Brethart.com statement re: Shawn's comments on Raw

[Guest Big McLargeHuge]

See the problem with the Montreal argument is almost everyone is biased. It's pretty obvious who the anti-Shawn and anti-Bret people are. Especially when they're posts are completely one sided.

 

This argument will never die.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Seriously, people, PLEASE know what you're talking about before you talk about it... PLEASE... go read the observer article on it in Keiths FAQ..

 

To say that McMahon "had no other option" or was "backed into a corner" is just ridiculous. McMahon _wanted_ to screw Bret. He _wanted_ controversy. That's what the Attitude era was all about.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Its funny how this had to happen. Because Vince was simply afraid to see Bret go on Nitro with the WWF Championship. That's why the screwjob happened. Along with the fact that Vince backed out of the 20-year contract he made with Bret and Vince WANTED Bret to go to WCW. Bret just wanted to go out on the sunset. Bret and Vince agreed to have the Survivor Series match a DQ finish and for Bret to go on RAW the next night and forfeit the title. So basically, Vince didn't trust Bret.

 

Bret busted his ass for 14 years and hardly missed a show. He was arguable the best technical wrestler in the world and was a great role model for children, another reason why he was leaving, he didn't like the direction WWE was going with adding adult content.

 

Shawn on the other hand was an almost as good wrestler as Bret, but was an arrogant prick. Faking / Exaggerating his knee injury simply because he had too much of an ego to job back to Bret. Hell, even I don't buy his whole born-again Christian ordeal. Shawn Michaels has a history of not putting people over. Just like HHH. Fuck the Klique.

 

As the one guy was saying, all three men had egos, but with Bret working so long, you'd figure it was probably the least Vince could have done for Bret (re: title forfeiture). Which is strange because if not for the Montreal screwjob, we wouldn't have gotten the heel Vince McMahon character (although most would say that's his real self) and the WWF Attitude era wouldn't have happened.

[KTID 0]

Seriously, people, PLEASE know what you're talking about before you talk about it... PLEASE... go read the observer article on it in Keiths FAQ..

 

 

I simply cannot navigate that site, can someone post a link please.

[Guest Big McLargeHuge]

I've never seen the FAQ at 411mania. It used to be on the Smarks. No clue where it is now.

[Guest Shanghai Kid]

For anybody that wants to brush up on their Montreal history, go to this link and read. Don't be fooled by the fact that it's at Bret Hart.com, everything sounds legit and it's not given from Bret's point of view or in Bret's favor. It's the one from Observer, written by Meltzer.

 

 

www.brethart.com/montreal/facts.asp

 

BTW, it's arguable that Shawn was a better wrestler than Bret.

[Guest JMA]

BTW, it's arguable that Shawn was a better wrestler than Bret.

It could be argued. But I think most would agree Bret was the better PURE wrestler. Shawn was certainly more exciting a lot of times. I used to be a big HBK mark, as well as a big Bret Hart mark.

[Guest JMFabiano524]

Guys, Bret WAS over it. Read his last 3 or 4 columns he was talking about possibly making an appearence or two for the WWF. THEY were the ones who brought it up and are ONCE AGAIN dragging Bret's name through the mud. Bret was merely responding to a stupid ass segment on RAW that dropped his name several time, I'd hope he'd have something to say. Bret did say some harsh thing after two or three years but that was more hatered about the company that accidently KILLED his brother not about being screwed.

Yeah, a lot of you sound like you have too much faith in human nature. The fact is, Bret is human, and when people have been wronged of course they may not be quick to forgive, maybe never even! I have too much first hand experience about people holding grudges myself. And for things lesser than the betrayal and loss that the WWF/E made Bret feel. And yes, I know what happened to Owen was an accident. Still, if the stories about him being punished for not having an affair with Debra (storyline) are true, I can see how they'd seem just a tad liable.

 

I personally think it says something that Bret was actually talking to Vince. So maybe he is more forgiving than some of us think. Certainly more than I am! And I admit to having my suspicions about Shawn. When he gives someone who's not older than him and not one of his friends the rub, then we'll talk.

 

And I also agree about the comment someone made about seeing an old hero end things on a sour note. It just seems too often that the bad things happen to the good people while the bad people get off scot-free.

