Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 5, 2003 Savage vs. Steamboat WM 3 was scripted yet that doesn't stop most from calling it a classic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smell the ratings!!! Report post Posted July 5, 2003 I wondered how this got to be 2 pages... Anyway, people hate DDP for the same reason they (ok, I) hate Brock. Sure he may have talent, busts his ass, is a nice guy, but when you get the motherfucking push from hell, some people are just going to hate you forever, even if it works and you get over. Page was just an average wrestler who was a bigger deal than better wrestlers because he had a bottle rocket named Bischoff shoved up his ass. edit: as for the scripting matches argument, look at it this way. Page fought guys like Nash, Hogan, Goldberg, Big Show. Imagine how godawful those would have been if he didn't plan out every little step. That was one of the few things I liked about him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cue_meanie Report post Posted July 5, 2003 Some of you compared him to HHH. Not true infact after seeing this I checked and HHH is only refrenced once with regards to Flair give him a verbal blowjob every second of the day, CANT THE HHH HATE stop for one thread where we bash/celebrate a completely different wrestler....Trips Sucks we all got it...thats been done...go start a HHH topic but don't try to stop the DDP hate by bringing on HHH hate. And reading first hand accounts by Foley will give you no incite as to how Hogan did anything because Foley was there for 2 months while Hogan was there...and Foley was inactive for most of that time. back on topic It wasn't so much that DDP scripted matches it was that HE made perfectly good wrestlers follow his scripts (I'm looking at Benoit) and would not allow them to stray from the plan... to me thats a poor worker because if you see the crowd responding to something you can give and take a lot, however when its COMPLETELY scripted it just doesn't do it for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620 Report post Posted July 5, 2003 The fact that he scripted matches really doesn't matter. They are all scripted to a degree. But my argument is that he isn't a HHH, he just barely a few spots above Goldberg as far as having it given to him. DDP knew the right people and played the right cards. I don't fault him for that, but he'll never be anymore then a very entertaining mid-carder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted July 5, 2003 How do you know that he MADE Benoit stay true to the script? Did you see something that made you realise it? I saw it in passing, and I like to take every opportunity that passes to bash not HHH currently, but rather HHH in 2000. It's the new thing, everyone still loved him than. So it's fresh. I also bashed Flair, which rarely happens, as you seem to be hailing him "as one of, if not THE greatest of all time". What have you heard about Hogan using pull backstage that Flair didn't do himself? I meant that Flair did shit as well, and it was worse because he had the balls to let Austin and Foley go, two guys that would kick their ass in the ratings for years to come. Hogan at least kickstarted their first reign of dominance ever. Whatever he did worked. Flair made himself the main focus of the biggest show of the year, which also happened to be the final nail in the coffin. He's just as bad, if not worse than Hogan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cue_meanie Report post Posted July 5, 2003 How do you know that he MADE Benoit stay true to the script? Did you see something that made you realise it - Because in the Raven shoot....he flat out says this "DDP has a script like a movie and you are NOT ALLOWED to stray from the script" not an exact quote but i mean i'm taking that at face value I saw it in passing, and I like to take every opportunity that passes to bash not HHH currently, but rather HHH in 2000. It's the new thing, everyone still loved him than. So it's fresh. I also bashed Flair, which rarely happens, as you seem to be hailing him "as one of, if not THE greatest of all time" --I am not a big Ric Flair mark he's definately not MY favourite wrestler but when it comes down to top wrestlers of all time to not include Ric Flair is just lunacy, but this still isn't a HHH thread What have you heard about Hogan using pull backstage that Flair didn't do himself? I meant that Flair did shit as well, and it was worse because he had the balls to let Austin and Foley go, two guys that would kick their ass in the ratings for years to come. Hogan at least kickstarted their first reign of dominance ever. Whatever he did worked. Flair made himself the main focus of the biggest show of the year, which also happened to be the final nail in the coffin. He's just as bad, if not worse than Hogan. --Pretty much what I've heard in wrestling is that if you don't use pull backstage you'll never be a main eventer, i'm sure there is exceptions but it always seems to come with the territory of being a main guy. But that wasn't my argument, my point is that Ric Flair as a legend is well within his rights to call DDP a nobody..just because you're on Jay Leno doesn't mean you're a somebody, in 10 years who will remember the "wassup" guys...NOBODY, but they were on Jay Leno. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheGame2705 Report post Posted July 5, 2003 Raven's very full of himself and he's one to talk as he's had problems with TNA's creative because it wasn't going his way Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted July 5, 2003 Forget everything else about him as a worker, like I said. We all have different opinions, but that should NOT be the topic of discussion here. What is being debated is whether or not Flair was in line for calling DDP a nobody. It doesn't matter whether you agree, because that doesn't mean that it's justified. Bottom line, Flair was being a dick for personally insulting Page. What did Page do in public that bothered Flair? Why does Flair have so much bitter resentment towards him? Why does Flair need to single him out of all people? What did he say about Bischoff again? From what I can recall, DDP has never done anything personal to Flair. Talk about whom you like more all you want, but that's irrelevant here. DDP accepted less money to wrestle and still was buried, yet didn't care because he was and is such a mark for the business. He left and is probably living under his own terms right now. Flair pisses on his legacy every week by doing stupid shit and putting over Trips HUGE, as being better than him even. He has no integrity, since he does stuff that's demeaning for a paycheck. Who seems to have more self-respect? I think we know who the REAL nobody is.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 5, 2003 Just because Flair is a legend doesn't make his judgement void of bias. Flair hates bischoff, DDP was bischoffs buddy. That's ingredients for a nice big case of bias. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620 Report post Posted July 5, 2003 What is being debated is whether or not Flair was in line for calling DDP a nobody. Yes. Because with all the other things debated here, DDP is a nobody now. He wasn't in the 90's, but he is now. And he won't be rememered in conversations about great wrestlers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cue_meanie Report post Posted July 5, 2003 Raven's very full of himself and he's one to talk as he's had problems with TNA's creative because it wasn't going his way --RAVEN has nothing to do with this he wasn't being ANTI-DDP. He was just saying things how they were...then I who is ANTI-DDP used what he said to explain my stance. And Raven's problems with TNA do not stop him from talking about DDP...Where did that come from? It has absolutley nothing to do with scripting matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted July 5, 2003 What is being debated is whether or not Flair was in line for calling DDP a nobody. Yes. Because with all the other things debated here, DDP is a nobody now. He wasn't in the 90's, but he is now. And he won't be rememered in conversations about great wrestlers. No. People will always remember DDP and it seems that Flair is implying that DDP was a nobody for the World title. It's obvious this is over Flair's hatred for Eazy E Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cue_meanie Report post Posted July 5, 2003 I think he didn't like Jobbing to him as was stated Bishoff may have been involved but who knows really...all we know is that Ric Flair thinks that DDP is a "nobody" well thats his right. And as one of the top performers in his business i believe his opinion deserves more respect than some fan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted July 5, 2003 But when Flair may have obvious bias towards DDP- you have to take his opinion into consideration Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620 Report post Posted July 5, 2003 What is being debated is whether or not Flair was in line for calling DDP a nobody. Yes. Because with all the other things debated here, DDP is a nobody now. He wasn't in the 90's, but he is now. And he won't be rememered in conversations about great wrestlers. No. People will always remember DDP and it seems that Flair is implying that DDP was a nobody for the World title. It's obvious this is over Flair's hatred for Eazy E Actually, I agree with you bob. But if it wasn't for that hate, Flair probably wouldn't be mentioning his name in the first place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 5, 2003 In conversations of WCW in the mid-late 90's (which was one of the hottest periods in wrestling) DDP's name will come up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cue_meanie Report post Posted July 5, 2003 So will the HUMMER...doesn't mean its a good thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 5, 2003 I don't think Flair's opinion on DDP should carry much weight considering the involvement of Bischoff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted July 5, 2003 Flair jobbed to Jeff Jarrett- He should have no problem putting DDP over Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted July 5, 2003 Again, it doesn't matter whether you think he's a nobody, it's about whether Flair was right for calling him one. Even if it were true (which it isn't), that shit still shouldn't fly. If Troy Aikman called Jim Kelly a nobody, everyone would be all over him about having no class, and rightfully so. Whether you think it's true or not, it still makes Flair look like a bitch for having to state it. Saying it makes him look extremely bitter and shallow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 5, 2003 Doesn't make DDP a nobody. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted July 5, 2003 I just think it's funny that Flair jobbed to Jeff Jarrett and DDP- and he calls DDP the nobody. DDP never had to book a whole promotion around himself to be over Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cue_meanie Report post Posted July 5, 2003 If Troy Aikman called Jim Kelly a nobody, everyone would be all over him about having no class, and rightfully so. Whether you think it's true or not, it still makes Flair look like a bitch for having to state it. Saying it makes him look extremely bitter and shallow. -If Troy Aikman fully believed that, and was writing a BOOK because thats what this was about a section in HIS book then hells yeah he can say that. If you are writing a book you are justified to say your own thoughts and feelings...No body gave Foley a hard time for his opinions on Flair....but now Flair can't have an opinion on DDP.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Tino Standard Report post Posted July 5, 2003 Flair dislikes Bischoff. DDP is friends with Bischoff. Flair dislikes DDP because of his friendship with nemesis Bischoff. I think those are all pretty accurate, but it goes deeper than that. Think about it this way: There has been plenty of comparisons between DDP vs. other guys. You want a real comparison? How about DDP vs. Rico Constantino. Think about it. Both broke into the business at a relatively late age and had to work their way up the ladder. DDP is buddies with the boss and he ends up a 3-time champion. Rico, who has considerably more talent and plenty of charisma, gets jackshit. So yeah, when somebody gets a nice cushy spot on the top of the roster after coming to the party pretty late, you can see why a longtime veteran might resent that. ESPECIALLY if the guy putting the 'late-bloomer' at the top is your No. 1 enemy to begin with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted July 5, 2003 I wouldn't say Rico is more talented then DDP. That's stretching it a bit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AlwaysPissedOff Report post Posted July 5, 2003 DDP never had to book a whole promotion around himself to be over Ouch... that's pretty harsh, and I agree too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cue_meanie Report post Posted July 5, 2003 So in your mind DDP > Jarrett...makes him a somebody... where does Jarrett fit in this equation at all....sure its funny once but you used the same jarrett joke TWICE in like 30 seconds.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620 Report post Posted July 5, 2003 I just think it's funny that Flair jobbed to Jeff Jarrett and DDP- and he calls DDP the nobody. DDP never had to book a whole promotion around himself to be over How does Flair jobbing to Jarret pertain to this discussion? All that shows is that Flair has always been willing to put over younger talent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted July 5, 2003 Because people brought up that maybe Flair was bitter at jobbing the title to Page. I used Jarrett as an example of why Flair shouldn't be bitter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cue_meanie Report post Posted July 5, 2003 I wouldn't say Rico is more talented then DDP. That's stretching it a bit You wouldn't, He obviously does, ...how does you saying no change anything. It's his opinion that he is totally justified to make as was FLAIR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
