Hulk hogan

March 28, 2002

As far as Goldberg goes. I think if he had come in at the start of Invasion, then it might have made that storyline work at the very least it would have added credability. The longer he's out the lower his stock is though. One year from now after picking up a fortune every week and with only one federation that could conceivably meet his demands and get a return on him (because Goldberg Vs Jarrett or Bagwell would mean nothing), then I don't see big Bill having much leverage in coming back. At the most I can see the WWF bringing him in for an Austin Showdown, but after two years away and the damage that was done in the last days of WCW i really feel he might be a spent force.

March 28, 2002

Goldberg would be wise not to come back,sure it would be cool to see him a couple times but what would be the point? and as for Hogan I started watching wrestling when I was 5 or so,I'm 21 now Hogan has worn out his welcome his big boot and leg drop of doom! had that "my god that guys done" up till the time I was like 11 or 12 now,I think Hogan should've just stayed away and lived in happy retirement land,right now I like Test better than Hogan,wait a minute...no..yeah! I like Test better than Hogan,he's old,he sucks,and he does nothing but bring the WWF down,Hogan,Nash,Hall=the demise of The WWF,I've said it too many times this is looking more and more like the old WCW

March 28, 2002

Hogan hasn't done anything wrong backstage yet. If he does then fine, Vince should fire him. But at the moment, he's over, he's drawing money and he isn't causing any problems.

I agree with what Mastermind said about Hulk Hogan. He knows what he's talking about.

Oh, and by the way for the guy that said Hogan is older than his dad - Hogan is 48.

March 28, 2002

<<<You are crazy. >>>

Ah, the quiet dignity and respectability of Goldberg marks.

<<<First off, why don't you just read what I have and respond in a clear manner by making paragraphs instead of doing little one liners after everything? >>>

Because this way is better.

<<<You know, like when a poster will say something, then all you do is reply with a liner, and call it a day. And all we have is opinions, but all you can do is refute them by saying the opposite without proof, yet it is supposed to look like that has 'countered' what I have. Then you move on. Brilliant pal.>>>

I actually have the longest replies here and say the most---but hey, that's neither here nor there.

<<It's the most annoying thing in the world and it looks more hackish than KTA writing about HHH hiding from the Underman. Taker. Whatever>>>

Want cheese with that whine?

<<<Look.

Goldberg made people chant and mark out at EVERY victory.>>>

And if he didn't, WCW had that helpful piped-in chant to work wonders.

I still want to know why the toughest, baddest guy in WCW needed protection to leave the locker room when nobody else in WCW needed it.

-WTF??>>>

Should I use smaller words?

OK.

"If fans no cheer, chants piped in. Make big noise. Yay Bill."

<<>>

He DID have them piped. It's not like anybody's making that up. And, again, he stayed over with the few hundred fans WCW had---he didn't BRING MORE FANS to the show---which is the definition of what a draw is.

<<<That's all really.

He was most OVER, most LIKED, most CHEERED, and still the fan's favorite when he was champ or not.>>>

But did fans pay to see him? >>>

<<<He wasn't killing the company by doing a disappearing Hogan ALL of the time.>>>

Which doesn't quite mean the fans would pay to see him.

<<<And he was still more over and VERY credible to the marks.>>>

His crediblility was derived at the expense of the company (as somebody else pointed out, he buried almost everybody---leaving no challengers to him).

<<<And yes, there still are more sales to be had by the loyal marks than whiney smarts. look at how smarts got mad at Bill and his shit, or even Konan while arenas had mark that were screaming ORALE and popping for Sting and Goldberg.>>>

Of course, we smarks, in the end, were correct. WCW is dead and buried---so the crap we didn't like, obviously, most people didn't like.

<<<Even 'stupid' trailer park things like the Nitro girls were enjoyed by marks and not booed off their sets. >>>

You seem to mistake "not getting booed off the sets" for "drawing fans".

<<<They actually respected the kiddie/silly aspects of WcW.>>>

Yet the company was sold cheap to the WWF. How silly of me to question their practices

<<<That helped the company. Marks love Goldberg. When Goldberg was looking his worst, sales for pay per view fell since the heel turn sucked. Who was going BOOOOOOO posterboy Goldberg, you suck.>>>

And, as we all know, Goldberg tried to make that heel turn work, didn't he?

<<<He still rocked thier worlds and when he was rising (not Hogan) and won belts. Why were there no bigger WcW stars getting pops like that? HE was over and was a good cash cow for them at one point. He carried them at one point>>>

When he was "hot", WCW was losing the ratings consistently, watching their PPV numbers dwindle, and watching their attendance drop.

Interesting definition of "carrying" you got there.

<<<Man you sound wacked. Goldberg never carried his company. He may have lost some fans (you smarks) but he's still wanted in the WWF by fans, believe me and the marks who liked him. >>>

I love this whole "The Noble Mark" mentality. Us smarks are the problem for daring to criticize.

If plenty of fans wanted to watch GB---WHY DIDN'T THEY?

WCW needed the help.

<<>>

I can make you look bad without doing that, don't worry.

<<<When Nash sent the show to kliq levels of gayity Bill was still a monster that everybody loved. Marks, that is.

He kept interests in wcw when marks thought that russo made no shred of sense. He stayed most over, thus giving the illusion that the company still had their ICON intact and their viewers watching>>>

He also griped about wrestling incessantly, made a joke of himself repeatedly, never learned to actually work...

I don't blame him for burying talent, though. That was the fault of horrible booking.

<<>>

Make cogent points---something you MIGHT wish to work on in the future.

<<<He never sold tickets when he was winning belts and quickly rising? You flipped out?>>>

Attendance was dropping. Check out the numbers.

<<<Does that have ANY relevence to what I said.>>>

No, but what you wrote was meaningless.

<<<He buried, blah blah, he whined >>>

Yup.

<<<BIG DEAL. >>>

WCW is dead now. It WAS a big deal.

<<<That wasn't what I was saying. Don't read between the lines or you'll assume too much. Does whining stop him being over? Or from being a star? What the heck son?>>>

No, him not drawing fans worth a darn make him not a star.

<<<Would GB be over? Maybe a little.

Would he DRAW? No.

Woud he be a headache backstage? All signs point to yes

Haa! This is the worst part.

You just throw questions at yourself and then answer them. WTF?!!>>>

Well, I want intelligent answers. It's either I wait for you to answer them or I take care of the problem myself.

<<<Hey KTA, do think Goldberg licks his toenails, and if he would he'd taste Bret's grey matter? Yes

Would it taste good? No

Would he still lick at it again? Yes

Is that how you argue with other people? >>>

No, most people aren't quite as irrational as you.

<<<. . . yes

Look, you THINK that Goldberg isn't intact in wit his rep with the fans, he NEVER sold anything (now I can take that out of your context Quote-But did fans pay to see him?), and because he whined about Jericho he'll never be wanted on the WWF shows. Jus like Nash>>>

He challenged Steve Austin to a fight on the Tonight Show. He went after HHH at a licensing convention. He criticized wrestling whenever he was interviewed by somebody not attached to the wrestling business. He was a jerk backstage. He nearly severed his arm because he lost control during an idiotic segment involving a limo.

Yeah, that's a guy I'd spend money on.

<<<Yeah? Sure

He won't draw, only the Orange Vagina Brock could do that in the WWF. And also Edge an his weak bodied spear wil get over with the crowd. An Rhyno and his gore right? Yet here the wwf will have no interest in him and his gimmick and will NEVER even dream of making pale imitations of a character that wouldn't draw a dime.

They wouldn't? Wait-They already have.>>>

Who's the pale imitation? Gillberg?

<<<And vince has talked to him cuz he likes his possiblity for being a star. That proves me wrong right? No>>>

Vince talked to a lot of people. If he could've gotten GB for what he got guys like Hugh Morrus for, he'd have signed him.

<<<The rest of you are like this

He killed Bret, he kicked the cockfighters (heh) he said that, so now he never DREW?? MONEY?? You're all bitter and hopeless if you think he NEVER sold a dime. Craze bret fans eh? >>>

Attendance was dropping when he was "hot". Nitro lost the ratings almost every single week when he was "hot".

You say he drew based on what, exactly?

-=Mike

...Undressing the mystique of GB since 2001

March 29, 2002

Man, grow a sack and be a man already

Why are you going around the forum misquoting everyone with bs rplys? I only called you on the 'line by line' thing because it's called 'taking things out of context.'

It's better? How is that?

Look at what you said earlier

<<<Like him or not, Hogan and Vinnie Mac changed wrestling. Without Hulk Hogan, Eric Bischoff would be selling meat out of the back of a truck in Minneapolis.>>>

>>Isn't that what he's doing now anyway?

No, he DID take NITRO to the top, he did make nWo a sucees (has Vince?) and he done made wCw a winner at one time. DId you even answer that or did you think, oh LOOK.

A CHEAP SHOT, i'll never answer that and I'll just make a funky funny!! WEEEEE

That is a good arguement you made since it asn't related to his DIRECT statement. That's like trying to down people all the week long.

Look

"well little Mike - was former actor Ronald Reagan ever a U.S. President?"

"Mean the guy who can't even remember who he is? PING-ZOW"

You see, you don't even answer the damn thing!

You take the line by line context and twist every little word. Good one , Now get a life.

And most of the time you take a single line that was a STATEMENT and answer them in a Q n A format!? W THE FUCK!??!?You're wacked out brother@#!@!

All ya do is quote the one line that (you have CAREFULLY selected) is out of context, and twist it into a stupid reply.

But it's that you are using those one liners to answer everything that makes it just look DUMB. You can't argue with anyone using pathetic posturing and partial/unrelated statments like you have. And you had that for the WHOLE friggn thread! You look like you're trying to be smart and funny with your zingers, but your just not adequately argueing the post.

>> I actually have the longest replies here and say the most---but hey, that's neither here nor there.

I have longer everything, especially in my crotchal area -

All you say is it's better the format, but how pal? You don't explain yourself

it's just better cause you said it is - so you THINK you are right! Where's you reference and stance? It changes every other line to be the funny bunny or a 'smark.'

<<It's the most annoying thing in the world and it looks more hackish than KTA writing about HHH hiding from the Underman. Taker. Whatever>>>

>>Want cheese with that whine?

with the joke about myself, all I was showing was that I have a sense of humor about everything. Again, here you'd even have no respect for me - and yourself - - by turning that as statement about whining and like I wasn't trying to lighten up the mood with my words.

I point out something yet you just can't help but take what I'd said and make yourself look petty, can you? Grow up mike

Also, I said 'yeah they were piped in, and he's still a frickin star. That is all. '

Why would You think that someone like me (KTA) who is only making a remark for the PHENOM KNOWN AS GOLDBERG and that he's over; is somehow DEFENDING his history of injuries , whining and about how GOLD once started chasing HHH through a convention sceaming? How is the statement "He's still over to this day and made it look like wcw's ICON is still intact" even REMOTELY excusing him from anything else? I said that and you just called out that they were piped in, WHOA. Your a frickin whizz kid junior. I SAID THAT ALREADY.

>Should I use smaller words?

And here's SMALL wait

here's-smal-words-for-ya

hewasstiloverwhenetheystoppedpippinginchants.

That's why when he went to Canada and they said something like the effect of "Goldberg Sucks" he was shook since his meathead didin't comprehend what was going on with the different heel reaction he was getting. Brilliant point sherlok

And even more silly 's the fact that you are trying to COUNTERPOINT my statement by actually AGREEING with what I said.

He piped them in. Yeah, I said that.

