Murmuring Beast 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2003 Last night, WWE could have gone to great lengths to make some new stars: they didn't. Apart from La Resistance, the Hurricane wasn't on the show, neither were woman wrestlers Jazz, Trish and Molly. It's really all over for a lot of the guys on the Raw Roster. Rob Van Dam is absolutely fucked. Booker is finished as a competitor even at IC level. Kane is going no-where. Hurricane wasn't on the show at all. Guys who went over: Goldberg, Steiner, Triple H and Flair. For a start, none of the above need wins. They are all veterans and in Flair and Steiner's case should be near retirement. Goldberg more or less killed Jericho despite selling the arm, Steiner beat a young wrestler, Test, Flair and Michaels should be used to put new guys over, not shooting wads all over each other every night. If the belt is going to stay on Triple H a new challenger has to come from somewhere. Who's on Raw that can challenge? Orton is set for a mega-push, but he's on Triple H's side so that rules him out. Hurricane will never be anything in WWE if last night says anything. Rob Van Dam is losing heart and heat. Test and Christian - both heels - are still not good enough. Goldberg has been around the block and so a World Title win will mean very little. Personally, I would switch Jericho to face, in an ideal world, and have him challenge for the belt as he is the only credible challenger remaining. Whilst last night's Hell in the Cell wasn't bad, you have to look at the three guys in the ring. Foley: a retired wrestler acting as referee; Nash: a man who should be retired through age and immobility; Triple H: a man who has proven time and again that he won't give anyone a shot at the gold without making them look like shit. Triple H made Nash look like a pile of crap too last night. It's all over for this brand extension, but the only selling point are these "dream matches" that we are promised every month. I'm very disappointed - I had genuine hope for last night. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2003 I agree with you and something very similiar in my topic, but I dont know if i agree with all of the Hurricane ball licking here. The guy is good, but i don't wanna see him in the main event anytime soon. He'll never be main eventing a PPV. I think guys like Jericho, Booker, Christian, RVD, Lance Storm, HHH should be the main stars of RAW and out of all of those guys only 1 looked strong and credible last night and it was HHH. What asurprise Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Murmuring Beast 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2003 Yea, but Hurricane is over. Talent doesn't mean as much if you are massively over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 16, 2003 Kane is going no-where. Oh well. Life goes on. Steiner beat a young wrestler, Test Test is also one of the most worthless guys they have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nikowwf Report post Posted June 16, 2003 There is no way Goldberg should have lost to Jericho last night. I don't even like him, but him losing would have absolutely killed him. The whole purpose of the match was him going over. niko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Retro Rob Report post Posted June 16, 2003 There is no way Goldberg should have lost to Jericho last night. I don't even like him, but him losing would have absolutely killed him. The whole purpose of the match was him going over. niko I thought it was to get Goldberg over as a face so he could take on HHH at SummerSlam. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 16, 2003 There is no way Goldberg should have lost to Jericho last night. I don't even like him, but him losing would have absolutely killed him. The whole purpose of the match was him going over. niko Him being unable to get the crowd to stop chanting for the other guy is his problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nikowwf Report post Posted June 16, 2003 Crowd was a TINY bit pissy at that point from all the crap. That reaction wasn't that bad. You can't go by the crowd reaction always....if that's the case take the title off Brock, and put it on that Mr. America dude. Oh, and show Stephanie more, cause she gets megapops. niko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 16, 2003 Crowd was a TINY bit pissy at that point from all the crap. That reaction wasn't that bad. You can't go by the crowd reaction always....if that's the case take the title off Brock, and put it on that Mr. America dude. Oh, and show Stephanie more, cause she gets megapops. niko But, if the crowd turns on him, and he gets LOUSY buyrates, why do we want him pushed? