Guest Goodear Report post Posted June 20, 2003 Brock's finally starting to get over right now as well so I think if you turn him heel, you'll kill his heat and thus kill Kurt's heat if they feud. Only way Brock could be over as a heel is with Heyman and even then, Brock's too vanilla in the ring to work as a heel(intensity = face pops) but it's able to work as a face cause of his intesnity Yeah, Brock isn't suited for heeldom. Everything he does that isn't dull (BEAR HUGGERY) is all sort of pop worthy since he throws people about a mile away. Turn him heel and you'll end up like we are now with Angle, tossing out bodypresses and flying forearms. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 20, 2003 I think the win over Haas was SUPPOSED to do that. But the two beatdowns sort of erased that from the fans' memories so nobody got anything out of the deal. So if I have the book, Angle plays the hero for the six man since Hogan is completely industructable in the heat sense and Brock will get heat simply off tossing Show around which he can do without playing the hot face. IDEA! Have Angle defeat Show next week, and build tension: Angle can do it, but Brock hasn't been able to pin Show. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 20, 2003 with The reports that CENA is getting a face run against Matt Hardy for the summer program... It looks like the Cena Led Faction angle will not come to futition... I still say CENA is the right guy to go with however... Maybe Vince is smarter then we think and he realizes that CENA/ANGLE would get a double turn should they fued. CENA has that ROCKISM workin for him where the fans REALLY want to cheer the heel... They should've cleared the lines and just have Rhyno flat out attack Benoit and turn heel and stick him with Heyman... The Best Damn Tag Team Period is still loyal to Heyman So presto...Rhyno/TBS/TBDTTP Vs Lesnar/Angle/Benoit was set up for you there... Leaving Cena in the UPPER card with Hardy and allows him to get over huge... You get Angle/Benoit for Vengence and you go with Rhyno/Lesnar as well and Put Los Guerreos back with Team Heyman... Then you go with Lesnar/Angle/Benoit for SummerSlam with Rhyno fighting the new FACE superstar CENA... Benoit pulls the upset... Benoit fights Angle in a 60 Minute Iron Man match at No Mercy...Angle wins the title back and is a tweener... You slowly re-build the Lesnar/Angle II match for Mania... But keep the same Upper Level Top 8 Lesnar/Angle/Rhyno/Haas/Benjamin/Haas/TBS/Cena and You got it working... But I'm banking "Mr. America" gets a run with the title at some point this Fall with Heel turned Undertaker... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 20, 2003 I like the Idea...Lesnar can't beat TBS but Angle can... Although we'd have to ignore Rumble but change it to "Lesnar can't beat TBS in a title Match"... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 20, 2003 There are no strong heels on Smackdown. It takes about 4 months to make a strong main event level heel (2 ppvs, maybe 3). Brock vs. Angle with no heel will be goofy. It will be "Brock does something, Kurt smiles. Kurt does something, Brock smiles. They shake hands. Brock does something, Kurt blocks, Brock smiles. Kurt does something, Brock blocks, Kurt smiles. They both do the same thing, both smile. Shake hands. Brock hands Kurt a flower. Kurt blushes. Kurt hands Brock some chocolates. Brock blushes. Shake hands. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nikowwf Report post Posted June 20, 2003 I like Angle / Lesnar vs. Benoit & Hass & Benjamin. I like Angle beating Big Show and hinting Brock couldn't but he could. I then like Benoit taking the title from Brock, and Brock and Angle both wanting to go after him for the title. Then when one of them regains it, Angle can win the rematch and become a solid top tier babyface. niko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 20, 2003 Lesnar can't play a Heel with Angle...Angle if anyone will have to at least go tweener... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 20, 2003 Brock has a natural physical advantage over Angle. Angle also has the "injury" sustained in his match with Brock. I can not see how Brock can't "play" that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 20, 2003 Brock has a natural physical advantage over Angle. Angle also has the "injury" sustained in his match with Brock. I can not see how Brock can't "play" that. Alot of that made Brock a face in the first place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 20, 2003 Of course, Brock's character would change - he'd be afraid of Angle. He wasn't afraid of anyone when he was a heel before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 20, 2003 Afraid is SUCH a stretch. How about jealous? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 20, 2003 Jealous works and it doesn't. I'd like Jealous-and-Confused, because that still would make him afraid as he doesn't know how to handle the situation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nanks Report post Posted June 20, 2003 Well, he's been back three weeks. Since then, he's been beat up three times and saved twice. It makes him look incompetant. I didn't think him Angle Slamming TBS when Brock couldn't F-5 him made him look so incompetent. And since Mr. America and Brock both got beaten down at the end with Angle it didn't look nearly as bad for him. I also have to believe that since the 3 top faces were left laying at the end of SD! they have to come out on top at the end of the show at MSG. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 20, 2003 Well, he's been back three weeks. Since then, he's been beat up three times and saved twice. It makes him look incompetant. I didn't think him Angle Slamming TBS when Brock couldn't F-5 him made him look so incompetent. And since Mr. America and Brock both got beaten down at the end with Angle it didn't look nearly as bad for him. I also have to believe that since the 3 top faces were left laying at the end of SD! they have to come out on top at the end of the show at MSG. Explain the other two weeks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 21, 2003 He got blindsided by his fired ex-teamates...Which was CRUCIAL that they did that to sell The Best Damn Tag Team Period as heels... Cant recall week one tho... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Just John 0 Report post Posted June 21, 2003 The bad part about Angle being a face, is it kills one of his strongest points: mic work. Kurt is natural at garnering cheap heat by mocking the local culture, but can also do good insense-style promos as well. As seen in 2001, Angle's mic work as a face is embarassing. Whether it's saying "it's ok to relieve yourself in your tights after the match," or "kicking dirt" on Haas and Benjamin, it's painfully apparent that Kurt just doesn't fit in a face role. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 21, 2003 He got blindsided by his fired ex-teamates...Which was CRUCIAL that they did that to sell The Best Damn Tag Team Period as heels... Fine. Do that. But then don't have him beat up and or/saved eight times before and after that. Cant recall week one tho... Big Show. Kurt was Molah 2.0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 21, 2003 Angle cannot do intense mic work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nanks Report post Posted June 21, 2003 I can't defend week 1, that was fucked. I choose to pretend that never happened, it was too beyond ridiculous. Last week, the angle was TBDTTP severing ties with Kurt and if Kurt had come out on top of that then it would've killed them straight away. They're trying to get TBDTTP over big here, and they can't be continually beaten down by their former mentor if that's gonna happen. So for me Week 1 - I'm choosing to block it out as a trauma Week 2 - Necessary in effecting the break-away of TBDTTP Week 3 - Won a match & fell to 2-on-1 odds, fair enough. Angle slammed TBS and went down with the other two top faces, fair enough. It could be better, but it's not that bad so far, and I don't think they'll let him, Hogan or Brock get beat down in MSG. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 21, 2003 I can't defend week 1, that was fucked. I choose to pretend that never happened, it was too beyond ridiculous. Last week, the angle was TBDTTP severing ties with Kurt and if Kurt had come out on top of that then it would've killed them straight away. They're trying to get TBDTTP over big here, and they can't be continually beaten down by their former mentor if that's gonna happen. So for me Week 1 - I'm choosing to block it out as a trauma Week 2 - Necessary in effecting the break-away of TBDTTP Week 3 - Won a match & fell to 2-on-1 odds, fair enough. Angle slammed TBS and went down with the other two top faces, fair enough. It could be better, but it's not that bad so far, and I don't think they'll let him, Hogan or Brock get beat down in MSG. I wouldn't have minded SO much if it was just one beatdown (The first or second, either way) Two was too much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nanks Report post Posted June 21, 2003 I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect Angle to be treated as some kind of untouchable lethal weapon. He has to be a vulnerable to a degree. Obviously not to the damsel-in-distress-come-save-me-almighty-Brock degree, but it wouldn't have made sense for Benjamin not to come back down and do the 2-on-1 beat down after that match. As for the 2nd beatdown, it's not like he got in no offence, he was then blindsided and was beaten down just like the other two. I have no beef with his use this week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 21, 2003 I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect Angle to be treated as some kind of untouchable lethal weapon. Not to that degree. But the fans are not, not, not going to get behind a guy who gets his ass handed to him multiple times on a show, a guy who always needs saving. They need to mix a little dominance in there as well. he was then blindsided and was beaten down just like the other two The other two only got it once. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted June 22, 2003 <<<Benoit is not really a good heel. In fact his heel character is his face character, just beating up on the good guys, and vice-versa. There's no depth there.>>> Benoit has been a heel 85% of his career as has Jericho. I like Angle as a face. You just don't boo an American Olympic Hero damn it! I really enjoyed his face run during the Alliance although I was pissed about the way his title reign was handled, also with his character during late 2001. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 22, 2003 That's something alot of people forget, even his little two week title reign absolutely SUCKED. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted June 22, 2003 ^You can thank Vince/Austin/creative team for that *remembers Angle/Austin @ Unforgiven 2001, good times Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 22, 2003 I don't know who was to blame for that. Yeah, he shouldn't have had the belt to begin with (He should have gotten it at Summerslam) But if you are giving it to him for three weeks, make it a good three weeks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted June 22, 2003 Austin never did want to put Angle over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Murmuring Beast 0 Report post Posted June 22, 2003 Angle shouldn't have gotten the belt at Summerslam. What would be the point in Angle winning that match? The point was to build the feud so that Austin would go to any lengths so he wouldn't ever have to defend the title again against Angle. Winning it at Unforgiven was perfect, but I don't really understand Austin winning it back two weeks later. I'm sure they could have built a story line around him until Survivor Series. Angle would have had more heat on him as heel if he sold-out and took the belt with him to the Alliance. But I suppose that would rule out the ironic finish to the SS match. Ah well. Next week's 6 man should be good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 22, 2003 He was really over going into Summerslam. Going into Unforgiven, pre-911, and even post Unforgiven, not so much. I actually heard that the original plan was for Austin to DQ himself at SS, beat Angle thanks to Regal at Unforgiven, and beat him AGAIN at No Mercy. What in all hell denying Angle three PPV's in a row would have accomplished (besides destroying him for a damn long time) I have no idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest godthedog Report post Posted June 22, 2003 <<<Benoit is not really a good heel. In fact his heel character is his face character, just beating up on the good guys, and vice-versa. There's no depth there.>>> Benoit has been a heel 85% of his career as has Jericho. doesn't change the fact that he's a much better face. benoit has the ability to go all ricky steamboat on a match and flat-out MAKE the crowd cheer for him. his offense is spectacular, making him look like a badass, and he's a natural underdog. but i've never seen benoit make a crowd boo him. first, because his offense just looks too damn cool. did anybody REALLY want to boo him against rvd when he busted out the rolling hammerlock northern lights suplexes? second, because he doesn't play to the crowd enough. eddie knows how to temper his awesome offense with the occasional "up yours" to the audience; benoit's never learned the art of it. you could argue that it just isn't part of his character, but it's something that doesn't get him over as a heel. he always gets a much bigger reaction from the crowd as a face than as a heel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