You are even sayin that when he wasn't getting chants (mostly at the beginning) they got him over with piped chants! You are agreeing with me right there, he got over with piped chants. Show me where I didn't say that home.

Defintion of a draw - man puts asses in seats. SO did he ever draw? You don't think MARKS liked the wcw's TOP GUY? Good one, right there bucky. Nibody liked him, sure.

Keep trying though, you'r not quite argueing wit me as much as you are trying that counterpoint line-line shti k . It makes you look like you don't know what you are discussing. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH I'll take this line BLAH BALH BLAH Oh he didn' sell because I think he's an evil dangerous man. BLAH BLAH Eric is poor now (right) BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLABLAH

So now Who's whining when all I do is point out that fans liked him? Are you de-funked and have no objectivity, since now people like me who are being objective, and doesn't even like GB, yet I know that marks like goldberg - has instantly become labeled a 'whiner?'

PFFFTTTTTT get off your high horse

People want to see Goldberg, live with that. People wanted to see Goldberg vs. Austin. He was on many covers of mags. They made him famous and helped him gain a legion of fans. You're not thinking wth your business mind if you can't - barring other mishaps in BG life, recognize that he can make you some chunk of money by wrestling in the pro's.

Then you say that his CREDIBILITY was derived from destroying the roster. So he DID have some cred you're saying! Really; you just said soo yerself! He destroyed their jobbers and and still looked good! THAT'S WHAT I SAID! And you just keep agreeing with my previous posts in a nonsensical 'anti-thesis' line-line form.

Trying to 'disprove GB' right

Wow, maybe you should write more professionally and in paragraph format where YOUR thoughts are more clear.The next time you will realize that I already had made the same statements that you have 'magically' now agreed to

>You seem to mistake "not getting booed off the sets" for "drawing fans".

Yeah because NO ONE likes to look at SKy, Kim Paige, or SPice and it killed their ratings, thus being the opposite of a draw yeah? Prove otherwise causel CRZ and adolescents always liked them, but it's not like they actually liked pretty girls . . .

CRZ liked Spice, I liked Chae, and I like SKy/ Hancock. SO what, they didn't get booed off and shit they even had a popular FAN CLUB!! ANd a PPV for them! I was in school with one tryout girl (the busty one who could speak sign language) and even though I KNOW she didn't like wrestling she watched the Nitro Girls! They are famous dancers who are on a 2 mill + show that is viewed nationwide and is full of people who would want see them dance! I don't know if you know about how dancers aren't grown into stardom overnight and how tough it is for that profession to be well paid AND on TV as a 'character', but it's not a nice journey. Dancers make a lot of money stripping, not ballet shows.

SO they weren't over as 'draws', yet they had dancers across the globe tryout, and a crowd of people always watching them dance on tryout session since it's WcW - that isn't some community college cheerleader tryout okay? But to you they were booed despite being around Nitro and it's entire existance and performing SEVERAL TIMES A NIGHT. Over + helping the company look good and hiave a pleased audience. When did they hurt the sales and detract viewers? I know people who watched and went to the Nitro shows for Nitro Girls AND as well as other things. It's called 'environment'. And their Nitro Girl PPV was made and sponsored. Not like a struggling AWF has that has struggled with Identity and market.

I'm not fraid to say it about them I LIKED THE SILLY NITRO GIRLS FOR TWO MEASLY MINUTES OF A THREE HOUR WRESTLING SHOW!! I WILL PROTECT YOU ZULI!!

also, into the minds of their wcw stable, the AWESOME aquisitions weren't cheap. They are out of business NOT because of their ratings. The boom had made WWF marks to watch ATTITUDE, and it didn't flood swarms to the wwf athat left WcW since they were still very consistant (prior to the boom) wi ratings close to with what they always had. They fell away into debt trying to compete with an attitude they weren't allowed to reach. And Eric is a bitch that spent money when they're not making enough to cover the ends. I don't know if you know anything about running a business but even if AT&T makes a nice chunk of cash every year, if they spend MORE THAN THEY NEED TO ON MIKE AWESOME AND SATURN than they' d make than just by STICKING TO THE SCRIPT then they'd be on this week and weekend. GIving phone bills. Debt lost them; cause of KISS and Storm etcetera, Eric paid everyone more than they were worth. To you that means that WCW's main man never drew and never sold a dime? Prove that too buddy hack.

They lost fans; that happens with every damn business. You think at ONE time GOLDBERG WASN'T THE ICON and put fans on their Seats and to the shows? THINK about it, he's their TOP KING ASSKICKER. UT sells tickets too, and I wouldn't like him, but he'd help your fed get in good business. Tell me Goldy would not draw great heat if he pops in the wwf today. Tell me he wasn't known enough that he never drew at one time in his life.

Proof = dark shows were known and reported to have fans walk out if A) there was a cancelled Gold and B) if his squash match ended. That right there proved that he SOLD SEATS and was pushed as their unstoppable top man forever. The WWF is losing fans right now, should they just FIRE THEIR ICONS like Rock, STeve, Kurt, HHH, And UT since their formula has lost some fans? Or now that if that hapens, they the WWWF will DRAW the same wothout their top men?

And Goldberg ,as their flagship wrestler, should not be looked on as a seller or even be USED today evers since his boss spent money on doofs and cost the company it's problems? How is poor booking for the whole fed ONE MAN'S (GOLDBERG) fault?

But yet, to you Goldberg is not a draw since fans love the horsedrinker and marked for the company's top guy everytime he wrestled. HE WAS THEIR DRAW, poor or great worker, piped or not, the sheep loved him,I can realize that; HE CARRIED THEM when Book man wasn't liked for his G.I. Bro joke and Hogan was killing the nWo. He was their mainstaying STAR

Marks like WcW for it's standards, and If I can thnk about it, they really lost fans with DIRTY MOUTH VINC RUSSO. Yeah who are you to question how any business is run judging Goldberg, while he was only a follower and he is NOT a business man. When you have a niche (KEYWORD), and a STAR; and then fuck with it and throw around MORE cash then you have sending the business into a semi porn/viagra pole match into MaCMan's hands you blame GOLDBERG? That was Eric and V RUSS, not Goldberg; they drained his cash cow until they were lost and couldn't find what to do. They were the boss. He was still their MAN mikey. Hate him all you want (disproving Goldberg, WTF?! Are you going to uncover how he does a jackhammer which is a modified form of a suplex and cry about how he got over with that while HOgan was still above everybody in the same company by simply using a legdrop? There is no logic to you and when you say he's not a draw. Nitro CAncelled, no, sold due to books not adding up, truth. Mike awesome wasn't worth the money etc. pal)

Also Flair CARRIED his fed the nWa when he had OLE ANDERSON BOOK dumb Black Scorpion angles. Flair walked out okay in the fan eyes and was their top heel - thus carrying the company out of death for the (temporary)time being. Every company goes and Flair HELPED THEM cus he kept his fan interest as their top guy. Bill had done the same on many occasions because the fans loved him regardless of the nWo and Flock not selling ticketz. WHy do you think that to draw you have to have an EVERLASTING hold that can save a company when their books aren't handled right? RVD is a draw and his company is gone.

So by you and your holy smark attitude he probably never sold seats and made the company look good because he was their only bright star at one point and made fans cheer like crazy. They probably cheered by accident ( AND I MEAN THAT HEAT AND HIS POPS THROUGHOUT HIS CAREER ) and only paid to get in to see Guido and didn't care if he was in the company or not. Since Goldberg did the same he probably sucked to the markz' eyes and only made fans pay to see Lenni and LOdi right?

A draw is a draw, and without GOldberg who were they paying to see? Muta? Juvi? Booker who barely got half pop half booos? WHo then - Nash was their main draw? Wrong it was the booty face Bill. Get over youself and disproving Bill.

YOU Spending money on him or not for a company(!!???), HE SOLD TICKETS! May be in your twisted smark world he can never MAKE MONEY IN THE WWF for THEM, but Goldberg was WAY more over than NASH HALL AND GOBLIN SURFAH as far as CROWD REACTION. So don't hire him. fine. Whatever that man, get Lowki; and just realize that Goldberg made them all look like their company can be built around a star like him. They may've dropped the potato on him and their accounts back then - but he was still what they needed. His potential was there to be Hoagn 2k. Don't blame him that they made hotshotted stuff and wrote him in a corner. Hogan squashed fools for years and gave Vince LOTS of money, almost the same character, just booked better - longevity speaking. They still had the same 80'z fans from before and he would have been more green for the company if Eric didn't play games with his friends and depush short guys. That is this fed that should been a more healthy environment that would feed the Goldberg his Hogan heat. That = money

You answering questions with jokes and line-line or just tosing snide remarks randomly thrown in an effort to look "smart" are lame.

I'm a GB mark you said?

>Ah, the quiet dignity and respectability of Goldberg marks.

Your nothing more than a one-liner pest. Where did I say that moi, KTA, likes Goldy?

You just throw questions at yourself and then answer them. WTF?!!>>>

>Well, I want intelligent answers. It's either I wait for you to answer them or I take care of the problem myself.

If you are TOO DAMN TIRED TO WAIT FOR A RESPONSE THAN WHY ARE YOU EVEN POSTING A QUESTION. I WROTE, YOU WROTE/RODE my words AND THEN YOU CAN'T WAIT#^!!*???????

See that well, since you are so high or you horse, (if you're not into that maybe you're elsewhere on it he he) that HEY

You don't even need a response so you get them done yourself

Well la di da bucky.

>Who's the pale imitation? Gillberg?

Pale imitations? I wrote that stuff previously!

Gore GOre GOORREEE (where's his leeched off imtation heat when he was out there john? where?) or calling a takedown a SPEAR SPEAR SPEAR (that's a coinky dink yeah) and Brock

Brock is being called by everybody who is a 'journalist' as a star with a LOT of Goldberg in him as far as potential is concerned. The guy Gberg never drew huhh?

You didn't answer SHIT again and then posted ONE SENTANCE ASKIN A QUESTION WHICH WAS ANSWERED. who is the imitaion, Are you even appraoching an agruement w an open mind and READING WHAT I SAID.

(IM CROTCH CHOPPING MIKEY EVER SINCE 2002 MARCH 28)

Please tell me how he ISN'T A STAR in wrestling that made his whole company look like they made a star who is waiting to be tapped wi potential. Like he's as good as Hugh Morrus and is as "big" a draw as him that he'd warrant the same money as him in his contract. Vince likes GB like he likes step child Mike Tyson. They are some animals that have made, and possibly can make a draw(no definates in life). You have a good as crack(ers) backup arguement.

March 29, 2002

I seem to have touched a nerve. Alas.

<<<Man, grow a sack and be a man already>>>

I do so miss the wit and slicing sarcasm of the high school set.

<<<Why are you going around the forum misquoting everyone with bs rplys? I only called you on the 'line by line' thing because it's called 'taking things out of context.' >>>

Said the guy who selectively cuts and misquotes me incessantly here.

Well, I don't expect consistency out of ya.

<<<It's better? How is that?>>>

Lets you know exactly what is being replied to. If you feel something is taken out of context, feel free to gripe.

<<<Look at what you said earlier

<<<Like him or not, Hogan and Vinnie Mac changed wrestling. Without Hulk Hogan, Eric Bischoff would be selling meat out of the back of a truck in Minneapolis.>>>

>>Isn't that what he's doing now anyway?

No, he DID take NITRO to the top, he did make nWo a sucees (has Vince?) and he done made wCw a winner at one time. DId you even answer that or did you think, oh LOOK. >>>

Ah, sarcasm is lost upon you. I'll remember that next time.