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest THE MIGHTY THOR Report post Posted June 16, 2003 What the crowd want is for Goldberg to get the fuck out b/c he sucks and for RVD to get a meaningful push instead of Kane who no one cares about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisMWaters 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2003 You know what I find funny nowadays... Back in the 80s and to some extent the 90s, when the crowd was mega-cheering a wrestler, or was giving a heel heat for being a heel and not because he's boring, that guy would get a push. Savage for example, old school HHH, Ultimate Warrior (sorry, but he did get good reactions), Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, Steve Austin, The Rock when he started to be charismatic...Honky Tonk Man (even though I heard he was suppossed to be a face at first) Nowadays though...it's like Vince has a hearing problem or something, as he ignores those facts... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nikowwf Report post Posted June 16, 2003 Goldberg being in one PPV which was pushed horribly that got a bad buyrate is not enough of a sample to say he gets bad buyrates. WWE uses the same logic you guys use to hate on Goldberg to keep everyone else from getting pushed. niko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted June 16, 2003 Whatever happened to the Stevie Richards & Victoria angle? Will Goldust ever get revenge on Ortan? Are just 2 angles that could of been the opening match for the PPV but will never see the light of day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted June 16, 2003 Crowd was a TINY bit pissy at that point from all the crap. That reaction wasn't that bad. Dude, there were Jericho signs and "Goldberg Go Home" signs on TV. There were Y2J chants (and not the quiet, hard-to-hear kind like at WMXIX) and Goldberg Sucks chants. They had to turn on the Piped Crowd to turn the tides. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Polish_Rifle Report post Posted June 16, 2003 Did JR acknowledge the Y2J chants or did he say he was sucking up to the crowd again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted June 16, 2003 He was orgasming over the attempted psychology (namely, Goldberg selling the arm and Jericho working it) to note the crowd. PS: He got the spear anyway. Where are all the people who hated Edge for getting the spear after Eddy worked on his arm forever at Summerslam? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2003 I believe Goldberg has been a failure so far...........but, its not fair to throw the buy-rate argument in there. NOONE is bringing in buyrates in WWE right now. What happened at WRESTLEMANIA XIX when Kurt Angle and Lesnar main evented. I'd like to know a certain SOMEONES excuse for Angle not getting a monster buyrate Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Retro Rob Report post Posted June 16, 2003 He was orgasming over the attempted psychology (namely, Goldberg selling the arm and Jericho working it) to note the crowd. PS: He got the spear anyway. Where are all the people who hated Edge for getting the spear after Eddy worked on his arm forever at Summerslam? He sold his arm after hitting the spear for the first time IIRC. As for the second, maybe it was "gut check time". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYU 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2003 Angle/Brock was not the hyped Main Event. For sure, the Hogan/Vince feud got the most attention and was hyped. On the Raw side, it would be Triple H/Booker T. You can't look at the Angle/Brock match for the low buyrates because it was never made to look like the actual main event. Hell, until WrestleMania morning, Hogan/Vince was still scheduled as the final match. With your logic, you can say "HBK/Jericho didn't bring in buyrates and was a failure. So was HHH/Booker. So was Rock/Austin. So was Rey Misterio/Matt Hardy, etc." With a match that was as heavily hyped as the REAL Main Event in Rock/Goldberg, it was a complete failure. Angle/Lesnar didn't receive nearly the same attention and main event billing that match did. ....wait, you weren't talking about getting my excuse, were you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Murmuring Beast 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2003 Yea, there are so many "main-events" on one PPV. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2003 Angle/Brock was not the hyped Main Event. For sure, the Hogan/Vince feud got the most attention and was hyped. On the Raw side, it would be Triple H/Booker T. You can't look at the Angle/Brock match for the low buyrates because it was never made to look like the actual main event. Hell, until WrestleMania morning, Hogan/Vince was still scheduled as the final match. With your logic, you can say "HBK/Jericho didn't bring in buyrates and was a failure. So was HHH/Booker. So was Rock/Austin. So was Rey Misterio/Matt Hardy, etc." With a match that was as heavily hyped as the REAL Main Event in Rock/Goldberg, it was a complete failure. Angle/Lesnar didn't receive nearly the same attention and main event billing that match did. ....wait, you weren't talking about getting my excuse, were you? There's excuse number 1 right there........and you just proved my point my man........Like i said nobody in WWE draws buyrates right now so why shit on Goldberg for not getting more buys in his ppv matches........If you shit on Goldberg for that then you have to shit on Lesnar, Angle, Austin, Rock, HHH, Booker T, Jericho, HBK. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted June 16, 2003 If you shit on Goldberg for that then you have to shit on Lesnar, Angle, Austin, Rock, HHH, Booker T, Jericho, HBK. Are these guys getting negative, "get off my TV" reactions? ...And I'm not just talking about on this board, before anyone starts on HHH. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYU 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2003 Angle/Brock was not the hyped Main Event. For sure, the Hogan/Vince feud got the most attention and was hyped. On the Raw side, it would be Triple H/Booker T. You can't look at the Angle/Brock match for the low buyrates because it was never made to look like the actual main event. Hell, until WrestleMania morning, Hogan/Vince was still scheduled as the final match. With your logic, you can say "HBK/Jericho didn't bring in buyrates and was a failure. So was HHH/Booker. So was Rock/Austin. So was Rey Misterio/Matt Hardy, etc." With a match that was as heavily hyped as the REAL Main Event in Rock/Goldberg, it was a complete failure. Angle/Lesnar didn't receive nearly the same attention and main event billing that match did. ....wait, you weren't talking about getting my excuse, were you? There's excuse number 1 right there........and you just proved my point my man........Like i said nobody in WWE draws buyrates right now so why shit on Goldberg for not getting more buys in his ppv matches........If you shit on Goldberg for that then you have to shit on Lesnar, Angle, Austin, Rock, HHH, Booker T, Jericho, HBK. You can't shit on the other guys, because they weren't brought in for the same reason Goldberg was. Goldberg was brought in for the SOLE purpose of getting good buyrates and ratings. He sure as hell isn't a good wrestler and I'm sure even Vince realizes that. He was signed to bring in money, get TV ratings and buyrates boosted, and become tremendously popular. Has he done any of that ? Fuck no. The fans boo him in any match that goes over 5 minutes. Besides a relatively high rating in that cage match with Christian, he's done jackshit for the ratings. And the buyrates, embarrassing for what he was intended to do. He can sit there and bitch about being considered "disappointing" but that is exactly what he is. He has done nothing he was signed to do and, at this point, not even the fans are willing to completely back him up and cheer him. Goldberg is worthless. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2003 Yeah, but look who Goldberg has faced....The Rock and Jericho...........HBK got booed against Jericho at WMXIX........and Freakin Rock as the hell got many cheers over Stone Cold at WMXIX as well. The Rock and Jericho are both Insanely over and people will cheer for them no matter who they're wrestling. I dont remember Goldberg getting booed against Christian. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisMWaters 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2003 I dont remember Goldberg getting booed against Christian. You weren't there live. Trust me, there was a good portion of the crowd that was booing Goldberg in that match. Though they weren't exactly backing Christian in it either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2003 Angle/Brock was not the hyped Main Event. For sure, the Hogan/Vince feud got the most attention and was hyped. On the Raw side, it would be Triple H/Booker T. You can't look at the Angle/Brock match for the low buyrates because it was never made to look like the actual main event. Hell, until WrestleMania morning, Hogan/Vince was still scheduled as the final match. With your logic, you can say "HBK/Jericho didn't bring in buyrates and was a failure. So was HHH/Booker. So was Rock/Austin. So was Rey Misterio/Matt Hardy, etc." With a match that was as heavily hyped as the REAL Main Event in Rock/Goldberg, it was a complete failure. Angle/Lesnar didn't receive nearly the same attention and main event billing that match did. ....wait, you weren't talking about getting my excuse, were you? There's excuse number 1 right there........and you just proved my point my man........Like i said nobody in WWE draws buyrates right now so why shit on Goldberg for not getting more buys in his ppv matches........If you shit on Goldberg for that then you have to shit on Lesnar, Angle, Austin, Rock, HHH, Booker T, Jericho, HBK. You can't shit on