Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted June 18, 2003 When you're a teenager now, you tend to feel that anything labelled "Pop-punk" is shit. Why wouldn't you, with the usual suspects providing you with aural pollution. If it's not 'real' punk, as in angry or hardcore or something, it's generally called fake, phony, etc. My question for the older folks on the board(and let's face it, at TSM, being a teenager around the release date of Dookie makes you old), was it along the lines of the shitty pop-punk we're subject to now, or was it made of nicely-written power pop tunes, like Weezer back in their glory days? The singles don't seem too bad, since it doesn't come off as terrible as the new shit out right now, but it does have a catchy pop melody here and there. So yeah, is there some substance behind this, or is it basically Sum 41 ten years ago? Odd thing to bring up out of nowhere I realise, but it's just a question I've been wondering... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Edwin MacPhisto Report post Posted June 18, 2003 It's Sum 41 from 10 years ago, but: a) it was new at the time, and b) the hooks were much better. It wasn't as good as Weezer, and still isn't. I still play the hell out of those first two albums. Yet I've always enjoyed Green Day as far as power pop goes, so thumbs up to them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted June 18, 2003 Fair enough, but do they have any albums worth getting or downloading? This is power-pop right? Any *edit* other bands in the same vein *edit* worth downloading? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted June 18, 2003 Agreed, Pinkerton and The Blue Album are pretty much the pinnacle of Power-pop, and I think their charm comes in the fact that I can never overplay them. Of course, given the amount of praise that power-pop would get for indie fans, I'm always wondering whether some small-time band out of some other small city in Wisconsin might be better. I don't know as much about Indie music as I'd like anyway, no money+no availablity online= no music Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 18, 2003 Green Day from Dookie to Nimrod was just plain good fun that doesn't belong to be stuck into this area with Good Charlotte, New Found Glory and Sum 41. Green Day was just a fun infectious innoffensive Poppy Rock band that got tagged with "PUNK" because they weren't like Nirvana/Pearl Jam which was ruling the charts at the release of Dookie and were SLIGHTLY off-kilter so MAINSTREAM decicded "HEY! Let's spit in the face of Sex Pistols and Ramones and call this guys PUNK music" As for Weezer...Never got the love for them...as they are no different from Phish...I am not speaking musically...I am speaking as they get praise for being bland and boring bands... Weezer would be no where if it werent for Spike Jonze creative mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Edwin MacPhisto Report post Posted June 18, 2003 Eh. Indie-pop is a mixed bag. Some of it's catchy and fun, and some of it is needlessly pretentious for generally being a bunch of quirky love songs. I have a copy of The Shins' Oh, Inverted World, and half of it is stupendous while half of it is utterly unremarkable. The biggest "indie" pop group of the last year or so was probably Hot Hot Heat, who aren't bad, but don't really blow me away either with the exception of a few very Ric Ocasek-y tracks. I really don't know if there's much of an indie-pop underground that's even lower than the PitchforkMedia radar, but instincts tell me that, considering how marketable a good, straight-up pop song can be, most of the really solid groups in the genre get at least a little exposure. As far as Green Day goes, the only album of theirs I ever really warmed up to as a whole--and, admittedly, the only one short of Dookie that I've ever heard all the way through--is Warning, which actually came out in 2000. I actually like it quite a bit--it's sometimes shallow but often earnest, the hooks are great, and it's really well-crafted pop rock. I don't know if I'd say you should buy it, but it's definitely worth a download and a cursory listen. It might be catching. The end-all solution, of course, is just to score a copy of the 22-track Cars' Complete Greatest Hits that came out last year. Nobody did it better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted June 18, 2003 Thanks for the info guys, it's appreciated. Of course, if anyone else has something else to add, they are welcome. I never really heard much from the Cars, aside from the big hits, but I guess now it's no secret why the Blue Album was as great as it was. Production IS a big deal kids. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CoreyLazarus416 Report post Posted June 18, 2003 Green Day WAS a punk band, Choken. Hell, they follow the punk formula The Ramones created (a few basic power chords, play fast, sing-along lyrics that are both fun and SOMEWHAT insightful) and that most other punk bands follow. Trust me, there are a lot poppier punk acts even in the underground than Green Day. Doesn't stop 'em from being "punk" (although I actually feel punk died with Sid Vicious, but hey). One thing Green Day has over almost ALL other pop/punk acts is that they were underground for a while before becoming a hit. They worked their way up to the mainstream by touring constantly, and being true to themselves while being true to their fans. Then, they became a hit, and the "holier-than-thou" punks turned their back on them because mallfucks started digging 'em. Know what I'd laugh at? If Toxic Narcotic suddenly released an album that went platinum, got mainstream attention, and all of the people that used to go their shows at community centers and high school gymnasiums and Elks Lodges turned their backs on them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Spaceman Spiff Report post Posted June 18, 2003 "Dookie" is pretty damn good. "Kerplunk" (from 1991) is pretty good, too (with a laugh-out-loud funny "My Adventure with Green Day" story in the CD insert), as is "1039/Smoothed Out Slappy Hours" (from 1990, basically a collection of their early EP's). Not real keen on any of their post-"Dookie" stuff, but the 2 pre-"Dookie" albums are fun for the most part. If you can find them for a decent price, pick them up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted June 18, 2003 one thing that bugs me about this whole "punk" thing. You get these indie kids that bitch up and down with the "You're not fuckin punk!"...but in most cases it's to bands who never said they were punk but were labled in such a way by people won don't know any better. I didn't like "1,039..." or "Insomniac" too much, but the rest of their stuff is alright with me. Punk is dead, why can't we just throw everything togather and call it "ROCK." Everything's gotta have a sub catagory now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 18, 2003 No because there is an clear difference between CREED and Shadows Fall but you call them both ROCK...then you get mass confusion... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest La Parka Es Mi Papa Report post Posted June 18, 2003 With the exception of Warning, which is, as mentioned before, a smartly-crafted pop album, I never dug Green Day much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nanks Report post Posted June 18, 2003 It's fine to argue that Green Day aren't "punk" coz they're not The Sex Pistols. But is it fair to label them pop and lump them in with Britney and Christina just because they're popular?? I'm a big Green Day fan. They have a great sound for a 3 person band and Dookie and Warning are good albums each in their own repsects. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 18, 2003 Ummm...Pop isnt limited to Female Blondes with implants ya know... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nanks Report post Posted June 18, 2003 Be that as it may, surely it's less of an insult to whoever it is you deem to be "true punk" to be compared to Green Day than it is to them being lumped into the "too many people like it for it to be cool" category of pop Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest saturnmark4life Report post Posted June 18, 2003 I dunno really, I consider them to be responsible for all the shit we get now, but I don't HATE them. I just can't listen to them anymore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest notJames Report post Posted June 18, 2003 I think it's just a natural evolution of your typical indie-to-mainstream success story. They started out in the Gilman Street punk scene, gained a massive underground following (of which I was a part), got signed to a major label, and fell victim to the inevitable backlash. While their songs may vary from frenetic to subdues, they haven't really changed their sound or their punk attitude at all. The fact that they're all practically married with kids and still tour and make music while still holding on to what made them a good solid band is a testament to their staying power, no matter what genre or category the corporate music machine wants to put them in. Having said that, I'd listen to a thousand hours of old and new Green Day before I'd put up with one minute of happy-core clones like Sum 41 or Blink 182. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nanks Report post Posted June 18, 2003 In recent Green Day news, drummer Tre Cool recently had a piece of floating bone in his leg removed and is giving it away to a fan in a haiku competition at the band's website at www.greenday.com That's pretty cool. Very odd. But pretty cool. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest notJames Report post Posted June 18, 2003 Tre is definitely one for the books. He said in their Behind the Music special that one night while crashing at someone's house, he milked their dog so he could put something in his coffee. Not exactly G.G. Allin, but up there for sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kinetic Report post Posted June 18, 2003 As far as power-pop is concerned, I've recently become really enamored of the first two Big Star records. Not quite as straightforward as Weezer, but equally accessible. If you can get past the fact that the theme song to "That 70s Show" is on #1 Record, I think you'll find it a pleasurable listening experience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted June 18, 2003 Milking a dog is pretty punk though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nl5xsk1 Report post Posted June 18, 2003 While I don't think that Green Day are that much of a punk act, I certainly wouldn't put them in the same genre as Good Charlotte or Sum-41 or Blink-182. However, I think that Green Day are closer to Good Charlotte than they are to acts like GBH or the Exploited or Crass. So, if the spectrum is a scale of 1-10, and Good Charlotte are a 1 and Crass is a 10, then I'd put Green Day as about a 4, maybe a 5. (for comparison, I'd put Rancid as about a 5 or a 6) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mecha Mummy 0 Report post Posted June 18, 2003 I like Green Day, they're certainly better than bands like Good Charlotte and Sum 41... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest notJames Report post Posted June 18, 2003 (edited) If you're talking about just the sound, then you have to remember that bands like Good Charlotte and Sum-41 took their cue from Green Day, who were playing California happy-core before it went mainstream. So I'd rate them even with Rancid, who are only different because they took a more ska-core approach, especially when Tim and Co. were doing Op Ivy. If your talking about punk mentality, Green Day were DIY for a lot longer than most of these MTV-friendly mall-punk bands. If you want to "define" punk as going against the norm, subverting trends, etc., these new bands would register negative numbers because they are the norm. What irks me the most about all these new bands is that they think putting on the punk uniform of mohawks and studded bracelets makes them part of the "movement" while playing harmless power-pop. I wish once and for all punk could be declared dead so we can move past all this. I mean, it grew out of political unrest, poverty, and a sincere disdain for corporate-run music. Is any of the present in today's PUNK RAWK? Because I'm not feeling it. If anything, I'd rate a band like Bonfire Madigan to be the ultimate in punk, because they use a cello, upright base and violin and still put out raw, passionate, dischordant rock the likes of which would make Blink-182 shit their shorts. Too bad they'll never get a record deal. Or maybe, good for them. Edited June 18, 2003 by notJames Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest kkktookmybabyaway Report post Posted June 18, 2003 While some of my hard-core punk friends back in the mid-1990s despised groups like 'Day, I had no problem with them. However, I wouldn't put them in the same class as the Ramones... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nl5xsk1 Report post Posted June 18, 2003 I was at my punk peak when Green Day made it big, and while I didn't like them at all, it wasn't because they were popular. I just didn't get into the faux-accent and their take on pop-punk. To not like a band just because they're on a major label or just because the jocks like them isn't punk rock ... it's just stupid. And I agree that to put them in the Ramones category is pretty close minded, but I do have to admit that I think the Ramones are kind of overrated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted June 18, 2003 but I do have to admit that I think the Ramones are kind of overrated. I'm glad someone else sees this. I like them and all, but they're not as great as everyone says. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 18, 2003 The Ramones are the AC/DC of Punk... If that makes sense...They never were GREAT but they always were fun and kicked ass and survived through a bunch of shit... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted June 18, 2003 Am I the only one who thinks the drummer from AC/DC tends to play the exact same fucking beat on every song? It seems that way.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest La Parka Es Mi Papa Report post Posted June 19, 2003 He does, and I consider AC/DC to be one of the most overrated bands ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