<<<A CHEAP SHOT, i'll never answer that and I'll just make a funky funny!! WEEEEE>>>

Eric took a company backed by a huge media group and had his BUTT handed to him by a smaller company. He was successful for 2 years (1996 and 1997) out of his WCW career (1993-1999).

But, hey, I guess he WAS overall successful. Darn me and my expectations that a successful guy be successful MOST of the time.

<<<That is a good arguement you made since it asn't related to his DIRECT statement. That's like trying to down people all the week long.>>>

It was a witty retort. Nothing to get so bent out of shape over.

<<<Look

"well little Mike - was former actor Ronald Reagan ever a U.S. President?"

"Mean the guy who can't even remember who he is? PING-ZOW">>>

Ah, humor at the expense of a great man with Alzheimer's. Truly you are a class act.

<<<You see, you don't even answer the damn thing! >>>

What was the direct question? Your comment:

"Like him or not, Hogan and Vinnie Mac changed wrestling. Without Hulk Hogan, Eric Bischoff would be selling meat out of the back of a truck in Minneapolis"

What, exactly, am I supposed to be responding to? What question did I not answer? How 'bout this---if Hogan didn't wrestle---somebody else would have filled his slot. That's the closest thing to a response to your non-question.

<<<You take the line by line context and twist every little word. Good one , Now get a life. >>>

It's not like you actually ASKED anything.

<<<And most of the time you take a single line that was a STATEMENT and answer them in a Q n A format!? W THE FUCK!??!?You're wacked out brother@#!@!>>>

And you invent things I wrote.

<<<All ya do is quote the one line that (you have CAREFULLY selected) is out of context, and twist it into a stupid reply.>>>

I replied to your ENTIRE post.

You, on the other hand, replied to very few parts of mine. Oh well.

<<<But it's that you are using those one liners to answer everything that makes it just look DUMB. You can't argue with anyone using pathetic posturing and partial/unrelated statments like you have. And you had that for the WHOLE friggn thread! You look like you're trying to be smart and funny with your zingers, but your just not adequately argueing the post.>>>

Again, what exactly was I not responding to properly? You made a dig at EB and I joined in on the fun.

>> I actually have the longest replies here and say the most---but hey, that's neither here nor there.

<<>>

Hint: Guys who are big don't really have to broadcast it to the world.

Just thought you'd like to know.

<<<All you say is it's better the format, but how pal? You don't explain yourself>>>

I reply to everything and let you know EXACTLY what is being replied to.

It also can shows that I don't selectively edit posts I'm replying to.

You might wish to try that.

<<<it's just better cause you said it is - so you THINK you are right!>>>

Everyone THINKS they are right. If not, you can't really argue.

<<<Where's you reference and stance? It changes every other line to be the funny bunny or a 'smark.'>>>

Hey, it's a gift.

<<It's the most annoying thing in the world and it looks more hackish than KTA writing about HHH hiding from the Underman. Taker. Whatever>>>

>>Want cheese with that whine?

with the joke about myself, all I was showing was that I have a sense of humor about everything.>>>

Oh, that was humor?

Liberal definition of the term ya got there.

<<<Again, here you'd even have no respect for me - and yourself - - by turning that as statement about whining and like I wasn't trying to lighten up the mood with my words.>>>

Gee, why would I have no respect for a poster who posts as if he were still in high school? Can't figure out why.

<<>>

I disagreed with you. It seems to have pissed you off to no end, though.

<<<Also, I said 'yeah they were piped in, and he's still a frickin star. That is all. '>>>

And I said that when the fans didn't chant, the piped-in chants could always fill in for them.

<<<Why would You think that someone like me (KTA) who is only making a remark for the PHENOM KNOWN AS GOLDBERG and that he's over; is somehow DEFENDING his history of injuries , whining and about how GOLD once started chasing HHH through a convention sceaming?>>>

I was pointing out that the headaches and problems that he brings to the table don't make up for whatever drawing power he hasn't demonstrated since 1998.

<<<How is the statement "He's still over to this day and made it look like wcw's ICON is still intact" even REMOTELY excusing him from anything else? I said that and you just called out that they were piped in, WHOA. Your a frickin whizz kid junior. I SAID THAT ALREADY.>>>

You call him an "icon"? Interesting choice of words.

>Should I use smaller words?

<<<And here's SMALL wait

here's-smal-words-for-ya

hewasstiloverwhenetheystoppedpippinginchants. >>>

He didn't draw fans after 1999.

When he left in 2000, ratings weren't hurt. Attendance wasn't hurt.

When he returned in 2000, ratings weren't helped. Attendance wasn't helped.

When he "retired" in 2001, ratings weren't hurt. Attendance wasn't hurt.

Yet you claim he was a draw.

<<<That's why when he went to Canada and they said something like the effect of "Goldberg Sucks" he was shook since his meathead didin't comprehend what was going on with the different heel reaction he was getting. Brilliant point sherlok>>>

What, precisely, are you attempting to argue at this point?

<<<And even more silly 's the fact that you are trying to COUNTERPOINT my statement by actually AGREEING with what I said. >>>

Your circular logic has lost me at this point.

<<<He piped them in. Yeah, I said that.

You are even sayin that when he wasn't getting chants (mostly at the beginning) they got him over with piped chants! You are agreeing with me right there, he got over with piped chants. Show me where I didn't say that home.>>>

If I AGREE with you, in your own words, why are you so darned upset?

<<<Defintion of a draw - man puts asses in seats. SO did he ever draw?>>>

Through 1998, yes. Afterwards, no.

<<<You don't think MARKS liked the wcw's TOP GUY? Good one, right there bucky. Nibody liked him, sure. >>>

Fans LIKE a lot of guys. Fans LOVE Duggan. Always have. Fans LOVE Dusty Rhodes.

They don't PAY to see them now. They haven't done so in years.

<<<Keep trying though, you'r not quite argueing wit me as much as you are trying that counterpoint line-line shti k . It makes you look like you don't know what you are discussing. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH I'll take this line BLAH BALH BLAH Oh he didn' sell because I think he's an evil dangerous man. BLAH BLAH Eric is poor now (right) BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLABLAH>>>

You behave as if you were saying that Eric was successful and I disagreed with the assertion.

Fact is, you NEVER made the assertion---though I would've disagreed.

<<<So now Who's whining when all I do is point out that fans liked him? Are you de-funked and have no objectivity, since now people like me who are being objective, and doesn't even like GB, yet I know that marks like goldberg - has instantly become labeled a 'whiner?' >>>

You're a whiner because you're griping about a whole bunch of nothing. You're belief that Goldberg is a draw is just wishful thinking.

<<<PFFFTTTTTT get off your high horse>>>

I like my high horse.

<<<People want to see Goldberg, live with that. People wanted to see Goldberg vs. Austin. He was on many covers of mags. They made him famous and helped him gain a legion of fans. You're not thinking wth your business mind if you can't - barring other mishaps in BG life, recognize that he can make you some chunk of money by wrestling in the pro's. >>>

BUT---the money he can make you won't likely overcome the price you have to pay to have him work for you.

<<<Then you say that his CREDIBILITY was derived from destroying the roster. So he DID have some cred you're saying! Really; you just said soo yerself! He destroyed their jobbers and and still looked good! THAT'S WHAT I SAID! And you just keep agreeing with my previous posts in a nonsensical 'anti-thesis' line-line form. >>>

Again, why are you so upset then? It is illogical.

<<<Trying to 'disprove GB' right

Wow, maybe you should write more professionally and in paragraph format where YOUR thoughts are more clear.The next time you will realize that I already had made the same statements that you have 'magically' now agreed to>>>

I never said GB didn't have "credibility". His cred was derived at the expense of the company, but he had "cred". However, from 1999 on, he didn't draw.

>You seem to mistake "not getting booed off the sets" for "drawing fans".

<<<Yeah because NO ONE likes to look at SKy, Kim Paige, or SPice and it killed their ratings, thus being the opposite of a draw yeah?>>>

Again, you're arguing points I never made.

One more time: YOU ARE CONFUSING NO GETTING BOOED OFF OF THE STAGE FOR DRAWING FANS.

Fans didn't hate them---but if the Girls weren't there, they didn't care.

<<<Prove otherwise causel CRZ and adolescents always liked them, but it's not like they actually liked pretty girls . . .

CRZ liked Spice, I liked Chae, and I like SKy/ Hancock. SO what, they didn't get booed off and shit they even had a popular FAN CLUB!! ANd a PPV for them! I was in school with one tryout girl (the busty one who could speak sign language) and even though I KNOW she didn't like wrestling she watched the Nitro Girls! They are famous dancers who are on a 2 mill + show that is viewed nationwide and is full of people who would want see them dance! I don't know if you know about how dancers aren't grown into stardom overnight and how tough it is for that profession to be well paid AND on TV as a 'character', but it's not a nice journey. Dancers make a lot of money stripping, not ballet shows. >>>

Wow, way to bring up a completely irrelevant tangent here.

They didn't draw fans. They didn't HURT WCW---but they didn't HELP, either. It's really not that complicated a premise.

<<<SO they weren't over as 'draws', yet they had dancers across the globe tryout, and a crowd of people always watching them dance on tryout session since it's WcW - that isn't some community college cheerleader tryout okay? But to you they were booed despite being around Nitro and it's entire existance and performing SEVERAL TIMES A NIGHT.>>>

Again with the misquoting of me, eh?

Never said they got booed. I said they didn't draw fans.

And you have the audacity to say that I misquote people?

<<<Over + helping the company look good and hiave a pleased audience. When did they hurt the sales and detract viewers?>>>

I didn't say they HURT---I said they didn't HELP. It's like Essa Rios. I liked his work fine. I'm not going to be so idiotic as to say that he drew fans. He didn't turn them away from the arena, but he didn't draw them in.

<<>>

If they went there "for other things", then by definition, they weren't there for the Nitro Girls.

<<<It's called 'environment'. And their Nitro Girl PPV was made and sponsored. Not like a struggling AWF has that has struggled with Identity and market.>>>

Again, you're arguing points not made by myself.

<<<I'm not fraid to say it about them I LIKED THE SILLY NITRO GIRLS FOR TWO MEASLY MINUTES OF A THREE HOUR WRESTLING SHOW!! I WILL PROTECT YOU ZULI!!>>>

I never said I didn't like them.

I said they didn't draw fans.

Again, you have no room to complain about anybody misquoting anybody else.

<<<also, into the minds of their wcw stable, the AWESOME aquisitions weren't cheap. They are out of business NOT because of their ratings. The boom had made WWF marks to watch ATTITUDE, and it didn't flood swarms to the wwf athat left WcW since they were still very consistant (prior to the boom) wi ratings close to with what they always had. They fell away into debt trying to compete with an attitude they weren't allowed to reach. And Eric is a bitch that spent money when they're not making enough to cover the ends. I don't know if you know anything about running a business but even if AT&T makes a nice chunk of cash every year, if they spend MORE THAN THEY NEED TO ON MIKE AWESOME AND SATURN than they' d make than just by STICKING TO THE SCRIPT then they'd be on this week and weekend. GIving phone bills. Debt lost them; cause of KISS and Storm etcetera, Eric paid everyone more than they were worth. To you that means that WCW's main man never drew and never sold a dime? Prove that too buddy hack.>>>

Well, since again you're arguing points not made by anybody, I will still attempt to respond.

