Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted July 13, 2003 Why does Billy Gunn get push after push after push? He fucking sucks ass as a singles guy. I don't get it. He won KOTR 99, the win didn't get him anywhere so that bombed. He had his feud with the Rock, that bombed again. He had his feud with Benoit, which also bombed. Benoit has a knack for making his opponents look good in a match, but not even Chris could help Billy out. Hell, they even had to stick Torrie with Billy to help get him over, which isn't working. IF it does come to (and I really hope it doesn't) the final match of Hardy / Gunn. Everybody can agree that Hardy > Gunn. I have a feeling Rhyno will cost Benoit his semi-final match while Tajiri will cost Eddie his match so we could have Rhyno / Benoit and Tajiri / Guerrero set up for Vengeance filling in the last 2 PPV card spots. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted July 13, 2003 His feud with the Rock was good...till Rock won (and rightfully so) and put Billy back in the midcard. Sticking him with Torrie doesn't get him any pop. She gets it all. The only way he's gonna get a reaction is when they split and Billy's mean to her. Billy just doesn't work without Road Dogg...and even now I doubt they'd get a big response. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 13, 2003 Eddie was over as a face before his match w. Cena. Babyface/Heel Turns:There’s no way Eddie Guerrero’s not a babyface after his performance tonight. The San Diego crowd was loving Eddie by the end of the night. It was tough not to after his match with Edge. -WWE SMACKDOWN! REPORT BY JEFF MAREK OF LIVE AUDIO WRESTLING e-mail: [email protected]. Date: Sept 26, 2002. Oh, and does Billy Gunn get push-after-push-after-push?? From: Austin Texas Height: 6'4" Weight: 268 pounds Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CanadianChick Report post Posted July 13, 2003 You don't think that??? Yeah, I see where you are coming from, it's not like the WWE has mishandled benoit and rhyno for the past couple of months ESPECIALLY regarding PPVs. But they ALWAYS create tension in a tag team/friendship before breaking it up. And the tension is always recent. I can't really remember a time a tag team randomly broke up with no tension build up (save for Eddie/Tajiri) But having a screw-job in the finals doesn't work. It puts the title in question and it takes the issue away from the winner. The last two tournaments had clean wins (Cena over Benoit, Angle/Benoit over Rey/Edge) so I suspect this one would too (I expect the finals to be Gunn vs. Hardy with Gunn going over). To have Rhyno turn on Benoit in the semis (a) sets up Matt Hardy to be the 'questionable' finalist (see, Dibiase WM 4) and (b) sets up a quick match at the PPV (to which they would expand on for SS). We are talking about a company that had a screw-job finish for the IC belt in a FRICKING BATTLE ROYAL, right? Okay, just checking. And if think that they wouldn't do a screw job finish to make the title look legit, why wouldn't they put the title on someone who can make the title look legit? And do you have enough faith that WWE will do a two PPV feud with Rhyno and Benoit. The same company that has an attention span of a 5 year old if it isn't about a world title? Because I sure as hell don't. Yeah, they could have two minorities fight over the US title... Or they could have Billy Gunn win it... *Jeopardy music plays* ... Yeah... A built in feud, or Billy Gunn? WWE doesn't even have to think to book a Tajiri/Eddie feud for the belt. It's a no-brainer. And a series with those two would give the division a jump start. Do you know how many chances Vince McMahon has given Billy Gunn?? You don't think that's because he's over, do you? Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt that Billy will get the belt. But, in Vince logic, the belt makes Gunn over, right? So that means the belt has to be over with the fans. That's where good, over wrestlers come in. They make the belt look good before it is given to Billy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted July 13, 2003 Eddie was over as a face before his match w. Cena. Babyface/Heel Turns:There’s no way Eddie Guerrero’s not a babyface after his performance tonight. The San Diego crowd was loving Eddie by the end of the night. It was tough not to after his match with Edge. They had heel Eddie feuding with face Edge at the time. Well, I'm sure people cheered him because of his talent and how good the match was. That's normal, but the fact remains that he was still a heel character-wise and that reaction was for that night only. He would still continue to be a heel along with Chavo for months through more promos / segments until the Cena incident because it was after that incident that Eddie was getting cheered (even though he was a heel, similar to what happened with Austin when he was getting over) for the following weeks. I'm sure of it. And Billy's pushes just never seem to die. I never had a problem with him in tag teams, he always been enjoying to watch in tag teams (Smoking Gunns/New Age Outlaws/him and Chuck before they got gay), but on his own, Billy is just shit both style-wise and he has his lame gimmick (which never got over with the crowd much), I don't why Vince doesn't see / refuses to believe this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 13, 2003 But they ALWAYS create tension in a tag team/friendship before breaking it up. And the tension is always recent. I can't really remember a time a tag team randomly broke up with no tension build up (save for Eddie/Tajiri) They've already established tension. This is the calm before the storm - they're ~SWERVING~ us into thinking all is right in the Benoit/Rhyno camp. We are talking about a company that had a screw-job finish for the IC belt in a FRICKING BATTLE ROYAL, right? Okay, just checking. Hey... I called that Anywho, that wasn't a tournament and their reasoning behind that was to put the focus on Bookers journey so when he wins the title it means something... it's horrible reasoning, yes, but it's theirs. The screw-job in the BR didn't take the focus off the belt like the Benoit/Rhyno deal would. And if think that they wouldn't do a screw job finish to make the title look