Guest Jack Potts Report post Posted June 17, 2003 I've grown as disgusted as many of you over the direction, or lack thereof, of the WWE. Terrible angles, lame gimmicks, major pushes for wrestlers that McMahon derided for being "old" when they left his company for greener pastures in WCW, and throwing money at big name wrestlers for short-term gains has created a growing sense of frustration for wrestlers and fans alike.... However, the recent influx of new talent leads me to believe that Vince may finally be realizing that he has to rebuild instead of looking toward the past to spark interest in his product. Granted, they may not be indy legends or the most experienced wrestlers, but they are new faces, and that is definitely a good start. The WWE even seems to be investing engergy in creating characters and a reason to care about, or hate them. Compare the recent debuts/redebuts of Sean O'Haire, La Resistance, Brian Kendrick, and, Heaven help us, Nathan Jones to the initial appearances of John Cena and Randy Orton. The former were given elaborate, fascinating video packages or backstage vignettes that generated a buzz about the wrestlers. The latter just walked out with no fanfare, or gimmick. Even the endless Mr. America/McMahon feud appears to be giving a backdoor push to O'Haire and Zack Gowen. The results of these experiments have been uneven, to say the least, but the WWE seems to be trying. Raw wasn't the greatest show in the world last night, and I disagreed with some of the segments, particularly the on-air burial of Lance Storm, but if it leads to a storyline for Storm, and a new direction (or more aptly, a direction) for his character, then I support it. The Kane angle, even seems to indicate some mid-long range planning in the Stone Cold-motivational-speaker gimmick, because it is narrative door that can lead to the reinvigoration of existing talent. For the first time in a long time, I cared about Kane, and I actually look forward to next week's Raw main event. Even the most diehard HHHater have to admit some degree of uncertainty about how this storyline will play out. Last night, the WWE also gave considerable mic time and face time to Randy Orton and Maven. They got a rub from having established stars involved, but the match came down to Orton and Maven. The reintroduction of secondary belts also seems to be their way of acknowledging that there's a bottleneck at the top of the card on both shows, with few legitimate challengers for the top belts. They need those titles to lend credibility to lower and mid-card talent. For a time, the WWE was literally, and figuratively, banking their future on the likes of Goldberg, Steiner, Nash, and Hogan. All these wrestlers were big name acquisitions that have generated little fan enthusiasm. With no options left, the WWE is finally giving new faces a chance to shine. So before we get too negative about how "green" someone is or why are they giving such a push to the Hurricane, let's be happy for a moment that they are giving some momentum to a new generation instead of pushing the same old, same old. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ManKinnd Report post Posted June 17, 2003 Agreed. Only new exciting faces could get the WWE out of the slump it's in now. If they truly have seen this and accepted it, then the product can get better and most likely will. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Repo Man jr Report post Posted June 17, 2003 I'm hoping Lance's new direction doesn't end like D'lo's new direction... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest notJames Report post Posted June 17, 2003 The question is… are Vince and Co. patient enough to let things evolve naturally with the new breed, or will they panic when ratings don't go up right away and revert to over-pushing the old guard? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0 Report post Posted June 17, 2003 The only reason new faces are coming into WWE is that Vince needs more wrestlers. The upper-card is the same as ever: the only new wrestlers there are former WCW upeer-carders Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Polish_Rifle Report post Posted June 17, 2003 good point. Let's hope they continue to mesh the new faces with the old ones and eventually weed out all the old crap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jack Potts Report post Posted June 17, 2003 Right now, I think they're in the "throw-everything-out-there-and-see-what-sticks" phase. Both the old and new will be weeded out, soon enough. I think Vince might still be astute enough to realize that he can't fall back on the tried and true, anymore. Stone Cold maybe has one more good match left in him. Foley and The Rock are just "special attraction" talent, at this point. Although the Undertaker is not a smark darling, I have to admit that the guy gives his all, and sometimes throws out something new. Unfortunately, his body can't take too much more. Vince is smart enough to keep Hogan out of the ring to maintain his mystique, but how long can that last? Maybe not by choice, but definitely out of necessity, I think McMahon is committed to long-term rebuilding. I think he's throwing all the young wrestlers into the water to see who floats and who sinks. Re: Repo Man, Jr's comment. I think as long as they don't decide to repackage Rodney Mack as a terse, no nonsense, Canadian wrestler, Lance Storm's position is safe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 17, 2003 I'm sorry, are we talking about Vince "Redneck Triathlon" McMahon changing? Bad Blood was just... 2 days ago? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Trivia247 Report post Posted June 17, 2003 anyone get that vibe during the Storm match that it reflexed the Dlo vs Shawn Stasiak when both were under the eye of a General Manager... Both Stasiak and Dlo was later releashed... what will happen to Lance Storm? they are now Purposely putting a devaluing thought in the minds of arena fans making them maybe feel like they aren't gonna miss him when he's gone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 17, 2003 The WWE even seems to be investing engergy in creating characters and a reason to care about, or hate them. Compare the recent debuts/redebuts of Sean O'Haire, La Resistance, Brian Kendrick, and, Heaven help us, Nathan Jones Kendrick is the only good one there, so no, I won't be positive. Raw wasn't the greatest show in the world last night, and I disagreed with some of the segments, particularly the on-air burial of Lance Storm, but if it leads to a storyline for Storm, and a new direction (or more aptly, a direction) for his character, then I support it. Like Crybaby Christian! No, I won't be positive about that. The Kane angle, even seems to indicate some mid-long range planning in the Stone Cold-motivational-speaker gimmick, because it is narrative door that can lead to the reinvigoration of existing talent. For the first time in a long time, I cared about Kane, and I actually look forward to next week's Raw main event. Even the most diehard HHHater have to admit some degree of uncertainty about how this storyline will play out. No Kane push can be good, so no, I won't be positive. Last night, the WWE also gave considerable mic time and face time to Randy Orton and Maven. They got a rub from having established stars involved, but the match came down to Orton and Maven. No. When I ask for "new stars" I ask for good new stars. I get Randy Orton. So no, I won't be positive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Cucaracha 0 Report post Posted June 17, 2003 Last night, the WWE also gave considerable mic time and face time to Randy Orton and Maven. They got a rub from having established stars involved, but the match came down to Orton and Maven. No. When I ask for "new stars" I ask for good new stars. I get Randy Orton. So no, I won't be positive. Ok then AS, who can they pheasably bring in? Good young rookies who are not under contracts elsewhere. Name me some...there aren't many, if any. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 17, 2003 Last night, the WWE also gave considerable mic time and face time to Randy Orton and Maven. They got a rub from having established stars involved, but the match came down to Orton and Maven. No. When I ask for "new stars" I ask for good new stars. I get Randy Orton. So no, I won't be positive. Ok then AS, who can they pheasably bring in? Good young rookies who are not under contracts elsewhere. Name me some...there aren't many, if any. You have about FIFTEEN people on SD! who aren't the suckbag that Orton is, that are doing NOTHING. New star doesn't have to mean new to the company. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Retro Rob Report post Posted June 17, 2003 When I ask for "new stars" I ask for good new stars. I get Randy Orton. So no, I won't be positive. Generally new stars are very green when they are brought in. Look at the Rock. He sucked bigtime in 1996-1997, but as time went on he became a decent wrestler and fantastic at working the crowd. Randy Orton has the same amount, if not more talent than the Rock did when he first debuted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 17, 2003 When I ask for "new stars" I ask for good new stars. I get Randy Orton. So no, I won't be positive. Generally new stars are very green when they are brought in. Look at the Rock. He sucked bigtime in 1996-1997, but as time went on he became a decent wrestler and fantastic at working the crowd. Randy Orton has the same amount, if not more talent than the Rock did when he first debuted. As shown in great...er, good, well decent Orton matches like....? And I know he's only had two matches. Maybe if he didn't get hurt doing his own finisher, that wouldn't be the case. And everyone brings up the Rock like it's some kind of common thing that happened to him. Rock was the exception to the rule. Everyone acts like he was the norm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Retro Rob Report post Posted June 17, 2003 As shown in great...er, good, well decent Orton matches like....? And I know he's only had two matches. Maybe if he didn't get hurt doing his own finisher, that wouldn't be the case. And everyone brings up the Rock like it's some kind of common thing that happened to him. Rock was the exception to the rule. Everyone acts like he was the norm. Not everyone goes on to become as great as the Rock, but it is the norm to vastly improve as time goes on. You can use just about any wrestler to prove that. Brock Lesnar was hated by everyone at first when it came to in-ring skill. He isn't great in the ring now, but he is good. As for the Orton being better than the Rock, the Rock was getting the "Get off my TV and stop wasting my time" chants. I don't hear Orton getting any of those. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted June 17, 2003 Orton and him have a similar background and promo ability at that point that if he starts working on the ringwork, they could make him into something. But I see alot more in Cena. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted June 17, 2003 The Maven match was pretty much the definition of decent. Nothing was blown, the timing could use a little bit of work and Orton bumped like a madman off the flying bodypress as per usual. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest notJames Report post Posted June 17, 2003 I think the comparison stems from the fact that both Orton and the Rock are 3rd generation wrestlers and were pushed similarly (ultra-babyfaces turned cocky heels after injury time). Other than that, Vince and Co. are gonna have to work triple overtime to convince me that Orton will get anywhere near as successful as the Rock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 17, 2003 As for the Orton being better than the Rock, the Rock was getting the "Get off my TV and stop wasting my time" chants. I don't hear Orton getting any of those. You don't hear Orton get anything Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Retro Rob Report post Posted June 17, 2003 We can't accurately say that yet since the only matches he has had included outside of the ring antics with guys like Flair, HBK and Foley. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jack Potts Report post Posted June 17, 2003 Although Orton has a small sampling of matches to chose from, personally, I think the match he had with Lesnar before Orton jumped to Raw was the best match he's had, and arguably the second best match Lesnar has had. They just clicked that night, with Orton bumping like crazy and Lesnar displaying devastating power moves and agility. Orton is green, but there's raw (no pun intended) talent there. Give him, and some of the other guys, a chance. The point of my initial post was that WWE seems to be moving toward pushing younger, newer wrestlers. Some of those experiments will fail. Some will succeed. Sometimes a guy won't get over no matter what they do, such as Billy Gunn's singles pushes. Sometimes a guy can spin gold out of cow dung, such as John Cena's rapper gimmick. Kane has stayed in the mid-upper mid card for nearly 6 years with an extremely limited gimmick, and not just because he's a hoss. The guy's body language spoke volumes, when he was just a mute monster. Now that he can speak, he's surprisingly good on the mic. Kane's continued to grow and expand the gimmick, despite some horrendous setbacks, like the Katie Vick angle. Personally, I'm glad they're giving him the opportunity to evolve again. (Still no pun intended.) The WWE is giving fans a reason to care about Kane again, possibly to make up for the whole Kate Vick fiasco, and I'm excited to see how it pans out. No matter how green they are, or what crappy gimmicks they might try to saddle them with, I'd rather have a chance to watch a Doug Basham, Garrison/Lance Cade, Shelton Benjamin, or a Charlie Haas compete than sit through Undertaker vs. SCSA for the umpteenth time. They might fall on their face or they might become the next Kurt Angle. What matters the most is that they had the chance. What is important is the WWE is finally addressing the creative stagnation that has disenfranchised many fans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Sakura Report post Posted June 17, 2003 Since Orton, O'Haire and the other farm guys have "potential" why not let them hang out and improve in the mid card and use guys like Eddie and RVD in the main event angles? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest the 1inch punch Report post Posted June 17, 2003 Last night, the WWE also gave considerable mic time and face time to Randy Orton and Maven. They got a rub from having established stars involved, but the match came down to Orton and Maven. No. When I ask for "new stars" I ask for good new stars. I get Randy Orton. So no, I won't be positive. Ok then AS, who can they pheasably bring in? Good young rookies who are not under contracts elsewhere. Name me some...there aren't many, if any. You have about FIFTEEN people on SD! who aren't the suckbag that Orton is, that are doing NOTHING. New star doesn't have to mean new to the company. I dont like the kid, but he's gotta point Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