I didn't say GB caused WCW's death. I said he did nothing to help things. He didn't. Live with it. Eric's inept management and Russo's horrendous writing killed the company. The talent just didn't do anything to overcome it.

<<<They lost fans; that happens with every damn business. You think at ONE time GOLDBERG WASN'T THE ICON and put fans on their Seats and to the shows? THINK about it, he's their TOP KING ASSKICKER. UT sells tickets too, and I wouldn't like him, but he'd help your fed get in good business.>>>

UT sells tickets? Funny how hard the WWF fell from WM X-7 until Judgment Day 2001 with UT as the top face, isn't it?

<<<Tell me Goldy would not draw great heat if he pops in the wwf today. Tell me he wasn't known enough that he never drew at one time in his life.>>>

He drew until 1998. After that, he didn't.

He was Ultimate Warrior for this decade.

<<<Proof = dark shows were known and reported to have fans walk out if A) there was a cancelled Gold and B) if his squash match ended.>>>

Never saw a single report of that---of course, WCW had so few house shows over their last few years.

<<<That right there proved that he SOLD SEATS and was pushed as their unstoppable top man forever. The WWF is losing fans right now, should they just FIRE THEIR ICONS like Rock, STeve, Kurt, HHH, And UT since their formula has lost some fans? Or now that if that hapens, they the WWWF will DRAW the same wothout their top men?>>>

If GB was such a draw, why did his departure in 2000 not hurt ratings?

Why did his return not help ratings or buyrates?

Why did his "retirement" in 2001 not hurt buyrates or ratings?

<<<And Goldberg ,as their flagship wrestler, should not be looked on as a seller or even be USED today evers since his boss spent money on doofs and cost the company it's problems? How is poor booking for the whole fed ONE MAN'S (GOLDBERG) fault? >>>

And if you can point to where I said WCW died because of GB, I'll be amazed.

<<<But yet, to you Goldberg is not a draw since fans love the horsedrinker and marked for the company's top guy everytime he wrestled. HE WAS THEIR DRAW, poor or great worker, piped or not, the sheep loved him,I can realize that; HE CARRIED THEM when Book man wasn't liked for his G.I. Bro joke and Hogan was killing the nWo. He was their mainstaying STAR>>>

Look at the ratings, attendance, and buyrates for 2000. GB's departure and return didn't make any difference.

<<<Marks like WcW for it's standards, and If I can thnk about it, they really lost fans with DIRTY MOUTH VINC RUSSO. Yeah who are you to question how any business is run judging Goldberg, while he was only a follower and he is NOT a business man. When you have a niche (KEYWORD), and a STAR; and then fuck with it and throw around MORE cash then you have sending the business into a semi porn/viagra pole match into MaCMan's hands you blame GOLDBERG?>>>

Again, I didn't blame GB for WC's downfall. You REALLY should try to read.

<<<That was Eric and V RUSS, not Goldberg; they drained his cash cow until they were lost and couldn't find what to do. They were the boss. He was still their MAN mikey. Hate him all you want (disproving Goldberg, WTF?!>>>

Okay, I have to know---what the heck is with this "disproving Goldberg"? I have NO clue what you're writing about here.

<<<Are you going to uncover how he does a jackhammer which is a modified form of a suplex and cry about how he got over with that while HOgan was still above everybody in the same company by simply using a legdrop? There is no logic to you and when you say he's not a draw.>>>

Hmm, why do I say he's not a draw?

1999 --- attendance, ratings, and buyrates steadily fall.

2000 --- GB gets hurt in January. Ratings not hurt. Buyrates not hurt. He returns. Ratings not helped. Buyrates not helped.

2001 --- GB retires. Ratings not hurt. Buyrates not hurt.

Why, exactly, do you say he IS a draw?

<<<Nitro CAncelled, no, sold due to books not adding up, truth. Mike awesome wasn't worth the money etc. pal)

Also Flair CARRIED his fed the nWa when he had OLE ANDERSON BOOK dumb Black Scorpion angles. Flair walked out okay in the fan eyes and was their top heel - thus carrying the company out of death for the (temporary)time being. Every company goes and Flair HELPED THEM cus he kept his fan interest as their top guy. Bill had done the same on many occasions because the fans loved him regardless of the nWo and Flock not selling ticketz. WHy do you think that to draw you have to have an EVERLASTING hold that can save a company when their books aren't handled right? RVD is a draw and his company is gone.>>>

Your Flair example seems quite pointless, but so be it.

GB didn't draw from 1999 on. Try and prove otherwise.

<<<So by you and your holy smark attitude he probably never sold seats and made the company look good because he was their only bright star at one point and made fans cheer like crazy. They probably cheered by accident ( AND I MEAN THAT HEAT AND HIS POPS THROUGHOUT HIS CAREER ) and only paid to get in to see Guido and didn't care if he was in the company or not. Since Goldberg did the same he probably sucked to the markz' eyes and only made fans pay to see Lenni and LOdi right?>>>

You come across like a raving lunatic. You realize that, don't you?

GB didn't draw from 1999 on. Is it really that hard to follow?

<<<A draw is a draw, and without GOldberg who were they paying to see?>>>

Judging by their attendance numbers and buyrates, they weren't paying at all.

<<<Muta? Juvi? Booker who barely got half pop half booos? WHo then - Nash was their main draw? Wrong it was the booty face Bill. Get over youself and disproving Bill.>>>

But he didn't draw anybody. Paid attendance hovering around 1,000? Buyrates in the .2 range?

Not quite the stuff great draws are made of.

<<<YOU Spending money on him or not for a company(!!???), HE SOLD TICKETS! >>>

Not many---and not NEARLY enough to warrant the pay he demands.

<<<May be in your twisted smark world he can never MAKE MONEY IN THE WWF for THEM, but Goldberg was WAY more over than NASH HALL AND GOBLIN SURFAH as far as CROWD REACTION.>>>

You are, YET AGAIN, arguing points I never made.

And, to inform you, I hated the signing of the nWo guys as well.

<<<So don't hire him. fine. Whatever that man, get Lowki; and just realize that Goldberg made them all look like their company can be built around a star like him. They may've dropped the potato on him and their accounts back then - but he was still what they needed. His potential was there to be Hoagn 2k. Don't blame him that they made hotshotted stuff and wrote him in a corner. Hogan squashed fools for years and gave Vince LOTS of money, almost the same character, just booked better - longevity speaking. They still had the same 80'z fans from before and he would have been more green for the company if Eric didn't play games with his friends and depush short guys. That is this fed that should been a more healthy environment that would feed the Goldberg his Hogan heat. That = money >>>

I feel like a broken record here---

He...did...not...draw...from...1999...until...WCW's...death.

<<<You answering questions with jokes and line-line or just tosing snide remarks randomly thrown in an effort to look "smart" are lame.>>>

Why should I bother when you'll just invent things I said to gripe about?

<<<I'm a GB mark you said?>>>

Yup.

>Ah, the quiet dignity and respectability of Goldberg marks.

<<<Your nothing more than a one-liner pest. Where did I say that moi, KTA, likes Goldy?>>>

Your insane defense of him speaks volume.

<<<You just throw questions at yourself and then answer them. WTF?!!>>>

>Well, I want intelligent answers. It's either I wait for you to answer them or I take care of the problem myself.

<<<If you are TOO DAMN TIRED TO WAIT FOR A RESPONSE THAN WHY ARE YOU EVEN POSTING A QUESTION.>>>

I'm not too tired. I'm just pessimistic about your capacity to answer intelligent.

<<>>

I've seen your intellectual level in your writing.

And, I might add, you lived up to my expectations.

Fortunately, I suffer fools gladly.

<<<See that well, since you are so high or you horse, (if you're not into that maybe you're elsewhere on it he he) that HEY>>>

Ah, more of that incisive high school wit? Truly riveting stuff.

<<You don't even need a response so you get them done yourself

Well la di da bucky.>>>

Wow, aren't you pissed off?

>Who's the pale imitation? Gillberg?

<<<Pale imitations? I wrote that stuff previously!>>>

That was a DIRECT quote from the post I replied to. Go back and re-read your post.

<<<Gore GOre GOORREEE (where's his leeched off imtation heat when he was out there john? where?) or calling a takedown a SPEAR SPEAR SPEAR (that's a coinky dink yeah) and Brock?>>>

Oh, Goldberg invented the whole spear thing? Got it.

And he's the only guy who annihilated people? Gee, I remember Vader doing that---but hey, I guess you're right.

<<<Brock is being called by everybody who is a 'journalist' as a star with a LOT of Goldberg in him as far as potential is concerned. The guy Gberg never drew huhh?>>>

I've not heard a soul say that Brock had anything involving Goldberg outside of the WWF giving him the "Goldberg" push---which could also be called the Vader in WCW push of 1992.

<<<You didn't answer SHIT again and then posted ONE SENTANCE ASKIN A QUESTION WHICH WAS ANSWERED. who is the imitaion, Are you even appraoching an agruement w an open mind and READING WHAT I SAID.>>>

You are irrational.

<<<(IM CROTCH CHOPPING MIKEY EVER SINCE 2002 MARCH 28)

Please tell me how he ISN'T A STAR in wrestling that made his whole company look like they made a star who is waiting to be tapped wi potential.>>>

One more time:

1999 --- he's there. Ratings drop. Attendance drops. Buyrates drop.

2000 --- he's injured. Ratings don't drop. Buyrate for Souled Out 2K is actually double what it was for Starrcade 1999.

2000 --- he returns in June. Attendance stays low. Buyrates stay low. Ratings stay low. No increase.

2001 --- He retires. Attendance stays low. Buyrates stay low. Ratings stay low.

<<<Like he's as good as Hugh Morrus and is as "big" a draw as him that he'd warrant the same money as him in his contract. Vince likes GB like he likes step child Mike Tyson. They are some animals that have made, and possibly can make a draw(no definates in life). You have a good as crack(ers) backup arguement.>>>

Do you know how unintelligent and wholly irrational you come across here?

If I didn't find you so funny, I'd have ignored you.

-=Mike

...Don't worry, I'm not laughing at you---okay, I am laughing at you.

March 29, 2002

Hey, ya sucked

Let me show you what you do here, and maybe it can help you understand in your 'stick-up-the-ass attitude.

<<<Man, grow a sack and be a man already>>>

I do so miss the wit and slicing sarcasm of the high school set

Or how about you trying all of the previous shit first? Quoting the weakest things and they really had no context from what I had argued

<<<That's all really.

He was most OVER, most LIKED, most CHEERED, and still the fan's favorite when he was champ or not.>>>

But did fans pay to see him?

Well let's see, fans pay tickets to see a show and generally have fun and "mark out."

Or, to you, they only come if there is a VERY SPECIFIC kind of draw, who somehow IMPROVES the financial situation for the company. Yet, actually, anybody who the fans are willing to pay for and see wrestle is technically a 'draw.' That's why they have ratings and merchandise scales. They show WHO is on top of merchandising and who's making fans switch the channel.

Follow me, now that I'm speaking in simple, small words for you?

You see, if the fans watch Hardcore Holly for the third highest rating portion of the night, the WWF sees that the fans like him, and he can draw viewers.

If they tell by their merchandising department that he's selling t-shirts by the boatload, than he has drawn them money.

You see, your logic will state that Goldberg wasn't the fan favorite and he can't draw, when he stayed TREMENDOUSLY over for his whole reign.

Question - the fans come to see shows for people that make them happy, or rather, "mark out."

The fans aren't getting in so they can sit on their hands and watch Prince Iakea dropkick motherfuckers.

Therefore, who are they paying to see? The men and women that they pop for thats who.

