OFFICIAL~! Release Date For FFX-2

[Guest AndrewTS]

Sakura, I'm not going to quote your entire post because I can basically repond to it like this:

 

I disagree with everything you had to say there. And it shows why many of those who liked the older FFs hate the new ones.

 

"I like FF VIII. I think it's the second best in the series.

 

"I am glad Square moved towards FMV and 'interactive movie' stuff. It rules. It makes the games more of an experience. That is exactly what I want in a RPG."

 

 

And your comments on the sappy romance show how different female players can be from male players.

 

Of course, my opinion may be a minority as well, since I feel the poorly-written, pretentious pile of cliches, bad sci-fi, and large-boobed porcelain dolls called Xenosaga sucks absolute ass and wish it's creators would be abandoned on a desert island somewhere.

Edited June 23, 2003 by AndrewTS

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

I love the Squall/Rinoa stuff in FF VIII. "Eyes on Me" is awesome and the ending makes me all emotional.

AUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH

 

I guess it kind of makes sense, since you're female and all that, but romance has always been a secondary point in FFs to saving the world, and the love story was just so cliched and mushy for an RPG... Also, Squall being a complete utter moron who deserved to be hung from the highest tree for having one of those absolutely dead depressed personalities for no reason is so GYAAHAHHHHH RAGE DEATH MURDER

 

 

Dear Square,

Plz bring back the knights and tough guys and put the overly feminine men back in whatever closet they came out of

KThxGoal

JotW

[Guest AndrewTS]

Dear Square,

Plz bring back the knights and tough guys and put the overly feminine men back in whatever closet they came out of

KThxGoal

JotW

 

Dear JotW and the other people who used to play our games,

 

Fuck you, the gals love bishonens, so bishonens they shall have.

 

Square

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

"I am glad Square moved towards FMV and 'interactive movie' stuff. It rules. It makes the games more of an experience. That is exactly what I want in a RPG."

 

 

I know. It sounds like somebody hasn't played Xenosaga or MGS2.

[Yuna_Firerose 0]

Dear Square,

Plz bring back the knights and tough guys and put the overly feminine men back in whatever closet they came out of

KThxGoal

JotW

 

Dear JotW and the other people who used to play our games,

 

Fuck you, the gals love bishonens, so bishonens they shall have.

 

Square

At least Seifer was a badass bishonen. Okay, maybe the romance was a bit over-melodramatic upon multiple playings, but the first time I played it, I enjoyed it to death. And yes, I admit, I cried when I thought Squall was dead.

 

The black dude in Laguna's party.. am I the only one who thinks he's more feminine than Squall?

[Guest AndrewTS]

"I am glad Square moved towards FMV and 'interactive movie' stuff. It rules. It makes the games more of an experience. That is exactly what I want in a RPG."

 

 

I know. It sounds like somebody hasn't played Xenosaga or MGS2.

I liked MGS2's gameplay, I hated its drawn-out, intrusive, heavy-handed storytelling. That and the whiny bitch named Raiden ruined the game for me.

 

Xenosaga has a margin of like--5-to-1 of cinemas vs. playtime? 'Gears was mediocre but HOLY SH--!!

[Guest Sakura]

The only thing that could surpass that moment in the airship is the "Suteki da Ne" FMV sequence in FFX. Then again, I'm 16-about-to-be-17-in-a-week, so I enjoy those kinds of games.

 

 

I really like the airship part of the ending in FFX. When Yuna and Tidus go to embrace. It's so sad. It reminds me of something Joss Whedon would write.

 

I'm 21 and I still get really into FF games like that.

 

 

And your comments on the sappy romance show how different female players can be from male players.

 

 

Yeah. I'm sure it's no coincidence a lot of girls like FF VIII. The story of Rinoa being so strong willed and refusing to give up on Squall and then thawing him out is really great. Plus Squall is adorable. I love his eyes and his face when he looks sad in FMV scenes. I just want to hug him. Also, though I have seen it a million times, the last shot in the ending of him, when he finally smiles, always makes my day.

