LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted July 1, 2003 RVD did a good job SELLING the leg punishment at the time. Screaming in pain, clutching the leg, he did a good job at it. But afterwards, there was really no reason to continue. It interferes with nearly all of RVD's moves, the Five-Star planned, the Van-Daminator planned, and the other kicks he had to do to keep taking out Evolution. The leg injury didn't even factor into the finish, and would have just gotten in the way of everything else that needed to be done. It's not the fault of RVD that such spotty selling was done. Either the bookers need to learn that RVD's leg should not be worked on, unless an alternate plan is devised. You can't take out his legs, and then expect him to continue a whole plot of offense - although his legs are his strongest point ! Sure, he could have hobbled around a little more, but by the end of the match, did it even matter ? He lost by a DDT. Not a Figure-Four or the Indian Deathlock of Doom. You gotta be friggin kidding me saying its not RVD's fault for NOT selling the leg. It doesnt matter what his damn moveset is. When your leg is worked on you HAVE to sell it. It IS his fault that he's too one dimensional to sell a body part injury. You're saying that it's not his fault that he did dropkicks, chase after Flair, several top rope moves, kicks AFTER having the leg worked on. Thats just being sloppy and lazy on his part and thats why he'll never be a world champion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted July 1, 2003 RVD took a crowd that was dead for at least an hour, and chanting "Boring" while Spike took a complete backbody-drop bump over the top rope, and brought them into this match. This should completely justify a pushing of Rob Van Dam. The people love him so I don't see why he can't be pushed more. He just needs to brush up on his selling a little bit. And, in addition, fuck Scott Keith. The match was way over *1/2 and frankly, I don't know what friggin match he was watching. I would have given it at least ***, and it was one of the best Raw Main Events in a while. But what the hell do I know ? I'm not eating a box of Devil Dogs and typing on a keyboard that my fingers are too fat for. You're the man, Keith ! Are you fucking kidding me?? SK OVERRATED it. I was dozing off till the end Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Just call me Dan Report post Posted July 1, 2003 Yes Eric took that like a champ, and I hope he's alright, and Jazz too, any news on her? Again, this smark stereotyping because of the bad selling is ludicrous. I enjoyed the match, but calling it a classic or that good isn't justified. I had fun with it, as did many others, but I think we can all agree that the selling of the main focus in a match has to take place for something to be effective. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CanadianChick Report post Posted July 1, 2003 The match was by no means a classic, but I thought it was better than *1/2. The selling sucked, but the match was fun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted July 1, 2003 THEY DID NOTHING FOR 15 MINUTES. That doesn't= *1/2 to me Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conspiracy_Victim 0 Report post Posted July 1, 2003 Dear Vincent Kennedy McMahon, I know you and your employees paint internet fans, such as myself, as the scourge of wrestling, and possibly even civilization itself. However, I would like to make one final attempt to save you from yourself in regards to tonight's episode of RAW. Tonight I saw HHH wrestle RVD in the main event. I didn't see any of the RAW previous to the main event, and didn't even know who HHH was wrestling before the entrance. During the match, RVD hit a variety of moves on HHH in an attempt to portray the "back and forth" action popular in wrestling. However, at NO TIME during the night did I EVER think RVD would beat HHH. In fact, unless it's a tag match, I NEVER think HHH will lose. And worse yet, judging by the crowd's reaction up until the DQ rule was lifted, no one in the arean thought RVD would win either! A champion is supposed to be constantly on guard for challengers who are a threat to his title. And yet RAW has rapidly become "HHH and some other guys" with no signs of a reversal. Mr. McMahon I beg you to please realize that HHH as champ has run it's course, at least for now. Buyrates stink, ratings have fallen, and fan interest seems to be on the wane. Now is the time to build someone else up. I've seen you do it before, and I have faith that you can do it again. Have HHH drop the title and give SOMEONE a chance to succeed. Sincerely, Conspiracy Victim OK so it's not the greatest in regards to grammar, but this popped into my head immediately after the ending of RAW tonight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Just call me Dan Report post Posted July 1, 2003 I can agree there. Star ratings are disposable until you get around *** anyway, IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest KingOfOldSchool Report post Posted July 1, 2003 RVD did a good job SELLING the leg punishment at the time. Screaming in pain, clutching the leg, he did a good job at it. But afterwards, there was really no reason to continue. It interferes with nearly all of RVD's moves, the Five-Star planned, the Van-Daminator planned, and the other kicks he had to