the other guys, because they weren't brought in for the same reason Goldberg was. Goldberg was brought in for the SOLE purpose of getting good buyrates and ratings. He sure as hell isn't a good wrestler and I'm sure even Vince realizes that. He was signed to bring in money, get TV ratings and buyrates boosted, and become tremendously popular. Has he done any of that ? Fuck no. The fans boo him in any match that goes over 5 minutes. Besides a relatively high rating in that cage match with Christian, he's done jackshit for the ratings. And the buyrates, embarrassing for what he was intended to do. He can sit there and bitch about being considered "disappointing" but that is exactly what he is. He has done nothing he was signed to do and, at this point, not even the fans are willing to completely back him up and cheer him. Goldberg is worthless. It doesnt matter what he was brought in for........the fact of the matter is he has done no worse than Angle, Rock, Austin or anybody else for that matter so you CANT shit on him. Hogan, NWO, Mick Foley, Roddy Piper, Scott Steiner, Steve Austin were ALL brought in for ratings spikes and NONE of them succeeded. The point is that NOTHING will spike the ratings or buyrates, so you can't shit on Goldberg for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest KJ Brackish Report post Posted June 16, 2003 He'll never be main eventing a PPV. Ya know something, I think that this same exact thing was said about Shawn Michaels, and now look where he is. 4 or 5 time WWE Champion. Shawn was a scrawny little guy just like the Hurricane and now he's da showstoppa. I personally feel that Hurricane could steal the show and become the WWE Champion soon. IMO, that would bring alot more credibility over the title by letting a upper midcarder to win the title. It would be a good push IMO. DFA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Insane Bump Machine Report post Posted June 16, 2003 There's excuse number 1 right there........and you just proved my point my man........Like i said nobody in WWE draws buyrates right now so why shit on Goldberg for not getting more buys in his ppv matches........If you shit on Goldberg for that then you have to shit on Lesnar, Angle, Austin, Rock, HHH, Booker T, Jericho, HBK. Most of the guys you mentioned weren't hired to bump the buyrates and ratings and aren't positioned as big draws. Except for HHH, and he gets shit on quite a bit, wouldn't you say? Austin and Rock aren't actually active wrestlers. Lesnar, Angle, Jericho, Booker etc. aren't positioned to draw big buyrates. The guys who were positioned as big draws over the last few months were McMahon, Hogan, HHH, Goldberg, Rock, Nash and Steiner. Those guys and the creative team are to blame for the disappointing buyrates, and we shit on them all the time. That's only fair. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYU 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2003 Yeah, but look who Goldberg has faced....The Rock and Jericho...........HBK got booed against Jericho at WMXIX........and Freakin Rock as the hell got many cheers over Stone Cold at WMXIX as well. The Rock and Jericho are both Insanely over and people will cheer for them no matter who they're wrestling. I dont remember Goldberg getting booed against Christian. Yes, the Rock is popular. But Goldberg was supposed to be this HUGE WCW superstar. Everyone wants to see him back. He is making his debut match in WWE. First one the fans have seen in 2 or 3 years. And what happens ? They not only boo Goldberg and cheer Rock. They chant "Goldberg sucks !" This was a guy that was supposed to get WWE media attention, and he's being booed in his first match back ! As for the Jericho situation, don't give me that. He's been getting solid boos for months. He did get cheered at WrestleMania, but the difference was, the fans didn't boo when Michaels won. They still cheered for him, but some did want to see Jericho win. However, last night, the fans booed when Goldberg won. Jericho has been getting booed against everybody lately. He goes against Goldberg and he gets cheered. What does this say about Goldberg ? I think someone's trying to be a Goldberg apologist right now. He's designed to get huge fan support and he should be getting that all the time, especially considering these have been heels he's been going against. But he hasn't been, and the fans are starting to backlash against him. I'll say it again. Goldberg is worthless to WWE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 16, 2003 It doesnt matter what he was brought in for........the fact of the matter is he has done no worse than Angle, Rock, Austin or anybody else for that matter so you CANT shit on him Oh, But he has. Backlash, his big debut PPV, built totally around him, got a lower buyrate than anything else this year did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