 

 

 

 

It's funny that I loooove this stuff and also enjoy brutally slaughting people in Mortal Kombat and various other violent games. Murder simulators are cool!

 

 

It sounds like somebody hasn't played Xenosaga or MGS2.

 

 

I've beaten MGS2 all the way through 12 times and have all dog tags. It was my favorite game of 2001. And yeah, I like Raiden.

 

 

 

When it comes to games I am very much into production values and presentation, and it doesn't bother me to admit it and I don't worry about coming off less than "hardcore". I am totally into great stories, "playing a movie", stuff like that. I would rather play a game that is like an emotional or just really cool experience than something with just gameplay. Though I do love good gameplay, of course. A lot of the games I really love(Metal Gear Solid, Mortal Kombat, Killer Instinct, newer Final Fantasy) people criticize for being all flash.

[Rendclaw 0]

Once again, we see the vast differences between males and females...

 

Considering I played only up to IX and not very far into it, I started losing interest in FF when there was just too much technology in the game. Some I could understand, like the Airship, for ways of getting from place to place, but I started looking at it askance in VII, and I saw my ex-fiancee playing VIII, and I started playing IX, and I had said "enough".

 

There are not very many RPGs that have a good balance between gameplay and story, though I liked Xenogears' story, but the gameplay started wearing on me and I stopped playing about halfway through. The only one that actually held my attention was VII, and that was for the customization of your characters through what Materia you gave them.

 

I've fiddled around with X a bit, and I'm not sure I want to devote what little time I have to it... oh sure it looks great, but I'm not completely taken by how a game looks. My roommates would be ga-ga over it, but I just am a bit skeptical.

 

some like gameplay, others like storylines.. I need a complete package.

[Guest Sakura]

Once again, we see the vast differences between males and females...

I don't know if it's a female/male thing or not.

 

Gender and gaming could be a whole thread or even a paper for psychology.

[Rendclaw 0]

Oh, I agree completely.

 

For a long time gaming had always been gear towards male, with few "neutral" or "girly" games coming out... in its own way Ms. Pac Man changed all that.

 

I do have to agree with the eariler statement that the FF series is going towards catering to teen females than before with their storylines... while that doesn;t bother me as a good story is a good story (romantic involvement or not), sacrificing the game in favor of that is just a little bothersome.

 

Just my take on the topic.

[Guest Sakura]

I have a question for Rend, Jobber and Andrew. You guys aren't like blowing me off like "oh you like this crap? Well, you're a girl, that's why. It doesn't count then" are you?

 

I agree stuff like Squall/Rinoa and the goofy antics of FFX-2 may appeal to girls and I don't doubt my gender could play a role in why I enjoy that stuff, but it's not like it's the only reason. It's not like I am not a "real gamer" who just plays them because I was born female. I like stuff like violent fighting games and I am sure there's tons of guys who like VIII and will like X-2.

 

I hope you guys aren't saying I'm less of a fan or just some girl or whatever because I like FMV and Squall....

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

'Gears was mediocre but HOLY SH--!!

Ah, I forgot, you're the guy who hated the Xeno games and made big long wordy rants about how bad it was.

 

I was going to debate you on that but that thread is so old and doing it here would rip this one apart.

 

I agree stuff like Squall/Rinoa and the goofy antics of FFX-2 may appeal to girls and I don't doubt my gender could play a role in why I enjoy that stuff, but it's not like it's the only reason. It's not like I am not a "real gamer" who just plays them because I was born female. I like stuff like violent fighting games and I am sure there's tons of guys who like VIII and will like X-2.

 

I'm not discounting you as a gamer in any way but I do think you're talking the Crazy Talk when you say you want more discussion and FMV in your games. The dialogue in FF8's love story sequences were so campy and sappy that during the "floating in space back to earth" bit I actually realized that I wasn't watching any kind of real acting here, I was watching one mass of polygons embrace another mass of polygons while a bunch of gooey writing spilled out on the blue text balloons.