SO when those shows were lame, and like I said (you don't respond to a quarter of what I said there since you only twist each word out of context) Eric and Vince didn't book a good show as evident by the non-heat people got from Silver King and Medusa and Vampiro. So when the show was bad, who'd they want to see? WHo do you think they actually paid to see at that time.

Low rung performers to JTTS' that had low levels of heat normally, or the stars of the company?

Just by definition, if fans paid to see Goldberg vs. Hogan or Sting, they drew.

If the fans are quiet throughout the entire Nitro save for a scant Lucha spot and some Nitro girls dancing (people DID watch for them) and nothing else that they'd seriously mark out for then why would they even watch it at all?

For the stars. There is why I KNOW people paid to see Goldberg. They ALWAYS came to their feet and popped for him to the last days.

Despite what some other "official smart" may tell you, it's not just one man that will sell out tickets consistantly across the world at every show, it's the overall product.

Terry Bolea was lucky with Vince, because he had a show which would supprt his drawing power. A product that kept marks comming back because of utilized undercard talent like Mach Man in his prime, JYD, BRET HART, JAKE the Snake ROberts and the Undertaker. No books were mishandled into treacherous debt; Along wit PPV matches not given routinely on free air, they had made Terry set for a decade of good money for everyone.

Goldberg did have that heat, and his federatin fizzled when his company got lost and fell off track. He still reigned supreme however, in every way. Heat, interst, ratings of the night in Nitro, and pops.

Oh wait, by now you've lost your arguement and made have about 99% of your post about ME. I only refer to you when it's based in your statements, not when you baltantly lie about every tiny thing . . .

How's that now you are becoming so sensitive?

You called me GB mark (where did that come from) and after that there you have posted about me primarily. I wrote A LOT of lines about NITRO and GOLDBERG'S past and present heat and you only choose the lines that you can base a personal attack on me with.

How's that sound to everyone when you can't write about Goldberg.

I think what you don't undestand here is that I only post to have a time waster (and you're a good one. No, wait then you are pretty boring; you must be really too slow at reading anyone's POST and not lines) with this shit and I wouldn't worry if Bret drive s his car into Goldy and never draws again in his life because of his injury. However, You take this entre thing in such an uptight, anally fixated, non-humorous stance and while in such a condensending manner that I can only feel a little annoyed for that type of garbage hiding behind nerdy language.

It's like you take this whole shit TOO far while you're entirely off-base.

<<<Look

"well little Mike - was former actor Ronald Reagan ever a U.S. President?"

"Mean the guy who can't even remember who he is? PING-ZOW">>>

Ah, humor at the expense of a great man with Alzheimer's. Truly you are a class act.

I have to respond to this dumb and meaningless attack first that you'd rather present then an actual arguement.

You have to be a little more broad with your range of what humor is, and to be able to recognize it if you really have a sense of humor don't you?

Or is it that you happen to base lame jokes (which are all but gone from you NOW . . . . it's just a loser attack force field you must have when you can't find your arguement that you have) and passive aggressive lines at people all over the board. It's already lame to begin with and I don't know why you never actually argue but you only 'imply' that people are wrong.

Look

<<It's the most annoying thing in the world and it looks more hackish than KTA writing about HHH hiding from the Underman. Taker. Whatever>>>

>>Want cheese with that whine?

with the joke about myself, all I was showing was that I have a sense of humor about everything.>>>

Oh, that was humor?

Liberal definition of the term ya got there.

Ha! You still don't respect yourself and you don't even contain a sense of humor to begin with? Any damn reason why you go around spitting worthless lines and have the gall not to recognize other people's jokes so you attack them . . .

Then since you can't realize my attempt was to be kind and poke fun at myself at the same time as I playfully critisized you that you make another ridiculously off-centered one liner?

Humor is your gift?

Not if you don't know how to read into words and jabs.

Oh wait, that's your passive/aggresive thing right?

CHeese whine - WHHAAAT how BRILLIANT - in a anal sort of way from you. But that's expected.

I call a spade a spade. If I joke about Raegan than how is cry about all you want, but I don't dance around the fucking names I throw around to people since it's not right to passively snap on peole out of nowhere with sorry one liners trying to look like I'm a smark.

You say I'm whining because I believe that Goldberg drew at one point in the beginning; and that I'm a Human rights activist mark.

Passive/agressive bull. And very biased, but I already proved that I NEVER was a GB mark and now you don't bring that up. You just pulled out of your ass to attack me. That's class on yur behalf

Must be your 'class' when you realized you made a mistake and stopped calling me a fan just now; Or you made yourself into an anus and just quieted with that part.

<<<You take the line by line context and twist every little word. Good one , Now get a life. >>>

It's not like you actually ASKED anything.

Again, you twist everything. You are saying that GB didn't draw.

Where's our proof?

Do you have a special ticket taker that says "total that want to see Hogan, Total that want to see Konnan, Total that want to see Benoit"

DO you have that special power?

No, the only way to distinguish the fan favorites and the crowd's interest is to learn the heat of crowds that are at the shows.

You don't realize it, yet a 'draw' never meant; lead a resurgance against the wwf. It doesn't mean IMPROVE the entire company. Flair tried but his nWa still sank.

He drew when the company was falling in the shitter though

RVD drew when he was in ECW

Goldberg drew when Russo didn't attract fans with his crash-Teevee.

How do I know?

Well heat buddy, it means that those who scream at the top of their lungs at a good part of the show are happy to see those wrestlers.

They paid to see those wrestlers.

Either that or they only paid to watch a show until Goldberg left.

Oh you didn't talk about that did you?

You said that I didn't quote you right (must sting like a bitch for ya) yet you were asking ME how did he draw.

WHen fans went to a show and left after Goldberg, then they paid to see him. When marks cheered LOUDEST for him when he got out then that means that they have paid a ticket in order to see that superstar perform in the ring.

And when you said that attendance fell, I have PREVIOUSLY told you (prolly where you got the idea to delete that part and bring up the opposite point in order to look like my last post didn't bring it up. YOu are a prick at this point) . . .

That all businessses fall, and have a downpoint. I even told you that Eric fucked the money up and hurt the rest of the show.

But you didn't talk about that.

It made you see logic and business management as keys.

And you couldn't detract Bill anymore.

They lost fans, but who did the remaining fans see and cheer?

Goldberg, bucky. It's only logic to assume that it's suz Goldberg when he was on, the guy brought the most out of his fans and therefore, they went to see him an to get involved in the show a la cheer Goldberg.

You don't understand since you are too busy saying that Goldberg has a mystique and answering your own questions (You aren 't doint that now though) and that you don't THINK people will pay so they can see their favorite wrestler and cheer for him.

He got the most heat and pops, so they came to see him and participate in their shows.

WHen Eric couldn't book a non nWo show he made the rest of the show and it's producition values (look it up, tough guy will you) look bad.

Yet Goldberg didn't.

The fans still paid to see him and mark for him.

A lot of marks were also fans of HOgan, Nash and Hall, however you wouldn't admitt that they had fans and heat since that would mean that they were the only draws inside of their company.

WHo's fault is that? We are aware of Ruso and Eric leading to the demise (they'd leave stars disgusted and disgruntled} and since ted needed SELL THE FED IN ORDER TO MAKE SOME PROFIT INSTEAD OF HAVING MIKE AWESOME STEAL AN ECW BELT AND MAKE THEM LOSE VALUABLE MONEY.

Hey, all businesses fall, and the only guys who were pushed were the real draws. That means Bill, Hulk, BRET, NASH, and STING.

Whether or not you realize how a market works, - well stick to sports entertainment dreaming jonny. You are doing poorly at destroying a mystique which some already understand in terms of profit, budget, writing and production values. DOn't like Goldberg? Tough. You will never be able to tell anyone that fans didn't pay to see the heat machine Goldberg until you prove WHO the fans actually paid for when they attended by 'reading their ticket aura'

Stick to sports writing on the internet chum, cause you don't know squat about making a point, reading into human behavior and self-depreciating humor, and what makes a business function properly. If you get a job at some paper than don't become a snesationalist like you are here, because your passive/aggressive behavior makes for a melodramatic line-line read of cheap shots. Real journalist write stories and don't quote ONE SENTANCE that the columnist chooses to and mouths off from there. Those guys are the epitimy of newspaper trash.

If I come across as angry that's just my nature, I didn't mean to speak down to you.

Maybe you will grow one day and then learn to let loose and have fun while being objective

In the meantime learn to answer intelligently and have some kind of humor about this, and not to go line-line like a 99 Scotsman would do while he was only trying to insult others in the name of fun. SInce you don't have the capacity to be funny or argue, there is some evidence that you shouldn't do it.

Have a coke and a smile, jackass

March 29, 2002

Eric took a company backed by a huge media group and had his BUTT handed to him by a smaller company. He was successful for 2 years (1996 and 1997) out of his WCW career (1993-1999).

But, hey, I guess he WAS overall successful. Darn me and my expectations that a successful guy be successful MOST of the time.

You're right that Eric wasn't successful most of the time, but he was the most successful booker that WCW ever had. He was the only one to take WCW ahead of the WWF in the ratings. Nash, Sullivan, Russo & Ferrara destroyed WCW. Although i'd say he was succesful between 95 and 98 because during those years WCW were either ahead of the WWF or close to them in the ratings.

About Goldberg

I think WCW made a big mistake in the way they handled him. Bischoff did the right thing by having him squash everyone in the mid card, but he made the mistake when he put Goldberg over the Upper Carders so quickly. His win over Hogan wasn't deserved so quickly, he should have defended the US Title some more and then he should have won the World Title around Starrcade of that year when it would have meant more.

Kevin Nash destroyed Goldberg by ending his winning streak at Starrcade 98 and then dropping the Title to Hogan the next week on Nitro. Goldberg's pops started dropping after they changed his music, then started to play second fiddle to (red & yellow) Hulk Hogan. Vince Russo then decided to turn Goldberg heel (Bischoff had no power then) which was a big mistake because a) no-one wanted to boo him, b) It was billed as "the biggest suprise of all time" and was a real let down and c) Goldberg didn't want to be a heel. Then he turned face with no explanation and Russo put him in the stupidest angle of all time asking him to do the winning streak again starting from the bottom. Bischoff came back and tried to get him out of the angle jobbing him to "Totally Buff" and he was going to be brought back when Fusiant brought the company.

I think that if he was booked better after 98 then he would have been the next Hulk Hogan, the way it is now Goldberg is going to end up the next Ultimate Warrior unless he takes a buy out from the WWF or if Ted Turner starts up a new Wrestling Promotion which i'm guessing Goldberg will be eligable to Wrestle for. He is still a big name and the WWF will definatly want to sign him when his contract runs out, if only to stop him from signing for the WWA or the XWF.

March 29, 2002

Goldberg has proven many times that a) he has no love for the sport, b) he has no respect for the sport, and c) he has no desire to return to the sport. There are many interviews where he badmouths wrestlers (HHH, Austin, etc.) and the WWF as a whole, especially in terms of the mature content. (His remarks about the Fed not helping out during 9-11 were not only rude and petty, but were also inaccurate as well... nice going, Bill.)

I for one don't see Goldberg coming to the WWF, let alone wrestling in general because the ones who would want to hire him can't afford him and the ones who could afford him (WWF) either can't stand him or know he's d cause worse locker room morale than all the Kliq members combined.

Let the fat cat wallow in his Turner blood money for the next year or however long he gets it. He's not missed.

$0.02

March 29, 2002

Amen....

