Who wants to see Randy Orton pushed down our...

[Guest OnlyMe]

Isn't that the same line of thinking that guys like HHH would use to hold on to their spots on the top?

 

It is indeed.

 

I really don't see Randy literally main eventing anyway. His last opponent was Maven after all. They'll want him up there eventually but it will be a slow burn. Even HHH and Brock took about 6 months with their God pushes to get the belt. Orton's has only just started.

 

We'll see how he goes, but I can't see someone who beats HBK and Foley floundering in the midcard. But we don't truly know, so lets give it a chance.

 

As far as Booker goes, this may ruffle a few feathers but he really isn't that good. He's been booked horribly from the beginning and deserves much more than he got, but people want to compare him to the likes of Jericho and Benoit, which is way off. I'd compare him to Steiner if anyone, and I don't see many people clamoring for his run with the title.

 

Booker's alright... I have no problems with him. He's had no stand out matches in WWE and yes, he's been booked awfully. (remember when he debuted, and lost to Rock in two successive PPVS - once when he had Shane on his team too!) He's never had a *big* win, and his highlight was probably the tag title win with Goldy.

[Guest Anglesault]

Johnson...Nunzio does your gimmick better. just stop it.

 

And how can Orton be the next big thing when Lesnar already HEADLINED WM and won every title and Award possible in 16 months time?

 

You dont get any BIGGER then that my friend...

 

Orton will be in a hospital gown with his Phone Sex Operator business come XX.

First off I am not a gimmick. I am a fan who likes what I like. Second, the only reason that Brock is where he is, is because he was shoved down our throats. But he can't really work a match.

And Orton can?

 

As bad as early Brock was, Orton is so much worse.

[Guest Choken One]

Choken, you have become what you "rebelled" against so long ago. Sad.

 

What's so wrong with Johnson liking what he likes? There's no "standard" to uphold. I mean geez, we're watching guys run around in underwear and a 56 year old man fooled by a fucking mask. The hero of most of these guys here is some midget with a missing tooth. That's laughable right there. But whatever.

Explain to me how I gone against what I've rebelled against?

 

 

I still think Benoit is not JESUS christ and doesn't deserve the blowjobs he gets around here every second...

 

 

I was simply telling this idiot that he was a fan of WRESTLING but merely enterained by wrestling.

 

Meaning he takes like what McMahon wants people to take it as

 

"An two hour soap opera with some violence and comedy" he puts that over wrestling.

 

I was merely telling him that Randy Orton isn't anything speciial.

 

He is playing the same gimmick that Shawn Stasiak and Shane Douglas and even Triple H played.

 

Orton isn't better then Lesnar, Lesnar whom is a LEGIT wrestler and not an entertainer...

 

 

Where did I become what I rebelled against? Tell me.

[Guest razazteca]

I am still waiting for Goldust & Booker T to get revenge on Evolution.

 

I will hold my breath until it happens.

[Guest AndrewTS]

As for the comparison to Brock--he got almost ZERO heat during his early stint, and only got over because the fans wanted him as a face, not as a heel.

 

Also, being fed Hogan, Rock, and the Undertaker helped a hell of a lot.

 

Orton can talk and being fed legends could help him get over. That doesn't mean he doesn't suck in the ring, though.

[Guest Choken One]

Yes, Orton can work the mic using his generic heel character but I was merely fighting johnson's statement that Orton was better then Lesnar which was complete and utter bullshit.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

A few things before I let this thread be:

 

Choken is right - Lesnar is a legit wrestler. Orton is a guy with the look of a model, like I said before, who is only a wrestler because his daddy and grandaddy were, and that's the basis of his push. There's the difference and I don't see how that's so hard to comprehend.

 

Five or six "RNN~!"s in a row in the RAW threads were fucking annoying. Those that constantly did that should now be hanging their heads in shame.

 

I love how those that only registered a few weeks ago know about board happenings from last fall. *cough*bannedposters*cough* Someone should look into that.

 

Anyone who 'rebels' against a fucking message board is in desparate need of something to do. Seriously.

[Guest OnlyMe]

I love how those that only registered a few weeks ago know about board happenings from last fall. *cough*bannedposters*cough* Someone should look into that.

 

I've only been registered here a few months, but I've read the boards since the old EZBoard. Your attitude is pretty ignorant. While he could be a banned poster, it isn't your place to say... y'know?

[Guest jester]

Here's my problem with the Orton push: it demonstrates how the company's basic operations are flawed.