 

 

...When you start realizing that, you're BORED. The only reason I kept playing is because, that's right, it's Final Fantasy.

 

Yes, I do like discussion in my games, but it has to be limited. FF7 was the only one of the more fancy "dripping with eye candy" FFs that was good about making sure the talking bits went on just long enough that you weren't bored.

 

MGS2 had one conversation near the end where I just put the controller down and did some housework chores before coming back to find it was nearly done. The plot was so convoluted anyway that I didn't care what was said.

 

I've been playing consoles since 1987 and still remember what happened when the CD medium first appeared as an expensive luxury item with a few gaming systems. If you enjoy FMV so much, get yourself a Sega CD, as there are probably about five dozen games on that system that were nothing but FMV festivals that you occasionally give input to. Think of "Dragon's Lair" but many years after Dragon's Lair had come out to the point where it wasn't any big deal anymore. Sega CD is also the home of much of the bad and stilted acting, both live-action and voiceovers, a trend that still continues somewhat on today's systems. If you thought the lines couldn't sound any more forced these days, well you're wrong.

 

I've also been playing long enough to know what I like, and I like playing games and that's why I still plug them into my systems (although I've been addicted to PC games again more and more lately.) The problem with these games is that they are quickly becoming visual sci-fi novels, or romance novels, or whatever, with the occasional turn-based battle to prod me awake and make sure I'm alive now and then. And even then with today's "anybody can cast almost anything" FF battle systems, fighting is akin to "Push The Button, Get A Cookie."

Edited June 24, 2003 by Jobber of the Week

[Guest AndrewTS]

I have a question for Rend, Jobber and Andrew. You guys aren't like blowing me off like "oh you like this crap? Well, you're a girl, that's why. It doesn't count then" are you?

 

....I hope you guys aren't saying I'm less of a fan or just some girl or whatever because I like FMV and Squall....

Just to clarify, the reason I never bought FFVIII in the first place wasn't because of the story and overly cinematic nature. It was actually the terrible Junction system. Had I the inclination to proceed further, I wouldn't have liked it for those reasons as well.

FFVII, while a good game, left a bad taste in my mouth, and I wasn't eager to get another game like that that was even less of a true game and more of a "interactive sci-fi romance game."

 

I don't think you liking them necessarily is connected with you being a girl. I think being a girl predisposes you to being more likely to enjoy sappy romance, because I don't know too many men who religiously watch soap operas, but I know a hell of a lot of gals who do. I'm sure on the average women would be more likely to enjoy one of the new Final Fantasy games than a Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, or Contra, although you happen to enjoy a wide variety of different games.

 

And RPGs that just throw up melodramatic cinema after cinema and barrage you with sappy cliche romance make me gag, and I don't want to play games like that. However, when you said "interactive movies" I immediately had flashbacks of Sega CD's "push a button every minute or so" crapfests and junk like Sewer Shark and Night Trap: games that are to me undeniablely crap with no redeeming value whatsoever. I've feared gaming moving towards that sort of "experience," and even though FMV games never succeeded, the intent is still there. And we still have self-important jerkoffs who want to live in denial about being a gaming company and wish they were making movies. It's kinda like how Vince wishes he wasn't a wrestling promotor and really was "making movies." Denial like that gives us shitty hybrid products like FMV games and "sports entertainment."

 

I'm a gamer, and I refuse to "interact." I want to play the friggin' game. Which is one reason I've basically abandoned modern-day RPGs, which don't allow you to actually play the game much.

 

And I stand behind my assertion that Xenogears was a massively overrated game that was good but not great. Likewise, I think Saga has decent gameplay but there hardly is any gameplay to be found, dwarfed by the obscenely lengthy cinemas. If you like it, good. However, don't try to tell me it's some genius work of art of a game when it isn't anywhere even close to that.