Screw Goldturd. That flash in the pan never cared for the business like Luger and I for one will be glad when his nifty Turner contract runs out and he starts begging for a job.

March 30, 2002

<<<Hey, ya sucked

Let me show you what you do here, and maybe it can help you understand in your 'stick-up-the-ass attitude.

<<<Man, grow a sack and be a man already>>>

I do so miss the wit and slicing sarcasm of the high school set

Or how about you trying all of the previous shit first? Quoting the weakest things and they really had no context from what I had argued>>>

Again with this I'm "misquoting" you crap? What, exactly, was misquoted? I included every single word you wrote. Every...single...word.

<<<That's all really.

He was most OVER, most LIKED, most CHEERED, and still the fan's favorite when he was champ or not.>>>

But did fans pay to see him?

Well let's see, fans pay tickets to see a show and generally have fun and "mark out."

Or, to you, they only come if there is a VERY SPECIFIC kind of draw, who somehow IMPROVES the financial situation for the company. Yet, actually, anybody who the fans are willing to pay for and see wrestle is technically a 'draw.' That's why they have ratings and merchandise scales. They show WHO is on top of merchandising and who's making fans switch the channel. >>>

You got it. Good boy. A draw SHOULD improve the financial status of his promotion.

If he does not---then he's not a draw. He's just another performer.

<<<Follow me, now that I'm speaking in simple, small words for you?

You see, if the fans watch Hardcore Holly for the third highest rating portion of the night, the WWF sees that the fans like him, and he can draw viewers. >>>

Who is Holly facing? If Holly wasn't involved, would the numbers be lower or higher? You see, questions like that dictate who a draw is.

I like Lance Storm. He isn't a draw.

<<<If they tell by their merchandising department that he's selling t-shirts by the boatload, than he has drawn them money.>>>

And, by the same token, you should also be able to trace an upturn in attendance, ratings, and/or buyrates in correlation to his push or else----he isn't a draw.

<<You see, your logic will state that Goldberg wasn't the fan favorite and he can't draw, when he stayed TREMENDOUSLY over for his whole reign.>>>

No, my logic says that GB was popular, but he didn't draw fans to the arena after 1998.

<<<Question - the fans come to see shows for people that make them happy, or rather, "mark out." >>>

Time fora brief news flash: From 1998 until the death, fans STOPPED coming to WCW shows. That's a small problem.

<<<The fans aren't getting in so they can sit on their hands and watch Prince Iakea dropkick motherfuckers. >>>

But, if they aren't showing up AT ALL---then they aren't showing up to see Bill, either.

Is it really this hard to follow?

<<<Therefore, who are they paying to see? The men and women that they pop for thats who. >>>

Again, Duggan got good pops. Fans didn't go to shows because he was there. In ECW, 911 was crazy over---nobody came to the shows because of him, though. They just cheered him while they were there.

It's like cheerleaders. Whe I go to my alma mater's football games, I do it to watch the games, not the cheerleaders. I LIKE the cheerleaders and enjoy gawking at them, but I'd go to the games if they weren't there.

Thus, they didn't draw me to the stadium.

<<<SO when those shows were lame, and like I said (you don't respond to a quarter of what I said there since you only twist each word out of context) Eric and Vince didn't book a good show as evident by the non-heat people got from Silver King and Medusa and Vampiro.>>>

I responded to everything, so don't even try whining. No, fans didn't come to see Silver King, Madusa, and Vampiro.

But, since attendance was plummeting, they didn't come to the show PERIOD.

Silver King didn't draw. Madusa didn't draw. Vampiro didn't draw. And, lo and behold, GB didn't draw.

Get it yet?

<<<So when the show was bad, who'd they want to see? WHo do you think they actually paid to see at that time.>>>

When you routinely have paid attendance at TV shows of around 1,000 and PPV shows of 3,000---but your top "draws" are still getting paid multi-millions a year---then your top draws aren't drawing enough to warrant their salary.

If I could sign GB for $50,000/year, would I do it? In a moment.

For his $2-3M/year deal? Not a chance.

<<<Low rung performers to JTTS' that had low levels of heat normally, or the stars of the company?>>>

When the fans stop coming, then obviously, the problem must lie with the stars. If a company sees its attendance drop through the floor in short order, how are the "draws" innocent?

<<<Just by definition, if fans paid to see Goldberg vs. Hogan or Sting, they drew.>>>

And GB drew in 1998. He didn't after 1998. Attendance was helped by his apperances and wasn't hurt by his absences.

<<<If the fans are quiet throughout the entire Nitro save for a scant Lucha spot and some Nitro girls dancing (people DID watch for them) and nothing else that they'd seriously mark out for then why would they even watch it at all?>>>

Again, at what point did I say people didn't watch the Nitro Girls? I said they didn't go to the arenas to see them. If the Girls WEREN'T at the arena, WCW would not have lost one fan.

<<<For the stars. There is why I KNOW people paid to see Goldberg. They ALWAYS came to their feet and popped for him to the last days.>>>

But FEW PEOPLE paid to see him. VERY few. Thus, his drawing power was, at best, VERY weak.

<<<Despite what some other "official smart" may tell you, it's not just one man that will sell out tickets consistantly across the world at every show, it's the overall product.>>>

BUT, GB was, far and away, the top guy in WCW. He was the focus of their programming for long stretches of time. Nobody approached him in terms of being over.

Yet, numbers weren't hurt by his absence and weren't helped by his return.

Explain that, please.

<<<Terry Bolea was lucky with Vince, because he had a show which would supprt his drawing power. A product that kept marks comming back because of utilized undercard talent like Mach Man in his prime, JYD, BRET HART, JAKE the Snake ROberts and the Undertaker. No books were mishandled into treacherous debt; Along wit PPV matches not given routinely on free air, they had made Terry set for a decade of good money for everyone. >>>

Yes, they did. And they also ran his schtick too long and it stopped drawing. Bollea WAS a huge draw. Now, his drawing power is still ffy.

<<<Goldberg did have that heat, and his federatin fizzled when his company got lost and fell off track. He still reigned supreme however, in every way. Heat, interst, ratings of the night in Nitro, and pops.>>>

Show me some numbers. I can point to PPV where he was in the ME that did half of the numbers of shows where he didn't appear. I can point to PPV buyrates a month before his return that were just about the same as the one where he DID return.

<<<Oh wait, by now you've lost your arguement and made have about 99% of your post about ME. I only refer to you when it's based in your statements, not when you baltantly lie about every tiny thing . . . >>>

I've not referred to you, sorry to disappoint. And, please, point to a lie. Feel free.

<<<How's that now you are becoming so sensitive? >>>

What the heck are you trying to say?

<<<You called me GB mark (where did that come from) and after that there you have posted about me primarily. I wrote A LOT of lines about NITRO and GOLDBERG'S past and present heat and you only choose the lines that you can base a personal attack on me with. >>>

You mistake disagreement with personal attacks.

Please note, I have not discussed YOU until this moment while you've trashed me in this post repeatedly.

<<<How's that sound to everyone when you can't write about Goldberg.>>>

I'm supposed to care?

<<<I think what you don't undestand here is that I only post to have a time waster (and you're a good one. No, wait then you are pretty boring; you must be really too slow at reading anyone's POST and not lines) with this shit and I wouldn't worry if Bret drive s his car into Goldy and never draws again in his life because of his injury. However, You take this entre thing in such an uptight, anally fixated, non-humorous stance and while in such a condensending manner that I can only feel a little annoyed for that type of garbage hiding behind nerdy language.>>>

But, hey, at least you don't refer to me all the time, right?

<<<It's like you take this whole shit TOO far while you're entirely off-base.>>>

Um, okay.

<<<Look

"well little Mike - was former actor Ronald Reagan ever a U.S. President?"

"Mean the guy who can't even remember who he is? PING-ZOW">>>

Ah, humor at the expense of a great man with Alzheimer's. Truly you are a class act.

<<>>

YOU made the comment. You made the irrelevant comment and I called you on it. Stop the incesant whining.

<<<You have to be a little more broad with your range of what humor is, and to be able to recognize it if you really have a sense of humor don't you? >>>

If that's your idea of humor, I'll remain humorless.

<<<Or is it that you happen to base lame jokes (which are all but gone from you NOW . . . . it's just a loser attack force field you must have when you can't find your arguement that you have) and passive aggressive lines at people all over the board. It's already lame to begin with and I don't know why you never actually argue but you only 'imply' that people are wrong. >>>

I'm not IMPLYING---I'm flat out saying that you're completely wrong.

And the constant flaming of me by you is absurd.

<<<Look

<<It's the most annoying thing in the world and it looks more hackish than KTA writing about HHH hiding from the Underman. Taker. Whatever>>>

>>Want cheese with that whine?

with the joke about myself, all I was showing was that I have a sense of humor about everything.>>>

Oh, that was humor?

Liberal definition of the term ya got there.

<<<Ha! You still don't respect yourself and you don't even contain a sense of humor to begin with? Any damn reason why you go around spitting worthless lines and have the gall not to recognize other people's jokes so you attack them . . . >>>

No, I don't respect YOU. I recognize jokes when there is comedic value. Since there is no comedic value...

<<<Then since you can't realize my attempt was to be kind and poke fun at myself at the same time as I playfully critisized you that you make another ridiculously off-centered one liner? >>>

Again, I constantly refer to you, right? I mean, this is a LONG stretch of you just attacking me at this point.

<<<Humor is your gift?

Not if you don't know how to read into words and jabs.>>>

Wit is lost upon the witless.

<<<Oh wait, that's your passive/aggresive thing right? >>>

Great, Psych 101 now? Can you discuss wrestling and stop embarrassing yourself in your hopeless attempts to "analyze" me?

<<<CHeese whine - WHHAAAT how BRILLIANT - in a anal sort of way from you. But that's expected. >>>

Wow, STILL obsessing over that line, huh?

<<<I call a spade a spade. If I joke about Raegan than how is cry about all you want, but I don't dance around the fucking names I throw around to people since it's not right to passively snap on peole out of nowhere with sorry one liners trying to look like I'm a smark.>>>

I assume you have a point, but your illogical diatribe is making it hard to figure out what it is your griping about here.

<<<You say I'm whining because I believe that Goldberg drew at one point in the beginning; and that I'm a Human rights activist mark. >>>

Wow, just adding in things, huh? Wasn' aware that human rights was mentioned at any point, but hey, continue inventing.

<<<Passive/agressive bull. And very biased, but I already proved that I NEVER was a GB mark and now you don't bring that up.>>>

How did you PROVE it? By saying you weren't? Well, then, forgive me. I beseech you.

<<<You just pulled out of your ass to attack me. That's class on yur behalf>>>

Yes, it is. Of course, you haven't just spent the longest time here trashing me.

No, of course not.

<<<Must be your 'class' when you realized you made a mistake and stopped calling me a fan just now; Or you made yourself into an anus and just quieted with that part.>>>

You come across as an irrational child, quite frankly.

<<<You take the line by line context and twist every little word. Good one , Now get a life. >>>

It's not like you actually ASKED anything.

<<<Again, you twist everything. You are saying that GB didn't draw.>>>

AFTER 1998, for the love of GOD. Is it REALLY that hard to follow?

And it's called DISAGREEING with others.

<<<Where's our proof?

Do you have a special ticket taker that says "total that want to see Hogan, Total that want to see Konnan, Total that want to see Benoit">>>

You say he was a draw.

I point out that attendance, buyrates, and ratings dropped like a rock after 1998 with him as the top guy. I point out that when he left in 2000, ratings and buyrates didn't go down. When he returned, they didn't really go up.

