Guest Cancer Marney Report post Posted July 11, 2003 (edited) From this thread in CE. I wasn't attempting to disavow responsibility, for there is none to disavow. I have no personal responsibility to Robertson, Falwell, or anyone else I am not personally involved with. I'm not a part of his denomination, I tithe no funds to anything he is associated with, and very likely disagree with him/them on many things. Myself, nor my denomination have any responsibility to disavow. One of the first things to be learned as a Christian is that God is a personal God. He deals with you, and you with Him. The sins of others are not yours to carry with you. What the fundies do, the fundies do. What other Christians do, other Christians do. I wouldn't hold, say, JMA, personally responsible, or the liberal people group personally responsible, for the actions of one prominent figure. I find that stupid and childish. I don't deal with cliques. I deal with people. Individuals. Extremism and hardcore fundamentalism is not a product of the Grace that I know. So no, I am not personally responsible, nor are any of the Christians I am affiliated with, for the words, beliefs, and/or actions of any fundamentalist Christian figure. You, of course, have every right to attempt to apply it to me and/or all Christians if you want. Your judgement means nothing in the end. Jesus fucking Christ, I've finally had it with you. I can't fucking stand your constant in-your-face holier-than-thou gazing-skyward bullshit any longer. If <high-pitched mocking tone> there's only One Whose Judgement means Something in the End </high-pitched mocking tone> then why the fuck do you bother to bring up your goddamned religion in every fucking post and split hairs every time anyone criticises any aspect of Christianity? After all their "judgements" don't fucking MATTER, right? Oh, I forgot, because you're a Christian, and that means no one has the right to criticise anything you say or even if they do you DELIGHT in it because it means you're right and you're taking joy in your SUFFERING as your fucking LORD has commanded you to. Right? A bunch of words on a message board are the modern equivalent of being lashed until your guts are exposed and being nailed to a fucking cross. God. Your ilk makes me want to puke. Go regurgitate your idiotic dogma for someone else's benefit. I'm not interested. To hell with your fucking faith and how fucking PERSONAL it all is, I'm sick of you bringing it up all the time like Jesus invites you over to dinner and sends you flowers every weekend. I don't care if his cum is absolutely COATING your teeth RIGHT FUCKING NOW. As a sociological phenomenon Christianity bears the responsibility for each and every horror committed in its name, from the witch-hunts of the Inquisition to the racks and the iron maidens and the torture-chambers of "Innocent" VIII to the abortion clinic bombings to the snipers and the chanting bullies and the death threats, the collaboration with the Nazis, the slaughter of the Albigensians and Waldenses, the Children's Crusade and the Anglicans murdering the Protestants, and the Protestants murdering the Catholics and the Baptists and the Jesuits, and the Roman Catholics murdering everyone else. It is the personal responsibility of each and every Christian of any denomination or no denomination at all to make absolutely certain that NOTHING of the sort ever happens again. It is dangerously delusional, the absolute height of smug hypocrisy, the most offensive pinnacle of historical revisionism, to pretend for one second that none of these obscene atrocities had anything to do with the Bible or Christianity. No sect which claims Jesus as a saviour is exempt. None. You don't just have the blood of the Lamb on your hands, you have the blood of unnumbered millions. The sooner you and those like you acknowledge the facts the safer countless people now and in the future will be. Shit like this can be spun as long as you like. You can ALWAYS say that this person or that person isn't practicing "true Christianity." You know what? Unless you have a personal letter handwritten and signed by God I don't give a flying fuck. You have a responsibility to make sure no one hijacks your beliefs. You have a responsibility to disavow horrors undertaken in the name of your religion AT ALL TIMES just as loudly as those who preach from the rooftops, the charnel pits, the torture chambers that they're doing the work of God. You have an absolute and immitigable responsibility to everyone who has ever suffered at the hands of those who claimed your faith to any extent. No one with any official capacity in any church I've ever known denies this. Only shitheads like you. And do you know what kind of shit your moral blindness and self-satisfied idiocy causes? Do you? DO YOU? 9 fucking 11. Moslems the world over followed your route both before and after that day. The ones who weren't firing guns in the air and kissing pictures of Bin Laden. You're garbage, SP. Absolute garbage. Words can't express my contempt for your constant evasions and your hypocrisy. "Christ Alone?" You have far, far more in common with Pilate. To hell with you. To hell with you and everyone who thinks like you. You're filth, and I ran out of patience for your verbal tapdancing 22 months ago. Edited July 11, 2003 by Cancer Marney Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tyler McClelland Report post Posted July 11, 2003 Erm... Ow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MrRant Report post Posted July 11, 2003 Hey... I'm Roman Catholic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cancer Marney Report post Posted July 11, 2003 So am I. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dangerous A Report post Posted July 11, 2003 Well, you certainly picked the right forum for that rant. Is this leading up to a match in the OAOAST? If so, Marney just cut a ***** promo. That was vicious. :: reminds self not to piss Marney off anytime soon :: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted July 11, 2003 I didn't know that Rant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tyler McClelland Report post Posted July 11, 2003 As am I, but I don't think I disagree with her very much in that particular rant. However, what exactly can one do to shut up the high profile morons? It's not as if you can rip out their vocal cords and make sure the media doesn't pick up on these whores. I do agree with the responsibility factor, though; while I think Robertson is an utter loon, I do acknowledge that he loosely bases his rants on the faith itself. Thus, one must take responsibility for the actions of those who wear your banner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted July 11, 2003 That was one of the meanest, most hateful and vicious things I have ever read. Excellent work Marney Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted July 11, 2003 Just out of curiousity, Marney, most of your posts regarding religion seem to be ANTI-Christianity, so it kind of surprises me when you state that you're a Jesuit (I asked before). Since I don't know many who understand the "science compliments religion" belief, can you explain to me your belief system? It seems fascinating to be sure. I'm born a Roman Catholic, and while I still partake in many of the traditions, I'm pretty much a non-denominational Christian now. Just to point out Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cancer Marney Report post Posted July 11, 2003 I don't think science complements religion at all. I think they deal with vastly different things at a fundamental and irreconcilable level. Science doesn't have anything to say about morality (other than specious, half-assed Ayn Rand bullshit about ultimately justification of all things through self-interest) and religion doesn't have anything to say about scientific facts (other than specious, half-assed Downhome bullshit about the dinosaurs and Leviathan and Behemoth). Those who attempt to raise one above the other in their respective arenas denigrate both. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Danny Dubya v 2.0 Report post Posted July 11, 2003 Since I don't know many who understand the "science compliments religion" belief... Try explaining it to me. I believe simply that science is just an exact way of measuring reality and that any current scientific theory cannot rule out the existance of a greater will, nor does religion (unless you take some holy text that was written for/by ancient peoples' understanding and conditions by the letter) state that any of our current scientific theories are invalid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MrRant Report post Posted July 11, 2003 What do you mean religion doesn't have anything to say about science? RobStone begs to differ. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cancer Marney Report post Posted July 11, 2003 I believe simply that science is just an exact way of measuring reality and that any current scientific theory cannot rule out the existance of a greater will Indeed. Science can never invalidate the idea of an omnipotent deity (PH Gosse, Omphalos). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tyler McClelland Report post Posted July 11, 2003 What do you mean religion doesn't have anything to say about science? RobStone begs to differ. *resists temptation* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The ChriZa Report post Posted July 11, 2003 In the name of all that's Angle.... Wow. I think even I felt the heat from that one, and I'm an atheist. That was....wow. Marney, you frighten me. Please let me know in advance if I ever get on your bad side Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MrRant Report post Posted July 11, 2003 What do you mean religion doesn't have anything to say about science? RobStone begs to differ. *resists temptation* Don't resist. It calls to you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tyler McClelland Report post Posted July 11, 2003 Dammit, Rant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kotzenjunge Report post Posted July 11, 2003 (sits back in front of the big fan and next to the shit launcher) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted July 11, 2003 I don't feel like going through the trouble of explaining it at this hour, and odds are you'll all brush it off anyway, but it's generally the new "hip" thing for most Christians to believe today. But that's not what I meant, just a lack of a better word. I meant you're one of the few Christians whose beliefs seemingly contradict almost anything there is to say about traditional Christian morality. So that's why I was wondering why you seem to attack the core beliefs of Christianity in most of your posts, yet you go to mass every sunday where those beliefs are reinforced? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JHawk Report post Posted July 11, 2003 ::sits in the back of the room munching on some popcorn:: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cancer Marney Report post Posted July 11, 2003 The defining characteristic of Christianity is a belief in the power of sacrifice. Nothing I've ever said contradicts that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Danny Dubya v 2.0 Report post Posted July 11, 2003 So that's why I was wondering why you seem to attack the core beliefs of Christianity in most of your posts, yet you go to mass every sunday where those beliefs are reinforced? Maybe she never bothered to go through the trouble needed to be in the exact community of believers whose views are most similar to hers. I was baptised a roman catholic and really don't like the catholic church, but religion isn't a significant enough part of my life for me to switch religions. And a lot of people are the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tyler McClelland Report post Posted July 11, 2003 Or, perhaps she doesn't let the bible determine her exact beliefs. Perhaps she believes that while Christianity most closely matches her beliefs, she still differs on several points. Perhaps she isn't a sheep. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted July 11, 2003 Sacrifice eh? Can you delve further into that? So does that mean that you prefer the lifestyle of Christianity as opposed to it's issues regarding faith and a belief in Jesus Christ and all that? I assume that means that you don't find much of a difference between most religions, but just that the idea of the power of sacrifice has brought you to follow out Christianity. Correct me if I'm wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted July 11, 2003 Hey now, I'm not attacking her or anything, I'm just legit curious. It seems as if you guys are making me out to accuse her of not being a "real" Christian or something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tyler McClelland Report post Posted July 11, 2003 I find it simply stupid that people believe that those who don't believe every word of what they're hearing in church... aren't Christians. That's absurd; I, myself don't believe every word out of the priest's mouth, and anyone that does is simply naive. One has to do his own soul searching to determine what he or she truly believes; if you blindly follow every word of the bible, you're not giving it enough thought. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The ChriZa Report post Posted July 11, 2003 *purchases some Sour Patch Kids in the lobby and squeezes in between Kotzenjunge and JHawk* The second I saw this thread's title, I could smell flames and anger from a mile away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted July 11, 2003 I feel the same way. I'm just wondering what Marney believes, since she's the most intelligent Christian on the board, and probably more intelligent than most Christians I know in my own life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted July 11, 2003 I feel the same way. I'm just wondering what Marney believes, since she's the most intelligent Christian on the board, and probably more intelligent than most Christians I know in my own life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tyler McClelland Report post Posted July 11, 2003 Fair enough, I probably just read your original post wrong Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