[Guest Shanghai Kid]

Once again, Shawns character has nothing to do with his religious beliefs. Whether he puts over young talent or not is not going to affect him praying to God.

[chaosrage 0]

Bret offered to job the title ANYONE! but Shawn. Bret didn't show up one day saying "Fuck you Vince, I'm going to WCW and I'm taking the title with me". Vince was pretty much forcing him out of the company... and gave him the top title while doing it.

 

I've never read anywhere at anytime that Bret wanted to leave the company. He would've taken less money just to stay.

 

I know, I didn't say he wanted to leave. I said he wanted to forfeit the title so he could leave undefeated. That was the plan.

 

No one looked more credible than Bret in 97. He won all the time, including when he was heel, the only time he ever lost was when he got screwed. You'd think that would be enough for him. I mean, how could you have a better year than that? For all the times Canada won, I can't see what the big deal is about letting Canada down ONE time and losing to HBK on his way out. USA was let down a whole bunch of times.

 

Yes, he agreed to job to other wrestlers, but nobody else was ready or it wouldn't make sense for anyone else to be champion at the time. Vince shouldn't have to rearrange his program because one of his workers holds a grudge against another one of his workers anyway.

 

Vince doesn't owe him anything. He did as much for Bret as Bret did for him. In Bret's case, there wasn't much at stake at all. Just Bret's pride and ego. With McMahon, it was his company that WCW was burying. So I think he was well within his rights to do whatever he felt he had to do.

 

It's not bias either. If Shawn had forfeited the title after he won it in October, I would have hated him for it.

 

Vince must be an idiot if he decides to stick his top title on someone he's trying to force out of his own company. Pitting your heel champ in his final match against another heel? If that doesn't speak volumes about this guy's lack of common sense, I don't know what does.

 

Bret wasn't a heel in Canada. It was only Michaels that was a heel everywhere. It was all part of the whole "shades of grey" thing, something that made 97 one of the best years ever. Of course if this was happening now, they would try to double turn them and get Bret to say Canada sucks or something.

 

And I don't think he was trying to force Bret out of his company yet. A lot can happen in two months. The Canada/USA angle lost steam quickly. Bret Hart was the champion but he wasn't even main eventing PPVs. I guess Vince didn't think Bret was worth the money he was paying him anymore. According to the documentary, Bret knew it would happen the day Shawn turned heel. He knew he would take his spot. That's why he was all depressed when he won the title.

 

I've come to the conclusion that Vince got incredibly lucky with the Mr. McMahon/Austin fued.

 

Meh, McMahon/Austin was just the icing on the cake. Ratings were slowing going up for almost a year.

[Guest Shanghai Kid]

Sad to say, once Bret left and the focus of the show shifted to Austin and DX, that's when the ratings started to go up. That's when the WWF started to get on the rise.

[chaosrage 0]

Bret was better at scientific wrestling. But Shawn was more well rounded.

[chaosrage 0]

Yeah, as sad as it is, it kinda makes Vince look like he knew he was talking about. Bret wasn't worth the money he was paying him.

 

Actually, according to that site, Vince didnt throw him out. He told him he couldn't afford what he was paying him, and let him look around to see what WCW offered. Then, he came back to Bret and told them there was a change and now they could afford it. But a day later, Bischoff offered a $3 million deal, and Bret didn't like what WWF had planned out for him, so he took it.

[Guest bob_barron]

And I admit to having my suspicions about Shawn. When he gives someone who's not older than him and not one of his friends the rub, then we'll talk.

 

So because Shawn Michaels didn't do the job at Wrestlemania-

 

That means that he couldn't have found God and become a born again Christian? I didn't know the two things go hand in hand

[Guest The ChriZa]

So because Shawn Michaels didn't do the job at Wrestlemania-

 

That means that he couldn't have found God and become a born again Christian? I didn't know the two things go hand in hand

He probably just got the WM win because with HHH and Rocky going over Booker and Austin, they didn't want another heel victory to piss the crowd off. Who cares who won, it was the best match of the night, and would be the MOTY so far if it weren't for Angle/Benoit at the Rumble.

[Guest Choken One]

^ I don't think it matters as Jericho likely rathered put over Shawn anyways.