 

Here's how I think introducing a wrestler should work.

 

1. Examine a wrestler's strengths. (ring, promos, charisma, etc)

 

2. Give him a gimmick that works with his strengths.

 

3. Put him in matches that would complimnent his style.

 

4. WATCH HOW THE CROWDS REACT TO HIM.

 

5. If they don't react to him, hide him for awhile and bring him back with something new. If they do react to him, give him the push.

 

Here's how the WWE does it:

 

1. Pick someone who has no baggage (no loyalty to pre-existing clique, ties to WCW, or has been around WWE forever).

 

2. PUSH THE HELL OUT OF THEM. Start with the top of the card if necessary. Have them waltz through other wrestlers. Reorganize the entire fed so that they drool at the mention of his name, even it makes no sense (ie, JR loving Orton, who is a heel).

 

3. If the crowd is not reacting, or reacting in a contrary way, push the wrestler harder until they react in the way you want.

 

4. After the audience is universally pulling in one direction for that wrestler for a few months, be it a face/heel turn, or wanting them gone, THEN give them what they want. Maybe.

 

Basically, in the case of Orton, they are doing things the hard way. Like they did with HHH. They chose HHH, and then convinced the audience to accept him. Not the other way around.

 

They are training the audience to like who they want us to like, not noticing who we like and then delivering them. It's just not efficient or good business.

 

It may be possible to get Orton over, and make him a big star. But I don't understand why you'd do that when you've got other wrestlers the audience has already hinted they'd like to see.

[Guest Anglesault]

I like Orton and its good to see at least some new blood getting a push. I'd like to see RVD and company pushed as well but some people here have the attitude "if my favorites can't be pushed, then no one can!"

In a way, that is the way I feel.

 

When I want someone new pushed to the top, I want someone who the fans react to and someone who can put on a good match. If they choose someone who doesn't meet that criterion, than it is unacceptable.

[Guest Choken One]

Exactly why John Cena shouldn't be wrestling squashes on Velocity when it's clear that he is getting crazy over.

 

Yes, go ahead and throw out the Backlash match because it means nothing...

 

It wasn't even the Main event for the show and was pretty much a Lesnar Squash.

 

Cena is getting great reactions and is no worse then Orton in the ring but Cena has a fresh gimmick as opposed to Orton's Wonderboy gimmick that was done by about 90% of indy wrestlers and low totem jobbers around North America.

 

I'm not saying Orton doesn't have "it"...the kid got charisma and I cant deny that but that doesn't mean he needs to be shoved down our throats.

[Murmuring Beast 0]

I love how those that only registered a few weeks ago know about board happenings from last fall. *cough*bannedposters*cough* Someone should look into that.

 

I've been coming to this board since it began and beyond, and so could he, so don't give me your shite. I re-registered after losing my password under a previous name.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I don't get it... First Brock Lesnar and now Orton!?

Well, since the Brock push resulted in a tremendously over new Main-Eventer, I say keep this push going, as soon as he gets over turn him face, and have HHH drop the title to him.

[Guest razazteca]

Post counts are really meaningless, especially if a poster can, you know put some thought in a discussion.

 

As for this arguement about Orton well I do not like the push. I do not think Randy is as good on the mic as some say. In the battle of words vs Foley, Randy looked outclassed by the superior Rassler, Foley. Randy looked like he was just repeating his lines that he memorizied a few hours earlier with HHH and Flair trying to keep Orton from losing his confidence.

 

On the positive side at least Randy Orton has a simple finisher, in which it would be hard to hurt himself using it.

[Guest Choken One]

but the thing is...What incintive do the fans have to cheer for a good looking, cocky Wonderboy gimmick?

 

Orton's gimmick is what they give people who can't wrestle and use for cheap heat...Only Rick Martel made the gimmick work and still was a good wrestler...

 

Shawn was a different character of sorts...

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

HHH actually got 2 god pushes. One in 1999 and one in 2002 (That is still going on today).

 

I don't know why he got one in 2002 since the 1999 one didn't pay-off.

 

I'd rather have Orton than Cena.

[Guest UndertakerHart]

Hey, well at least the WWF(E) kknows how to push a main eventer. WCW never knew how to.

 

 

This thread has turned into HHH bashing thread.

 

 

Remember when Austin wasn't over and all you heard was silience when he wrestled.

 

 

What ever happened to that guy? I think he might of died.

 

 

Same thing happened to Hogan.