do to keep taking out Evolution. The leg injury didn't even factor into the finish, and would have just gotten in the way of everything else that needed to be done. It's not the fault of RVD that such spotty selling was done. Either the bookers need to learn that RVD's leg should not be worked on, unless an alternate plan is devised. You can't take out his legs, and then expect him to continue a whole plot of offense - although his legs are his strongest point ! Bullshit. You can still sell extensive leg damage while utilizing your repertoire, even if that moveset includes lots of flipping around. See: Mysterio v. Matt Hardy from a couple weeks ago on SmackDown. Hardy worked on the leg throughout the match, and Mysterio sold it while still being able to perform his moves. You do NOT need to cut out those moves altogether in order to sell. But at the same time, you shouldn't be able to do them at the same pace or with as little damage as before. RVD didn't do anything at all in order to sell the damage, aside from short term selling (grabbing his leg, groaning, etc). He didn't display any long term damage at all and was back to flipping around two minutes later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest KoR Fungus Report post Posted July 1, 2003 I agree that the finish was totally fine. Three on one, RVD fought them off for five minutes, got a bunch of near falls and then jobbed to a beltshot and a DDT on steel, there's nothing wrong with any of that. RVD came out looking really good. Be happy that he didn't job to the Delayed Pedigree Of Death like poor Booker at WMX-9. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Just call me Dan Report post Posted July 1, 2003 RVD looked stronger tonight than anyone has since Nash getting the continuous pins and Shawn actually winning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted July 1, 2003 I'm just mighty pissed that HHH won't let interference itself eer win the match. It's always the idiot falling to a legal move from the mighty HHH. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AndrewTS Report post Posted July 1, 2003 Considering how much help HHH needed, it was fine...but... The fact is, they aren't going to do anything with RVD. He's not going to have a PPV rematch, he's not winning the belt, apparently he's only going to face Kane at the PPV. So what was the freakin' point? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wrestlingbs Report post Posted July 1, 2003 I think HHH booked the match just to remind us of why we hate the guy. Yeah, I got to admit, RVD kind of no sold the leg at the end. But it was definitely better than *1/2 stars. I liked the match until the end. You know the worst part out of all this is that it means nothing, since you know HHH is facing either Goldberg or Foley at SS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ManKinnd Report post Posted July 1, 2003 I thought the match was just fine. RVD was on total offense save the leg work in the middle, and the crowd got really into it. And are some people really complaining about a DDT finish? Why was it OK for the ENTIRE Raven/Dreamer feud but not tonight, when it was on steel and following a beltshot? Ugh. The selling was non-existant on the leg, no psychology at all, but for tonight I forgot about it and had fun in the main event. And that's what matters to me. RVD looked like a total star out there with Trips, and after all, isn't that what we all wanted? People to look credible against HHH? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Human Fly Report post Posted July 1, 2003 The fact is, they aren't going to do anything with RVD. He's not going to have a PPV rematch, he's not winning the belt, apparently he's only going to face Kane at the PPV. So what was the freakin' point? Kane v. HHH at Summerslam and RVD v. Orton at Summerslam, or RVD v. Flair at Summerslam (or else maybe RVD is going to be Hurricane's tag partner). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest godthedog Report post Posted July 1, 2003 RVD did a good job SELLING the leg punishment at the time. Screaming in pain, clutching the leg, he did a good job at it. this takes NO SKILL AT ALL. NONE. it requires no effort to scream in pain and clutch at a body part while it's in a submission hold. if you put ME in a match with tripe h, and he put me in an inverted indian deathlock, I would be able to do this. commending somebody for this is like commending somebody for remembering to put his hands in the right place for a lock-up: it's expected. But afterwards, there was really no reason to continue.It interferes with nearly all of RVD's moves, the Five-Star planned, the Van-Daminator planned, and the other kicks he had to do to keep taking out Evolution. The leg injury didn't even factor into the finish, and would have just gotten in the way of everything else that needed to be done. well, shit...bret got his knee worked on in his wrestlemania match with owen, but it didn't figure into the finish, so i guess he had no reason to keep selling the knee after owen stopped working it. all those little things, like clutching at his leg after the second-rope elbow...not really necessary. he could have at least made some effort to sell...grab his knee after doing a kick, let the leg buckle while he's running across the ring or something...at least done SOMETHING to let the crowd know that