I make my point FAR better than you make yours.

<<<DO you have that special power?>>>

It's called "looking at numbers". Not a special power.

<<<No, the only way to distinguish the fan favorites and the crowd's interest is to learn the heat of crowds that are at the shows. >>>

BUT IF PEOPLE STOP COMING TO SHOWS, THEN THE DRAW ISN'T DRAWING FANS.

<<<You don't realize it, yet a 'draw' never meant; lead a resurgance against the wwf. It doesn't mean IMPROVE the entire company. Flair tried but his nWa still sank.>>>

Again, inventing comments. A "draw" draws fans to the arena in numbers to justify his salary. GB did not. The number of fans Goldberg "drew" PLUMMETED after 1998.

Why not just use the "Nobody drew in WCW at that time" line and save yourself the humilation?

<<<He drew when the company was falling in the shitter though>>>

Attendance of about 1,000 for TV tapings. Buyrates hovering in the .2 range. Great work that Bill guy did.

<<<RVD drew when he was in ECW

Goldberg drew when Russo didn't attract fans with his crash-Teevee.>>>

I don't think GB, in 2000, drew a rating as high as the 4/10/00 Nitro.

<<<How do I know?

Well heat buddy, it means that those who scream at the top of their lungs at a good part of the show are happy to see those wrestlers. >>>

I'll just look at ratings, attendance, buyrates, and heck, I'll even look at the company's bottom line---a $60-$80M loss in the year 2000.

Keep going with heat---I'll go with verifiable evidence.

<<<They paid to see those wrestlers.>>>

No, they clearly did not---or else the number of comps at WCW shows wouldn't have regularly outnumbered the number of paying customers.

<<<Either that or they only paid to watch a show until Goldberg left.>>>

WCW put him on last regularly.

<<<Oh you didn't talk about that did you? >>>

Yes, I did, actually.

<<<You said that I didn't quote you right (must sting like a bitch for ya) yet you were asking ME how did he draw.>>>

Again, I have ratings, buyrates, attendance, and WCW's bottom line to justify my statements.

You have...what, exactly?

<<<WHen fans went to a show and left after Goldberg, then they paid to see him. When marks cheered LOUDEST for him when he got out then that means that they have paid a ticket in order to see that superstar perform in the ring.>>>

Again, the attendance at house shows was SO bad they STOPPED doing house shows. Fans didn't pay to see GB, obviously.

<<<And when you said that attendance fell, I have PREVIOUSLY told you (prolly where you got the idea to delete that part and bring up the opposite point in order to look like my last post didn't bring it up. YOu are a prick at this point) . . .>>>

Agin, you keep on saying that I'm cutting out parts of your post.

I challenge you right here---find ANYTHING of your post I eliminated in my reply.

ANYTHING.

You can't do it--because I don't do that---unlike you.

<<<That all businessses fall, and have a downpoint. I even told you that Eric fucked the money up and hurt the rest of the show.>>>

The booking was bad. I never argued that.

The contracts were absurd. Never argued that.

But, again, you seem to excuse the DRAWS from ANY of the blame.

The DRAWS weren't DRAWING fans.

<<<But you didn't talk about that.>>>

I actually did.

Repeatedly.

<<<It made you see logic and business management as keys. >>>

I read your entire posts and POST THE ENTIRE POST.

You don't do that.

Don't state that I ignore parts of your post when the entire thing is in my reply. Word for word.

<<<And you couldn't detract Bill anymore.>>>

What the heck does THIS mean?

<<<They lost fans, but who did the remaining fans see and cheer?>>>

When you lose more than half of your audience, then your draw has failed you.

If GB offered to cut his pay in proportion to the number of fans he no longer drew (and the other WCW ME'ers followed suit), WCW would be alive.

<<<Goldberg, bucky. It's only logic to assume that it's suz Goldberg when he was on, the guy brought the most out of his fans and therefore, they went to see him an to get involved in the show a la cheer Goldberg.>>>

I'm tired of repeating the same points you ignore.

<<<You don't understand since you are too busy saying that Goldberg has a mystique and answering your own questions (You aren 't doint that now though) and that you don't THINK people will pay so they can see their favorite wrestler and cheer for him.>>>

It's not that I don't THINK fans didn't pay to see him.

I have VERIFIABLE proof.

<<<He got the most heat and pops, so they came to see him and participate in their shows.>>>

Yeah, sure, whatever. Now, you're boring me.

<<<WHen Eric couldn't book a non nWo show he made the rest of the show and it's producition values (look it up, tough guy will you) look bad.>>>

Yeah, sure, whatever. I love that Eric and Russo are to blame---but somehow, top draw GB has NO blame in the WCW downfall.

<<<Yet Goldberg didn't.

The fans still paid to see him and mark for him. >>>

Of course, can you explain away 2000 and why his departure didn't hurt ratings and why his return didn't help them?

Just curious.

<<<A lot of marks were also fans of HOgan, Nash and Hall, however you wouldn't admitt that they had fans and heat since that would mean that they were the only draws inside of their company.>>>

You seem to be missing the whole "THEY WEREN'T DRAWING" part of this. Oh well.

<<<WHo's fault is that? We are aware of Ruso and Eric leading to the demise (they'd leave stars disgusted and disgruntled} and since ted needed SELL THE FED IN ORDER TO MAKE SOME PROFIT INSTEAD OF HAVING MIKE AWESOME STEAL AN ECW BELT AND MAKE THEM LOSE VALUABLE MONEY.>>>

Eric, like an idiot, signed Hogan, Nash, and GB to deals that FAR overcompensated them for their minimal worth the company.

<<<Hey, all businesses fall, and the only guys who were pushed were the real draws. That means Bill, Hulk, BRET, NASH, and STING.>>>

And if they don't draw, what does that say about them?

<<<Whether or not you realize how a market works, - well stick to sports entertainment dreaming jonny. You are doing poorly at destroying a mystique which some already understand in terms of profit, budget, writing and production values. DOn't like Goldberg? Tough. You will never be able to tell anyone that fans didn't pay to see the heat machine Goldberg until you prove WHO the fans actually paid for when they attended by 'reading their ticket aura'>>>

By the SAME token, you can't prove that they paid to see him, either.

I can always point to 2000.

<<<Stick to sports writing on the internet chum, cause you don't know squat about making a point, reading into human behavior and self-depreciating humor, and what makes a business function properly. If you get a job at some paper than don't become a snesationalist like you are here, because your passive/aggressive behavior makes for a melodramatic line-line read of cheap shots. Real journalist write stories and don't quote ONE SENTANCE that the columnist chooses to and mouths off from there. Those guys are the epitimy of newspaper trash.>>>

But, again, you seldom reference me, right?

Why am I not replying to this paragraph of drivel? Because it's so poorly though-out, poorly written, and devoid of content that I'd waste my intellect and developing the point you so horribly failed to produce yourself in order for me to respond.

<<<If I come across as angry that's just my nature, I didn't mean to speak down to you.>>>

You come across as an irrational juvenile.

<<<Maybe you will grow one day and then learn to let loose and have fun while being objective>>>

From the previous sentence: "I didn't mean to speak down to you".

Yup, sounds 'bout right.

<<<In the meantime learn to answer intelligently and have some kind of humor about this, and not to go line-line like a 99 Scotsman would do while he was only trying to insult others in the name of fun. SInce you don't have the capacity to be funny or argue, there is some evidence that you shouldn't do it.>>>

Yeah, sure, whatever. Again, MORE insults? Do you have any good material at least?

<<<Have a coke and a smile, jackass >>>

Nope, no good material, obviously.

-=Mike

...Laughing at you presently.

March 30, 2002

<<<Quote

Eric took a company backed by a huge media group and had his BUTT handed to him by a smaller company. He was successful for 2 years (1996 and 1997) out of his WCW career (1993-1999).

But, hey, I guess he WAS overall successful. Darn me and my expectations that a successful guy be successful MOST of the time.

You're right that Eric wasn't successful most of the time, but he was the most successful booker that WCW ever had. He was the only one to take WCW ahead of the WWF in the ratings. Nash, Sullivan, Russo & Ferrara destroyed WCW.>>>

One can easily argue that Bill Watts was the most successful WCW booker since he lost the least amount of money in his tenure. Eric Bischoff lost obscene amounts of money and his inept management did a lot of damage to WCW.

<<<Although i'd say he was succesful between 95 and 98 because during those years WCW were either ahead of the WWF or close to them in the ratings.>>>

I say 1996 and 1997 because those were, I believe, the only years WCW turned a profit. That, ultimately, determines success in any venture.

<<<About Goldberg

I think WCW made a big mistake in the way they handled him. Bischoff did the right thing by having him squash everyone in the mid card, but he made the mistake when he put Goldberg over the Upper Carders so quickly. His win over Hogan wasn't deserved so quickly, he should have defended the US Title some more and then he should have won the World Title around Starrcade of that year when it would have meant more.>>>

They should have booked the GB v Hogan program to last over several PPV shows. WCW, sadly, left GB with almost no top guys to face (Sting, Luger, Hogan, and Nash were about the only ones, at the time, that fans felt had a shot at beating GB) and Eric, desperate to win ratings for one week, took what was originally a non-title dark match and blew the last big money match WCW has had.

<<<Kevin Nash destroyed Goldberg by ending his winning streak at Starrcade 98 and then dropping the Title to Hogan the next week on Nitro. Goldberg's pops started dropping after they changed his music, then started to play second fiddle to (red & yellow) Hulk Hogan.>>>

That, ultimately, is the problem with the monster push. It limits character development because the character really can't show weakness. Thus, the moment he loses, his mystique is shattered and his ability to draw is hampered big-time. Kane has managed to do the best job of anybody of overcoming the initial "untouchable monster" push---but even he is a very limited character.

<<<Vince Russo then decided to turn Goldberg heel (Bischoff had no power then) which was a big mistake because a) no-one wanted to boo him, b) It was billed as "the biggest suprise of all time" and was a real let down and c) Goldberg didn't want to be a heel.>>>

Over-billing it was a huge problem, but let's not forget that by all accounts, GB was shooting down every idea tossed at him by the bookers. About the only thing Russo could come up with was for GB to turn heel. Bill should have TRIED to make it work, but he refused from the get-go, which leads to the problem mentioned in the next sentence...

<<<Then he turned face with no explanation and Russo put him in the stupidest angle of all time asking him to do the winning streak again starting from the bottom. Bischoff came back and tried to get him out of the angle jobbing him to "Totally Buff" and he was going to be brought back when Fusiant brought the company.>>>

I agree---but the only angle that GB was ever involved in that drew money WAS the initial streak. I'm not sure anybody can make his character work as anything but an unbeatabe monster.

<<<I think that if he was booked better after 98 then he would have been the next Hulk Hogan, the way it is now Goldberg is going to end up the next Ultimate Warrior unless he takes a buy out from the WWF or if Ted Turner starts up a new Wrestling Promotion which i'm guessing Goldberg will be eligable to Wrestle for. He is still a big name and the WWF will definatly want to sign him when his contract runs out, if only to stop him from signing for the WWA or the XWF.>>>

When his contract runs out, he'll be old (mid 30's), out of the ring for several years, not in the public eye for most of those years, and still not a good worker. I don't really see a benefit in signing him.

-=Mike

March 30, 2002

Did any of you guys take debating classes?

April 2, 2002

You can't argue really well, but you can nag like a bitch.