 

 

Just accept the fact that people need to built. If Orton turns into the Rock at least we won't see him for 9 months out of the year.

[Guest razazteca]

You know what Randy Orton needs................obscene foul languange, to get over, yeah that's the ticket.

[Guest OnlyMe]

Post counts are really meaningless, especially if a poster can, you know put some thought in a discussion.

 

Anglesault has over 10,000 posts... I think that says a lot

 

In the battle of words vs Foley, Randy looked outclassed by the superior Rassler, Foley. Randy looked like he was just repeating his lines that he memorizied a few hours earlier with HHH and Flair trying to keep Orton from losing his confidence.

 

I meant to say something related the other day, actually... You know the HHH / Foley "war of the words" on Raw, when Foley returned? Triple H came out with the same line he's been repeating for 3 1/2 years: "I retired Mick Foley."

 

Mick came right back with words from the heart, "...but you didn't KEEP me down." The difference between HHH's boring, repetitive "look how good I am" speech, and Foley's new, slightly bad ass, "don't fuck with me, son" attitude was incredible.

 

Nik

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

but the thing is...What incintive do the fans have to cheer for a good looking, cocky Wonderboy gimmick?

 

Orton's gimmick is what they give people who can't wrestle and use for cheap heat...Only Rick Martel made the gimmick work and still was a good wrestler...

 

Shawn was a different character of sorts...

*cough Rick Rude cough*

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

HHH actually got 2 god pushes. One in 1999 and one in 2002 (That is still going on today).

 

I don't know why he got one in 2002 since the 1999 one didn't pay-off.

 

I'd rather have Orton than Cena.

Yeah, the 1999 one just turned him into the most over heel in the company and led him into the best year of his career (2000) which ALSO was the most financially successful of the WWF's history, mind you. It also made him the #2 Man in the company behind The Rock and was probobly the most lucrative reign for a heel champion EVER. (In the WWE)

[Guest Anglesault]

I don't get it... First Brock Lesnar and now Orton!?

Well, since the Brock push resulted in a tremendously over new Main-Eventer, I say keep this push going, as soon as he gets over turn him face, and have HHH drop the title to him.

So monster push a guy for no apparent reason on the hope that lighting will strike twice?

[Guest Choken One]

All right...TWO people then...good call.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I don't get it... First Brock Lesnar and now Orton!?

Well, since the Brock push resulted in a tremendously over new Main-Eventer, I say keep this push going, as soon as he gets over turn him face, and have HHH drop the title to him.

So monster push a guy for no apparent reason on the hope that lighting will strike twice?

No, I just pointed out that was a BAD example.

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

Yes, Orton can work the mic using his generic heel character but I was merely fighting johnson's statement that Orton was better then Lesnar which was complete and utter bullshit.

You're reading what you want to Choken. Nowhere did I say either was better then the other. I did say that Brock's in ring performance isn't that great, about as good as Goldberg IMO. Plus his mic skills are non existant.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Yes, Orton can work the mic using his generic heel character but I was merely fighting johnson's statement that Orton was better then Lesnar which was complete and utter bullshit.

You're reading what you want to Choken. Nowhere did I say either was better then the other. I did say that Brock's in ring performance isn't that great, about as good as Goldberg IMO. Plus his mic skills are non existant.

Brock's energy, timing, and psychology are far better then Goldberg.

 

 

Plus, in what universe would Goldberg/Show be above DUD? Brock has gotten multiple star matches out of Show.

[Guest Anglesault]

Yes, Orton can work the mic using his generic heel character but I was merely fighting johnson's statement that Orton was better then Lesnar which was complete and utter bullshit.

You're reading what you want to Choken. Nowhere did I say either was better then the other. I did say that Brock's in ring performance isn't that great, about as good as Goldberg IMO. Plus his mic skills are non existant.

Please show us how Orton is any good at all.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Amount of People HHH Put Over: 0

 

And now we have the situation we're at today - no new stars (which is to say, Benoit, Jericho still in the mid-card and Angle still a goof)

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Hey, at least WWE is pushing some of the younger talent, good for them.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Amount of People HHH Put Over: 0

 

And now we have the situation we're at today - no new stars (which is to say, Benoit, Jericho still in the mid-card and Angle still a goof)

But that wasn't because of the push.

 

The push worked, like it or not. HHH is the asshole. Besides, if his quad injury had never happened and he was as good as he was in 2000/2001, then no one would have a problem with his current position in RAW.