his leg had been worked on. selling the leg can be done without interfering with the flow of a match. in fact, it can ADD to the drama...in the words of vince mcmahon, having it so that rvd "with every move does more damage to the knee." unless you're pre-2000 undertaker, it is NEVER okay to suddenly stop selling a body part. EVER. it looks bad. It's not the fault of RVD that such spotty selling was done. since rvd was doing the spotty selling, i think it's pretty fair to blame him. Sure, he could have hobbled around a little more, but by the end of the match, did it even matter ? YES, IT MATTERED, because when you stop selling a body part suddenly, it looks like shit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AlwaysPissedOff Report post Posted July 1, 2003 Didn't they do RVD/Flair at No Mercy last year? I *really* don't want to see that rematch ever again, dammit... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted July 1, 2003 And are some people really complaining about a DDT finish? Why was it OK for the ENTIRE Raven/Dreamer feud but not tonight The DDT hasn't been a match ending move in the WWF for over 10 years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted July 1, 2003 Rob Van Swampass wasn't going to win, don't kid yourself. Sure, he no-sold the leg, but HHH was just doing like he did all the time, and exposing him deliberately. Not that I actually give a crap about RVD anymore. Eh, whatever. He sold the leg a lot in the match. He no-sold it a couple of times (running, kicking) but that can be explained away as "working through the pain." But he never stopped fully selling it. I thought the match was great, myself. I would have preferred an RVD win, but that isn't going to happen. To Hunter's credit, he looked good tonight. If only he would stop playing politics... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted July 1, 2003 He no-sold it a couple of times (running, kicking) ... Otherwise known as the last five minutes of the match Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted July 1, 2003 His total nonselling was disgusting to see Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Just call me Dan Report post Posted July 1, 2003 You're kidding yourself if you call his "selling" acceptable. He's not a bad worker, he doesn't suck, but he HAS to work on his selling and he can put on some great matches. This argument has run its course and if you are sticking to your guns that RVD sold well, so be it. Remember this when you finally see some even more brutally obvious no selling and wish to complain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted July 1, 2003 His total nonselling was disgusting to see Again, I have to disagree. I think he sold the leg a lot. IMO, RVD is better at selling than people make him out to be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Just call me Dan Report post Posted July 1, 2003 Let it die, all you are presenting here is "Hey, he did sell!" Following will be people saying "No, he didn't sell!" This matter has been analyzed. I'd say use the older posts as a reference, and gather more facts to support your point after the next RVD match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted July 1, 2003 I think it's funny how some people said that it was HHH's fault because he was DELIBERATELY exposing his weakness by working on the leg and he shouldnt have done that. That's such a stupid statement. Vince : I want noone working on any of RVD's body parts because he can't sell that well. So no working on limbs from now on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted July 1, 2003 Let it die, all you are presenting here is "Hey, he did sell!" Following will be people saying "No, he didn't sell!" This matter has been analyzed. I'd say use the older posts as a reference, and gather more facts to support your point after the next RVD match. Alright, I shall do just that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Czech Republic Report post Posted July 1, 2003 tripe h was that intentional? Either way, good work Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted July 1, 2003 His total nonselling was disgusting to see Again, I have to disagree. I think he sold the leg a lot. IMO, RVD is better at selling than people make him out to be. I would like someone to explain to me how he sold A LOT tonight and was better than most give him credit for. When you're jumping around and throwing kicks and top rope moves and chasing people without the slightest limp right after they worked on your leg for 5 minutes, that is NOT proper selling. It's noselling and make EVERYONE look bad. And i dont wanna hear "he sold while his leg was getting worked on" because a damn 7 year old can sell a bodypart that is getting worked on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted July 1, 2003 His total nonselling was disgusting to see Again, I have to disagree. I think he sold the leg a lot. IMO, RVD is better at selling than people make him out to be. When? He was chasing Flair within two minutes, and that was the end of the token selling Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jester Report post Posted July 1, 2003 I liked the match. I guess I should be spanked and shoved into a dark room where I could get eaten by a grue. *Marks out for Infocom game reference* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