 

The invoking of Nietzche's ideas doesn't automatically make your game deep and meaningful.

[Guest AndrewTS]

JotW: Heh--funny. You also had horrific flashbacks to the Sega CD, I see. Odd we split on the Xenogames but otherwise we have a lot of the same opinions.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

And I stand behind my assertion that Xenogears was a massively overrated game that was good but not great. Likewise, I think Saga has decent gameplay but there hardly is any gameplay to be found, dwarfed by the obscenely lengthy cinemas. If you like it, good. However, don't try to tell me it's some genius work of art of a game when it isn't anywhere even close to that.

Well for me, 'gears had all these immersive touches which I have been asking for for a LONG time.

 

You had your own base. When you got gears/upgraded existing ones, you could walk around the HUGE ASS HANGAR where they were stored and look at the differences. To me it was always the coolest thing to actually just soak in the anticipation of seeing what a new mech would look like.

 

'Gears story is good, but that's not the "draw" of it for me. It's the pacing, the story, the way the scope slowly gets larger and larger and larger until it almost ends up being a completely different game from what it started as. At the beginning, you're just a guy in a laid back village in the middle of nowhere. The game takes its' time before you leave too - you truly explore it, the woods nearby, Citan's house, etc etc. All of a sudden, things change. You are now immersed in a war between the two dominant powers of the continent. That becomes a huge focus, and they take their time with that narrative too. And then, it becomes clear there's FAR more at work than what you thought. Each subplot/twist/shift in focus gets full attention, never feels rushed, and could stand on its' own as a full game if it had to. And yet you get a good 5-6 of them, which is fucking bad ass. Who is your friend? Who is your enemy?

 

The world doesn't lose that sense of wonder, of "anything can happen", of adventure as you explore ruins and try to peace together what's going... until well into disk 2 Also, I'm a huge mech fan, and all the little extras such as the tons of cool weapons, the way you can fight in the arena for money, the way you can squash wuss enemies on the overland map in your gear - THAT was the kind of stuff that I loved about gears.

 

Finally, the characters were really fleshed out. You got to see Fei's hometown. You got to see Elly's ROOM in her house. So many games don't take the time to show you all the little things that make the characters come alive. This one did.

 

The sheer variety of locations + having your own base + a really cool world map + tons of secrets and sidequests + an interesting story + super immersive touches + giant robots (I'm a sucker for em, what can I say)+ rawking music + an INCREDIBLY cool scope that gets larger and larger and larger = 10/10 in my book.

 

The game is not fast paced, and yet I enjoyed it for it. Just like a fine meal or a good wine, it has to be enjoyed slowly. As much as people hate the slow text speed (not the best choice imo) I can live with it - somehow it fits with the pace. If you like more arcadey, to the point, and action oriented RPGs, there's plenty that cater to that market. I loved what Xenogears tried (and succeeded) to be.

 

The invoking of Nietzche's ideas doesn't automatically make your game deep and meaningful.

 

 

Yeah well, I've got a little something for you on that, too, since you were buddying him up with the Nazis in the last thread. Time to bust out this link. I had that one sitting in my Bookmarks for quite some time for ya.

[Guest AndrewTS]

I said from the very beginning that his ideas were used by Nazism, not equivalent. This is not news to me.

 

However, a lot of the proponents of his ideas were anti-Semites and Nazis. Wagner used Nietz's ideas for his music but he also happened to be an Anti-Semite.

 

Similarly, Karl Marx never considered himself a Marxist. So this is dredging up a moot point and not telling me anything I didn't already know.

 

And like Marxist ideals, it's really quite difficult to take Nietz's ideas seriously at face value since they seem so laughably archaic today. However, Monolith decided to use them to prop up their "game."

 

Also, yeah, those touches were nice, but I'd seen most of them or similar ones already in Suikoden, a game I enjoyed much, much more than Xenogears.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Yet...I found it interesting you'd dig up an article that actually weakens the point you wanted to make.