 

Montreal 1997 will be wrestling's JFK forever.

[Guest JMA]

I often wonder what things would be like today if Shawn hadn't "lost his smile" and had jobbed at WM.

[Guest Choken One]

Were they still gonna build it as FACE VS FACE?

 

It really would've drastically changed things as Bret and Austin never would've doubled turned...

 

Maybe Shawn did us a favor by not doing the match...

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

For anybody that wants to brush up on their Montreal history, go to this link and read. Don't be fooled by the fact that it's at Bret Hart.com, everything sounds legit and it's not given from Bret's point of view or in Bret's favor. It's the one from Observer, written by Meltzer.

 

 

www.brethart.com/montreal/facts.asp

 

BTW, it's arguable that Shawn was a better wrestler than Bret.

The fact that Bret has an entire section dedicated to Montreal on his website kind of cements what I'm saying here.

[Guest Shanghai Kid]

Ok, I just rewatched Wrestling with Shadows, and I have two questions.

 

First, if Shawn was one of the bad guys in the film, than what was the point of showing him playing with Bret's son before a show? Did it make sense for such an ego-driven asshole to be entertaining his enemies son?

 

Secondly, how much was HHH in on? Did he know everything that was going to happen?

[Guest The ChriZa]

Ok, I just rewatched Wrestling with Shadows, and I have two questions.

 

First, if Shawn was one of the bad guys in the film, than what was the point of showing him playing with Bret's son before a show? Did it make sense for such an ego-driven asshole to be entertaining his enemies son?

 

Secondly, how much was HHH in on? Did he know everything that was going to happen?

1. Just because you're not someone's friend doesn't mean you have to be a prick to his kid. Maybe he just genuinely likes kids.

 

2. I didn't use to think so, but if Shawn knew what was going on, HHH would too.

[Guest Choken One]

HHH had to be alert knowing he would have to protect Shawn...

 

They showed shawn playing with Bret's Kid as an...little way to go

 

"Look as this Asshole...Pretending he is my friend...when he planning to stab me in the back in two hours" type deal...

[Lil' Bitch 0]

I often wonder what things would be like today if Shawn hadn't "lost his smile"

 

More like lost his testicles.

[Guest JMA]

More like lost his testicles.

Oh, TAG.

[KTID 0]

I often wonder what things would be like today if Shawn hadn't "lost his smile"

 

More like lost his testicles.

 

When did he ever have any testicles?

[Guest jester]

Once again, Shawns character has nothing to do with his religious beliefs.

I disagree.

 

He has gone down to the ring wearing shirts with Biblical passages. He is projecting the image of a religious, moral person.

 

And he still brings up Montreal. This is an event he is supposedly not proud of, yet he will participate in promos bringing it up. He must also know that the constant rehashing of it hurts Bret Hart, and yet he still goes ahead with it. This suggests to me that his religous beliefs are self-serving.

 

And don't give me the "just following orders" line. Does this mean if Vince gave HBK a Satan-worshipping gimmick, he'd go through with it without objecting because it's just a character and he's just following orders?

[Guest FeArHaVoC]

Just to add...

 

You'd think by this time...EVENTULLY Shawn and Bret would bump into each other...

They were both at Hennig's funeral. Highly doubt they talked though.

[Guest Shanghai Kid]

Jester, the fact that he does wear religious shirts to the ring should tell you that he is serious about the religion. As far as hurting Bret's feelings by rehashing it, why should he have such concern for Bret's feelings? Their not friends, and Bret hates him no matter what. Also why would Vince tell him to be a Satan Worshiper? He's just doing what the writers wrote, he's not going to go out of his way to not do what the writers want just so he can preserve 'Bret's feelings'.

[Guest JMA]

Shanghai, don't take offense to this (because it is not intended as such) but you're starting to sound like an apologist. And if Shawn was the bigger man (which I doubt) he wouldn't intentionally try to piss Bret off.

[Guest bob_barron]

Shanghai, don't take offense to this (because it is not intended as such) but you're starting to sound like an apologist. And if Shawn was the bigger man (which I doubt) he wouldn't intentionally try to piss Bret off.

You could say the same thing about Bret Hart.