Guest Cancer Marney Report post Posted June 25, 2003 Let's give an example using your logic- some Christians a long time ago in Salem were judgemental murderers who burned alleged witches at the stake. Therefore, under your logic, it's a-ok to say ALL Christians are judgemental murderers! Your parallel is absurd. If Christians today continued to burn alleged witches at the stake, they would indeed be judgemental murderers and their history would be open to comment. As the French have been and continue to be cowards, ingrates, and backbiters, they are open to criticism and their history is open to comment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted June 25, 2003 I'm going to have to agree with Duo here. Even though I like and respect Marney as a poster, I strongly disagree with what she is saying now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kamui Report post Posted June 25, 2003 Let's give an example using your logic- some Christians a long time ago in Salem were judgemental murderers who burned alleged witches at the stake. Therefore, under your logic, it's a-ok to say ALL Christians are judgemental murderers! Your parallel is absurd. If Christians today continued to burn alleged witches at the stake, they would indeed be judgemental murderers and their history would be open to comment. As the French have been and continue to be cowards, ingrates, and backbiters, they are open to criticism and their history is open to comment. It's your opinion that they're doing those things. You have shown no proof of this other than the fact that they don't agree with the American government's decision to go to war with Iraq. Well whoopy-fuck. A lot more countries didn't agree with it- so what? Hell, I didn't agree with it and neither did many other Americans, gonna hate all us too? And if you're going to pull out the "The French government made a business deal with a dictator!" line, apparently you don't know your history very well. America has made a long history of making deals with dictators. -Duo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cancer Marney Report post Posted June 25, 2003 the French would have a MUCH better view of the US if we weren't always making them the butts of our jokes They like Jerry Lewis for God's sake. What do you expect? The way I see it, if someone hates French people in general, they can't accurately judge an individual French person. There is a very thin line between joking and hate.Maybe for you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted June 25, 2003 Your parallel is absurd. If Christians today continued to burn alleged witches at the stake, they would indeed be judgemental murderers and their history would be open to comment. As the French have been and continue to be cowards, ingrates, and backbiters, they are open to criticism and their history is open to comment. I don't believe the French have surrendered in a war anytime recently. They just didn't support the US in their quest to gain a UN sanction. We shouldn't have gone to the UN anyways. After all, we were going to war no matter what. So why would we want approval? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cancer Marney Report post Posted June 25, 2003 It's your opinion that they're doing those things. Correct. No one's forcing you to agree with it at gunpoint, although your martyr complex seems to make you believe I am. I didn't agree with it and neither did many other Americans, gonna hate all us too? Yep. And if you're going to pull out the "The French government made a business deal with a dictator!" line, apparently you don't know your history very well. America has made a long history of making deals with dictators. Oh my! Really? Golly gee! Won't you please educate me, o learned history professor? Drop the silly personal attacks already. We've had long debates about these very subjects in the CE forum; if you continue, I can simply cut and paste them here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kamui Report post Posted June 25, 2003 Your parallel is absurd. If Christians today continued to burn alleged witches at the stake, they would indeed be judgemental murderers and their history would be open to comment. As the French have been and continue to be cowards, ingrates, and backbiters, they are open to criticism and their history is open to comment. I don't believe the French have surrendered in a war anytime recently. They just didn't support the US in their quest to gain a UN sanction. We shouldn't have gone to the UN anyways. After all, we were going to war no matter what. So why would we want approval? Now, even I'm going to admit that the UN has been pretty pointless for a while now. However, the US completley ignoring the UN on this matter was pretty much the final death blow to the orginization, in my view. Look at it this way- if a country that America's not bestest pals with invaded another country without UN consent, Bush would be out there making a big speech (and mis-pronouncing the big words) condemning them for acting without the UN. America's government are a bunch of liars and hypocrites. Just like every other government. -Duo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cancer Marney Report post Posted June 25, 2003 I don't believe the French have surrendered in a war anytime recently. They haven't been in a real war anytime recently. I'm still surprised they managed to stay in Algeria as long as they did. We shouldn't have gone to the UN anyways. After all, we were going to war no matter what. So why would we want approval? Very true. If we hadn't, we would've been criticised for ignoring the UN. Of course, we were criticised for ignoring the UN anyway, so I agree it was somewhat pointless. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kamui Report post Posted June 25, 2003 The point of all this (which you continually changed throughout your posts) wasn't your opinion about the French government, it was the fact that you make blanket statements about the French. Why not attempt to knock down old walls of hatred and prejudice, rather than build new ones? -Duo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted June 25, 2003 America's government are a bunch of liars and hypocrites. Just like every other government. Hm. Can a purely chaste goverment survive in this day and age? I'm not disagreeing with you, just proposing a question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cancer Marney Report post Posted June 25, 2003 However, the US completley ignoring the UN on this matter was pretty much the final death blow to the orginization, in my view. One can hope. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kamui Report post Posted June 25, 2003 America's government are a bunch of liars and hypocrites. Just like every other government. Hm. Can a purely chaste goverment survive in this day and age? I'm not disagreeing with you, just proposing a question. The WMD fiasco convinced me that the Bush government is such a government. If that won't convince you, nothing will. -Duo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kamui Report post Posted June 25, 2003 However, the US completley ignoring the UN on this matter was pretty much the final death blow to the orginization, in my view. One can hope. Oh yes, let's head back to how the world was before the UN was created! And people wonder why there are fake slogans like "2004- Vote for Bush and Support Armageddon!" showing up. -Duo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted June 25, 2003 I'd be very interested in hearing how someone would improve the French goverment (without violence). And I'm serious on this. Does anyone have a reasonable approach? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kamui Report post Posted June 25, 2003 I'd be very interested in hearing how someone would improve the French goverment (without violence). And I'm serious on this. Does anyone have a reasonable approach? Why do we need to "improve" the French government? Maybe it is our own government that needs the improving. -Duo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cancer Marney Report post Posted June 25, 2003 The point of all this (which you continually changed throughout your posts) wasn't your opinion about the French government Maybe that wasn't your point. It was mine from the beginning, and it remained consistent throughout. it was the fact that you make blanket statements about the French Cry me a river. I'm sure the streets of Paris are already flooded over with tears because I said some mean things about the French on an internet message board. Why not attempt to knock down old walls of hatred and prejudice, rather than build new ones? This isn't a new one. Everyone hates the French. Everyone always has. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cancer Marney Report post Posted June 25, 2003 Oh yes, let's head back to how the world was before the UN was created! ... Or after. I mean, Rwanda, Congo, and Bosnia were such shining examples of UN efficacy and relevance, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted June 25, 2003 Why do we need to "improve" the French government? Maybe it is our own government that needs the improving. I wasn't saying they do need improving. I pretty much agree with you. That question was proposed to people who do not like the current French goverment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kamui Report post Posted June 25, 2003 Maybe that wasn't your point. It was mine from the beginning, and it remained consistent throughout. "I hate the French." and "I hate the actions of the French government." are two different things. Why can't you see that? Cry me a river. I'm sure the streets of Paris are already flooded over with tears because I said some mean things about the French on an internet message board. Ah, so now it's okay to make prejudicial comments about another group as long as they don't know it. Well, I really hate gay people! Oops, hope there's not any gay people on this board! This isn't a new one. Everyone hates the French. Everyone always has. Ah, so now it's okay to hate people if that view is shared by lots of other people! -Duo The logic of a hate-monger, ladies and gentlemen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye Report post Posted June 25, 2003 Duo Posted on Jun 25 2003, 01:14 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTE (JMA @ Jun 25 2003, 04:13 AM) QUOTE (Duo @ Jun 25 2003, 03:11 AM) America's government are a bunch of liars and hypocrites. Just like every other government. Hm. Can a purely chaste goverment survive in this day and age? I'm not disagreeing with you, just proposing a question. The WMD fiasco convinced me that the Bush government is such a government. If that won't convince you, nothing will. -Duo Yeah, you're right. Marney ain't allowed blanket statements but you are. Shit, that's all I got for this thread right now. Carry on knocking down brick walls with tennis balls. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted June 25, 2003 This isn't a new one. Everyone hates the French. Everyone always has. That's inaccurate. I know it's a joke and but... not everyone hates the French. Just needed to state that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kamui Report post Posted June 25, 2003 Oh yes, let's head back to how the world was before the UN was created! ... Or after. I mean, Rwanda, Congo, and Bosnia were such shining examples of UN efficacy and relevance, right? I never claimed the UN was perfect, but have we had any wars on the scale of World War I or II since it was formed? Thumbtack, if I said that I hate all of the people who ever took part in government work, it MIGHT be comparable to what she's saying. -Duo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye Report post Posted June 25, 2003 Thumbtack, if I said that I hate all of the people who ever took part in government work, it MIGHT be comparable to what she's saying You're still doing the same thing. I'm not comparing the forcefullness of anyones comment Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cancer Marney Report post Posted June 25, 2003 "I hate the French." and "I hate the actions of the French government." are two different things. Why can't you see that? When there is broad-based support for the French government's actions among the French people, the reason for hating them translates easily. They both hold an immoral point of view. Why can't you see that? Ah, so now it's okay to make prejudicial comments about another group as long as they don't know it. No, you flaming retard. Continue to invent motivations for me if you must, but it should be obvious to any reasonable person that I meant simply that it doesn't MATTER what I say about the French. The French don't care. You seem to be one of the few people who does. Well, I really hate gay people! Oops, hope there's not any gay people on this board! Too late. And guess what? I don't care if you hate gay people. Ah, so now it's okay to hate people if that view is shared by lots of other people! Sheer invention again. I merely pointed out that I wasn't "building new walls of hatred and prejudice." Do you ever get tired of your own fabricated melodrama? The logic of a hate-monger, ladies and gentlemen. Goodness, you really are desperate for attention. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cancer Marney Report post Posted June 25, 2003 I never claimed the UN was perfect, but have we had any wars on the scale of World War I or II since it was formed? Do you attribute that to the UN, or the overwhelming military superiority the United States had over practically every other country in the world immediately following the Cold War? And the development of nuclear weapons immediately following WW2? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kamui Report post Posted June 25, 2003 When there is broad-based support for the French government's actions among the French people, the reason for hating them translates easily. They both hold an immoral point of view. Why can't you see that? You can claim "broad support", but that means that you're hating the French people because they support their government. Don't most people support the government of the country they were raised in? It's not really grounds to say "I hate them all!". No, you flaming retard. Continue to invent motivations for me if you must, but it should be obvious to any reasonable person that I meant simply that it doesn't MATTER what I say about the French. The French don't care. You seem to be one of the few people who does. I'm waiting on the link to a result of a poll that claims the majority of the French people don't care whether we hate them or not, otherwise you pulled that out of your ass. Too late. And guess what? I don't care if you hate gay people. I was making an example (I'll leave the anti-gay prejudice to the Christian community, thanks). Guess your sarcasm-detector's not working. Sheer invention again. I merely pointed out that I wasn't "building new walls of hatred and prejudice." Do you ever get tired of your own fabricated melodrama? Okay, so strengthening a new wall that already exists, whatever. Still, why not attempt to tear that wall down? Goodness, you really are desperate for attention. No, just like exposing hate-mongers for what they really are. -Duo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kamui Report post Posted June 25, 2003 I never claimed the UN was perfect, but have we had any wars on the scale of World War I or II since it was formed? Do you attribute that to the UN, or the overwhelming military superiority the United States had over practically every other country in the world immediately following the Cold War? And the development of nuclear weapons immediately following WW2? I give some credit to the US government- however, the UN deserves the majority of it, in my book. Without the UN to hold things together, do you REALLY think all of these nuclear superpowers wouldn't have started duking it out by now? The more countries Bush pisses off, the closer we get to another World War. This one with nuclear weapons. If he doesn't get the hell out of the office in 2004, we're all in BIG trouble. -Duo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted June 25, 2003 When there is broad-based support for the French government's actions among the French people, the reason for hating them translates easily. They both hold an immoral point of view. Why can't you see that? Is everything America does moral? We've done some pretty immoral things in the past. France has too. Many innocents have been killed by both of these countries. I just wouldn't call the French "immoral" for trying to block the UN sanction. So what if a lot of the French agree with Chirac? Who cares? Lots of Americans agree with Bush. No reason to hate all Americans just because some agree with him. Bush should blame himself and not the French. If he would have attacked Iraq without going through all the international red-tape we wouldn't be in this mess. Now, I don't believe Iraq had WMDs, but I accept the possibility that they might have had them. If Bush had attacked suddenly we would know for sure. If there actually were WMDs, they're long gone by now. Sigh. I REALLY wish we'd just have taken down Saddam in the first Gulf War. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cancer Marney Report post Posted June 25, 2003 Okay, Duo, setting aside the name-calling and the wildly emotional tone you've introduced into this thread for a moment, are we just having a problem with semantics here? I mean do you sincerely believe that if I met some girl who supported the US in our war against terrorists, and was as disgusted by Chirac's actions as I am, and later I discovered that she just happened to be French - do you sincerely believe that I would hate her based on the fact that she was French? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kamui Report post Posted June 25, 2003 Okay, setting aside the name-calling and the wildly emotional tone you've introduced into this thread for a moment, are we just having a problem with semantics here? I mean do you sincerely believe that if I met some girl who supported the US in our war against terrorists, and was as disgusted by Chirac's actions as I am, and later I discovered that she just happened to be French - do you sincerely believe that I would hate her based on the fact that she was French? No. But I'm claiming that it's not right to HATE someone just because they agree with their own government! Hate is a strong word. Why do you have to hate them for having a different viewpoint than you do? I didn't agree with the war in Iraq. However, I never came out and said "I hate everyone who agrees with the war in Iraq!" because it's a very ignorant statement to make. Hating an entire group of people for ANY reason is wrong, in my book. -Duo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