Point? My point was "Huh, this looks interesting. Hey, this is what AndrewTS was talking about. I guess I'll bookmark it in case that discussion rises from the depth again."

 

I have no point to make, no product to sell, and no spiel to pitch. So spare me.

 

And while I know that different people like different games, I would like to say I'm saddened you ignored my 'Gears rambling to focus on the stuff at the end.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Well, I misunderstood--the way you worded your reply seemed to indicate that by merely associating itself with Nietzsche's ideas that Xenosaga's a deep and meaningful game.

 

However, if you meant it as a side note since I mentioned it, sure.

 

And I did read your mini-review of Xenogears. I disagree with it, but I can see where you're coming from. However, to me "little touches" are a bit moot when the overall game isn't something that grabs and holds my attention.

 

Aw, crap, he left.

 

Hmm...

 

Me = the Anglesault of the Video Game & Toy thread.

[Guest Sakura]

I had a Sega CD. When I say I like cinematic games I don't mean to the extreme of the Digital Pictures "masterpieces".

 

Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil - YES!

 

Sewer Shark, Ground Zero Texas, Prize Fighter - NO!

 

 

I'm glad I am not being blown off as a "casual gamer" or just a girl or whatever. Nothing bugs me more in the internet gaming community than people who are really condesending about being "hardcore". The people that think you have to like such and such or you don't count and you're not a "real fan". Ugh that stuff is obnoxious. Only the constant use of the word "fanboy" comes close to being as annoying.

 

 

BTW, for the record, I don't HATE FF IV and V or any other old school rpgs. I just like the new style more. My favorite old school RPG is Lunar.

 

 

And for what it's worth I also didn't like Xenogears. Well, I don't hate it, it's more like just disinterest. I played it for about 6 hours and just wasn't into it so I stopped.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Gotcha...although it seems your more tolerant of heavy cinematics than I or JotW am (well, except for Xenosaga which he likes). Old joke: Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within has the best graphics of any of the Final Fantasy games and is th most affordable, but in every other area is basically the worst of the series.

 

Funny thing is, I have both Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete and Eternal Blue for Playstation, and love 'em. There were plenty of cinemas, but I didn't mind because they were so well done. Gorgeous animation, awesome music, and I think they were skippable as well. I think the fact that it was well done, extremely expressive animation gives it an inherent advantage over stiff polygon people and horrible B-movie actors.

 

In fact, I kinda wish I didn't trade in my old PS (the original model, first they ever put out) because I was able to watch all the cinemas whenever I wanted with the Game Enhancer.

 

The old-schoolness of Lunar, and the way Working Designs never took itself too seriously but also did a pretty decent job of localization also appealed to me. Although some of the "hardcores" didn't like the translation I think.

However, that's a whole new can of worms.

 

Holy crap, this went off topic.

[Guest Ronixis]

The thing about XenoGears that made it better than FFVII that FFVII was overblown. The Chobocos were the only redeeming grace in VII. Cloud was too Bishie-Sephrorh(sp) was too Bishie et al...

 

Xenogears did not have Bishies all the time, they had the best bad guys in the History of RPG's. Ramses has never been (and cannot be) copied. I already see the Ramses effect with one of the bad guys in Suikoden III- which only hurts the game somewhat- not help it.

 

The thing remains, I dont want the RPG companies to make the OMG TEH RPG OWN JOO to Xenogears, I just need the OMG TEH RPG OWN JOO by its own merits. I dont want people just copying Xenogears to BEAT XenoGears or to get those Anal retentive fans that Mainstreamers love to hate but companies secretly love. I need an RPG that can stand on its own merits that can be just as good or better than XenoGears.