It seems now as if you don't know the true meaning of "draw" - your A.D.D. ass is just glued to the idea that "drawing" makes companies WIN wars and SQUASH the enemy - all th while ERic Bischoff is draining the fed' s money on useless aquisitions.

You're stuck on that brainwashing Hogan rubbish where he would tell bookers that guys like Kidman wouldn't draw flies at a shit convention.

However, if you were truly a gifted writer (or someone who wouldn't bitch all of the time and actually understood from arguements in order to learn from them) then you would know that a "draw" means tickets had gotten sold by this "draw."

For ex. Sales from the Indies show "Jerry Lynn" and "Eddie Guerrero" as the main event had a gate of about 300 fans that it had "drew." Small numbers, but they 'drew' fans to see a show regardless.

And also 911 was never pushed to the top of the card or even as a contender like Rob Van Dam, 911 was never selling merch like Goldberg and RVD, and was never pushed as their respective co.'s star like the previous two. Your idea that RVD didn't have fans come to see him now makes no sense since your arguement will had aligned him with 911.

Ratings fell?

I said that at the get go.

You said that too - well no shit.

Why did they fall?

Well look at this unquoted and really unaddressed post

You are doing poorly at destroying a mystique which some already understand in terms of profit, budget, writing and PRODUCTION VALUES

And that can only make sense if you buy some more riddalin and pay close attention (more one liners if you're not following) here

You don't realize it, yet a 'draw' never meant; lead a resurgance against the wwf. It doesn't mean IMPROVE the entire company. Flair tried but his nWa still sank.

"drawing" means making people (large n' small marks) come to a show - PERIOD.

"Draw" for Goldberg means that at one time he was creating a buzz at wcw by making fans come and see him, and that he also was a great merchandise seller.

Meaning him AND Bob Holly (now right here you tried to pull a fast one buddy, too bad it's just terribly written) were "draws" for fans to spend their mark money on. This is on the basis of mean 'selling merch for money.' It doesn't pertain to more than their image because -

It's not really based in who he's fighting, but what and if the marks are buying what they were; that is the bottom line ( I.E. Holly merchandise doesn't fill his oppoenent SNow's pocket with merch revenue. It just reflects what Bob Holly and the Fed has "drawn" with their Holly clothing. Thus, it's A success at "drawing" money for them)

Oh and this kills everything you have ever written/ridden to argue with me since your jackass wrote it

And GB drew in 1998.

So . . . If you "draw" fans in, you're not a "draw" like I had said this entire time?

Attendance was helped by his apperances and wasn't hurt by his absences.

For the last time - a "draw" sells tickets, not vice versa.

Did I say he's the going to make the WWF gain ALL of the lost wcw marks and have them turn back to pro wrestling so they'd watch the Invasion? Naa . . .

I SAID that at one time he was a "drawing" force. You said you wanted proof, and both of us there previously gave it.

Also with the WWWF. Vince USED to know how to use draws. Roll a fucking head now, cus today you'll just never know. That Everybody knows.

Next, when did I say he had an everlasting hold on the wcw and gave them a shock of 20,000 megawatts in pure sales; I said he was a top star since he was placed high on the card (too many times) and drew the best heat out of every show; get it now?

You lost your arguement on too many things like

'where's the 'Berg imitations? '( I said the newly named 'spear', Rhyno's monster 'spear' - not his outlandish push -, and finally Brock all have traces of GB in them)

'You are a GB mark '(that's name calling shithead. I called him a 'horsedrinker' previously. You can't HACK more than a line here and there) and 'THEM CHANTS WERE PIPED IN' (I told you that before and you brought it up afterwards like it's a sorry-assed counter-point)

the 'Holly doesn't draw because you have to at look who he's fighting in order to understand his heat/drawing power' (it's called "putting someone over." If his Merch is then sold to some fans , he has "drawn" money right THEN. GB had good merch sales too. Then in that case as well he "drew")

And the fact that you said 'when did he ever draw?

if he didn't draw then why did you make

"Attendance was helped by his apperances"

lol but what more can I expect from you, somebody who in his mind has been "undressing" Goldberg since 2001

April 2, 2002

This is my last reply to you because you, well, are dull.

<<<You can't argue really well, but you can nag like a bitch.

It seems now as if you don't know the true meaning of "draw" - your A.D.D. ass is just glued to the idea that "drawing" makes companies WIN wars and SQUASH the enemy - all th while ERic Bischoff is draining the fed' s money on useless aquisitions. >>>

Drawing means drawing fans to the arena. Not that hard.

<<<You're stuck on that brainwashing Hogan rubbish where he would tell bookers that guys like Kidman wouldn't draw flies at a shit convention. >>>

Wow, that came out of left field.

<<<However, if you were truly a gifted writer (or someone who wouldn't bitch all of the time and actually understood from arguements in order to learn from them) then you would know that a "draw" means tickets had gotten sold by this "draw.">>>

And, like I said, if the WWF could get GB dirt-cheap, I'd sign him. It's a risk, but one worth taking.

I'd NEVER touch him with his current deal and since the WWF won't give him the unstoppable monster push, he won't likely draw.

<<<For ex. Sales from the Indies show "Jerry Lynn" and "Eddie Guerrero" as the main event had a gate of about 300 fans that it had "drew." Small numbers, but they 'drew' fans to see a show regardless.>>>

BUT, how do you know the fans came to see them? Maybe they came to see somebody else.

It was you that brought up the whole "Who did the fans come for?" line of thinking.

<<<And also 911 was never pushed to the top of the card or even as a contender like Rob Van Dam, 911 was never selling merch like Goldberg and RVD, and was never pushed as their respective co.'s star like the previous two.>>>

Ah, the point sailed over your head yet again, eh? You equate pops with drawing. You have from the get-go. I just mentioned that 911 got massive pops, but that he never once drew a fan.

<<<Your idea that RVD didn't have fans come to see him now makes no sense since your arguement will had aligned him with 911. >>>

Well, you have so invented an argument not made that replying to it is not even worth the effort.

<<<Ratings fell?

I said that at the get go.

You said that too - well no shit.>>>

More profanity? Are you incapable of making a point without obscenity?

<<<Why did they fall?

Well look at this unquoted and really unaddressed post

Quote

You are doing poorly at destroying a mystique which some already understand in terms of profit, budget, writing and PRODUCTION VALUES

And that can only make sense if you buy some more riddalin and pay close attention (more one liners if you're not following) here

Quote

You don't realize it, yet a 'draw' never meant; lead a resurgance against the wwf. It doesn't mean IMPROVE the entire company. Flair tried but his nWa still sank.

"drawing" means making people (large n' small marks) come to a show - PERIOD.

"Draw" for Goldberg means that at one time he was creating a buzz at wcw by making fans come and see him, and that he also was a great merchandise seller.>>>

And I said that he drew once.

Then, 1999 came around and he stopped.

And, I might add, your reply didn't explain your initial question--why did ratings fall?

<<<Meaning him AND Bob Holly (now right here you tried to pull a fast one buddy, too bad it's just terribly written) were "draws" for fans to spend their mark money on. This is on the basis of mean 'selling merch for money.' It doesn't pertain to more than their image because - >>>

Okay, now that you have managed to confuse your point beyond all recgnition, are you arguing that every single wrestler is a draw now?

<<<It's not really based in who he's fighting, but what and if the marks are buying what they were; that is the bottom line ( I.E. Holly merchandise doesn't fill his oppoenent SNow's pocket with merch revenue. It just reflects what Bob Holly and the Fed has "drawn" with their Holly clothing. Thus, it's A success at "drawing" money for them)

Oh and this kills everything you have ever written/ridden to argue with me since your jackass wrote it>>>

MORE profanity? Yeesh. Amazing, I manage to undress you without profanity. And your point, by the way, is, well, quite horrid.

<<<Quote

And GB drew in 1998.

So . . . If you "draw" fans in, you're not a "draw" like I had said this entire time?>>>

You seem to miss the whole "in 1998" line to explain the draw. A lot of guys have drawn at one point and no longer do so.

Warrior drew once.

He doesn't draw NOW.

Nor does Goldberg.

THUS, they are not draws NOW.

<<<Quote

Attendance was helped by his apperances and wasn't hurt by his absences.

For the last time - a "draw" sells tickets, not vice versa. >>>

Ah, took the one type in the 3 or 4 times I wrote this. What I wrote repeatedly before this was that attendance was NOT helped by his appearances and wasn't hurt by his absences.

However, even with the typo, you seem to have glossed over one thing:

In WCW, Goldberg was the most over guy they had. Theoretically, he was EASILY their top draw and nobody was a close second. If he's NOT there, logically, shouldn't attendance be lower?

<<<Did I say he's the going to make the WWF gain ALL of the lost wcw marks and have them turn back to pro wrestling so they'd watch the Invasion? Naa . . .>>>

Nor did I. I said he didn't draw squat since 1998.

<<>>

I said his drawing power ended in 1998 and while he was hot, he was never asked to draw the fans alone---so is drawing power is unknown.

<<<Also with the WWWF. Vince USED to know how to use draws. Roll a fucking head now, cus today you'll just never know. That Everybody knows.

Next, when did I say he had an everlasting hold on the wcw and gave them a shock of 20,000 megawatts in pure sales; I said he was a top star since he was placed high on the card (too many times) and drew the best heat out of every show; get it now?>>>

BUT---if the attendance at house shows is so bad that they stop running them altogether, then he's not drawing fans.

<<<You lost your arguement on too many things like

'where's the 'Berg imitations? '( I said the newly named 'spear', Rhyno's monster 'spear' - not his outlandish push -, and finally Brock all have traces of GB in them) >>>

Again, other guys have done tackles before GB. So, not a "clone"

And Magnum T.A. had the "quick, dominant squash" push long before Goldberg. Again, not a "clone".

But, hey, keep trying.

<<<'You are a GB mark '(that's name calling shithead. I called him a 'horsedrinker' previously. You can't HACK more than a line here and there) and 'THEM CHANTS WERE PIPED IN' (I told you that before and you brought it up afterwards like it's a sorry-assed counter-point)>>>

Wow, obsessing over lines still?

At least I'm intelligent enough to make an argument without the usage of profanity.

Anybody who uses profanity has a severe lack of intelligence.

<<<the 'Holly doesn't draw because you have to at look who he's fighting in order to understand his heat/drawing power' (it's called "putting someone over." If his Merch is then sold to some fans , he has "drawn" money right THEN. GB had good merch sales too. Then in that case as well he "drew")>>>

So, if Jerry Flynn sold one shirt and fought Goldberg, Goldberg wasn't the top draw for that match? Interesting theory.

Completely inaccurate and borderline idiotic---okay, not really borderline---argument.

<<<And the fact that you said 'when did he ever draw?

if he didn't draw then why did you make

Quote

"Attendance was helped by his apperances"

lol but what more can I expect from you, somebody who in his mind has been "undressing" Goldberg since 2001 >>>

It was called a typo. Way to miss the 3 OR 4 OTHER TIMES I wrote that where I typed it properly.

But, thank God you don't do selective cutting and pasting, huh?

-=Mike

...Who is bored of you now.

April 2, 2002

i just want to say that, due to the extremely long posts that seem to make up some kind of inter-quoting circle jerk, this is the hardest-to-read thread i've ever seen.

April 2, 2002

It's easier if you skip anything over 6 lines or has a lot of quoted lines in it. Most of the long replies are just reiterations of things everyone else has said in some form or another mixed with name-calling and the occasional salient point. Just skim through... it all makes the hurt go away.

(Did I go over 6 lines?)

Hulk hogan

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