology and selling, and it certainly doesn't transform a decent match to a great match.

 

That match is massively overrated. Weak, sloppy looking brawling, a half-injured Steve Austin and some fake barb wire for 45 minutes is hardly the makings of a classic.

 

I agree on the Austin/Benoit - Edminton match being heavily overrated. Probably even more than Austin/HHH or Austin/Rock at WM17.

 

The Austin/Benoit edmonton match is underrated if anything. It was easily the best WWF match of 2001. Austin's performance was utterly awesome, and if it been a PPV main event it would be legendary.

[Guest Rob Edwards]

I'm going to throw the Canadian Stampede main into the equation, sure it was a very good 10 man with great crowd heat, but *****? On what scale can you possibly award that match *****?

[Guest Youth N Asia]

The 92 Rumble. It's good for a Rumble, but just cause Flair wins people put it up way higher then it should be

[EL DANDY~! 0]

In my little review of Stampede in the Old School section, I mentioned that the ME had the most emotion that I've ever seen in a crowd. I'm not lying. The emotion MADE that match. You go in there looking for techincal wizardry, you ain't gonna find shit. You go in there looking for a heated brawl with the crowd on the edge of it's seat the entire way through, you'll find what you're looking for. The 92 Rumble is really good, by the way. It truly was a great match. I believe that even if Hogan or Sid won that match, that it still would have been the best Rumble ever. Flair winning is just the icing on the cake, baby. I still say that's the best Rumble ever.

[Guest godthedog]

the stampede match has spots that lull though (notably some spots when bret, owen and/or austin aren't in the ring). i totally agree that the crowd was absolutely INSANE, but it doesn't make it a ***** match.

[Guest Austin3164life]

Austin/Benoit is often overlooked rather than overrated. There are absolutely NO typical restholds in that match. All the spots where they rest are submission holds which tie in to the psychology of the match. Both guys were perfect, and the somewhat screwy finish barely takes even half a star away from this match (****1/2).

[Guest Ray]

Everything from Shawn Michaels