 

On the FF-X "Season 2", If Star Ocean 3 does not come out this year(it looks like it wont) then Dark Cloud 2 is the Best RPG this year (IMHO) I played Zelda, but they messed up the story line of the series-and I am so Anal about keeping Continuiy. I played Suikoden III, Good game, but its been there done that. Have not played Golden SUN 2 yet but I havent even finshed One so that will wait, but that game might give Dark Cloud 2 a run for its money- FFX-2? Forgetaboutit!

 

When you have Rikku look like that stank ho Christina, you know that your companies days are numbered.

 

I see Level 5 as the new Enix (Maybe-because even Enix is getting lazy-asking Level 5 do LEVEL design on Dragon Quest 7 or 8, what do these guys take me for?)

 

See, if the first party boys (Level 5 for Sony and Camlot for Big N) keeps making these types or RPG's, I dont think Square will last too long in the game...

[Guest EricMM]

Ronixis why does character design make for bad games? Does fan service always detract from gameplay?

 

Dark Cloud 2 was really good tho.

[Guest Ronixis]

^

 

No it does not...It hinders it.

 

Now when it comes to FF, I kinda expect some -fanserivice- but from early previews, its just a bit too much. I mean, I dont think they seen Miss Fuglyera video, but Rikku is too-damn-close to "She thinks shes Beautiful" Christina for my liking. It does not help matters as well, when the Music that they will be using is still based on old SNES Music Tech...

 

DC2 is the best RPG this year relased in the states hands down. (IMHO)

[Conspiracy_Victim 0]

Yeha DC 2 was a good one (finally got through chapter 8, what a pain). As a guy, I'm still looking forward to X-2. The only FF's I've played are VIII and X and I liked both of them personally. Yes the junction system sucked and yes blitzball got tedious as hell after a while but I felt the production values enhanced the games, not just covered up any mistakes that might have been made.

 

BTW for all you DC2 fans I read that production on the next one has already started. It's actually being tentatively titled "Dark Cloud 3.5" because they plan on it being so much more enhanced than the typical sequel. We'll see.

[Rendclaw 0]

I have a question for Rend, Jobber and Andrew. You guys aren't like blowing me off like "oh you like this crap? Well, you're a girl, that's why. It doesn't count then" are you?

 

I agree stuff like Squall/Rinoa and the goofy antics of FFX-2 may appeal to girls and I don't doubt my gender could play a role in why I enjoy that stuff, but it's not like it's the only reason. It's not like I am not a "real gamer" who just plays them because I was born female. I like stuff like violent fighting games and I am sure there's tons of guys who like VIII and will like X-2.

 

I hope you guys aren't saying I'm less of a fan or just some girl or whatever because I like FMV and Squall....

No, not at all, but being a male in my 30s, I can certainly see where they are going with the series. You like different things than I do. Its plausible that you and I can like the same game for radically different reasons. That doesn't invalidate you in my eyes in any way. Hell I like you because you aren't ashamed to say *why* you like a game, and can do so admirably.

 

Not to mention I think you;re cool cause you own arcade cabinets, but thats well-documented.

 

Me, I want an RPG that makes me think and strategize. When I am not doing that, I want a story that what I think is good. As far as RPGs go these days, Baldur's Gate 2 for the PC fulfills both aspects of what I am looking for. To clarify I rank the following:

 

1. Gameplay

2. Storyline

3. Graphics/Sound

 

I could care less if the music and graphics are average, as long as it makes me want to fire up my PS2 the moment I get home from work and see what will happen in an extended session tonight. On a tangent, I would rather see an RPG that was almost back down to SNES levels of graphics and sound if it meant that the game had 150 hours of gameplay, and a storyline that could hook you from word one.

 

I'm sorry if you thought that I was discounting you, but that was not my intention at all. Do I find it disappointing that Square is taking the easy road rather than busting ass and making an RPG that can be more balanced in all areas? Yes, I do. I think they are pandering, and its sad to see.

 

Again, my opinion. Take it for what its worth.

Edited June 25, 2003 by Rendclaw