legit, why wouldn't they put the title on someone who can make the title look legit? This is the WWE, this is Vince... They think that Billy Gunn IS legit. And do you have enough faith that WWE will do a two PPV feud with Rhyno and Benoit. The same company that has an attention span of a 5 year old if it isn't about a world title? Because I sure as hell don't. But you're the person who thinks that they will put Benoit and Eddie in the finals because they're "smart" or something... Besides, I think that the Benoit/Rhyno feud will probably _fail_ anyways, given the fact that the company has completely buried them over the past few months. So my 'faith' in them is pretty weak right now. Besides, "2 PPV's" is misleading as the feud would only last about one month as a whole. A built in feud, or Billy Gunn? WWE doesn't even have to think to book a Tajiri/Eddie feud for the belt. It's a no-brainer. And a series with those two would give the division a jump start. How is it a built in feud? Eddie turned on Tajiri cause Tajiri touched his car?? That's a pretty weak base for a feud. The _best_ thing to do is make the first feud a _title_ centric feud, because it helps give the title worth. And to the WWE, Billy Gunn = 10 Eddies and 20 Tajiris. Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt that Billy will get the belt. But, in Vince logic, the belt makes Gunn over, right? Actually, Billy Gunn is supposed to make the Belt over... Don't ask me why... Gunn, I guess, is a veteran and he's recently returned so he has the 'welcome back' pops and he has Torrie... I don't agree with it, I would rather not have this belt there _at all_, but that's the way it is... probably. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 13, 2003 They had heel Eddie feuding with face Edge at the time. Well, I'm sure people cheered him because of his talent and how good the match was. That's normal, but the fact remains that he was still a heel character-wise and that reaction was for that night only. My issue isn't with whether or not Eddie was a "face" charachter wise. My issue is with _the fans_ cheering Eddie thus making him a face. They *cheered* him at this event. This was a *natural* phenomenon. The fans _wanted_ to cheer Eddie, the Eddie love began here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CanadianChick Report post Posted July 13, 2003 They've already established tension. This is the calm before the storm - they're ~SWERVING~ us into thinking all is right in the Benoit/Rhyno camp. But there has been no obvious tension lately, and god knows that if there has to be tension, it has to be obvious. And when have they ever (recently) done a calm before the storm?\ Hey... I called that Anywho, that wasn't a tournament and their reasoning behind that was to put the focus on Bookers journey so when he wins the title it means something... it's horrible reasoning, yes, but it's theirs. The screw-job in the BR didn't take the focus off the belt like the Benoit/Rhyno deal would. It was the equivlent to a tournement though. And Christian always cheating and never winning made the belt look really weak, so yes, it did take away from the belt. And if they had Eddie in a big feud, the belt would do just fine. Actually, Billy Gunn is supposed to make the Belt over... Don't ask me why... Gunn, I guess, is a veteran and he's recently returned so he has the 'welcome back' pops and he has Torrie... I don't agree with it, I would rather not have this belt there _at all_, but that's the way it is... probably. Okay, I know WWE is stupid at times, but they are not THAT stupid. Gunn is getting shitty pops, and WWE knows it. Why else would they put Torrie with him? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cherry Blossom Viscount 0 Report post Posted July 13, 2003 RRR, he's saying the official face turn came after Cena cut the promo on him. Before that, Eddie was still getting pretty good heel heat. One match against Edge isn't a "phenomenon." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Austin3164life Report post Posted July 13, 2003 Actually, Billy Gunn is supposed to make the Belt over... Don't ask me why... Gunn, I guess, is a veteran and he's recently returned so he has the 'welcome back' pops and he has Torrie... I don't agree with it, I would rather not have this belt there _at all_, but that's the way it is... probably. This is a bit questionable, because when SD came to Rochester, Gunn was booed during his match with Cena. He even had Torrie as his enterage. People were mad when Gunn went over. I can still see Gunn winning because Vince has a thing for him, for some odd reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mulatto Heat Report post Posted July 13, 2003 It's funny how I don't see any apologizing here about Gunn anymore now that it's clear that he is not as over as his supporters/apologists would like everyone to believe. No no no no no, suck *it*. (points downward) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wildpegasus Report post Posted July 13, 2003 My take on things: The WWE themselves don't know who they want to put the belt on. I sense they're going with a Gunn/Hardy final with Tajiri and Rhyno respectively costing Eddie and Benoit their matches. This'll set up Eddie/Tajiri and Benoit/Rhyno at the PPV with the Benoit/Rhyno program ending at Summerslam in a "I quit match". I woul day Eddie is probably the third mostly likely to win the belt and Benoit the fourth right now. Eddie still has a good chance to win the US belt but the love for Billy Gunn just knows no bounds so I don't see Eddie taking it unless they're holding off Eddie vs Tajiri for Summerslam. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EdwardKnoxII Report post Posted July 13, 2003 His feud with the Rock was good...till Rock won (and rightfully so) and put Billy back in the midcard. Hey if it wasn't for that feud we wouldn't have gotten that great promo about Billy praying to God. God: Bob Billy: But, my name is Billy. God: IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR NAME IS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted July 13, 2003 My issue isn't with whether or not Eddie was a "face" charachter wise. My issue is with _the fans_ cheering Eddie thus making him a face. They *cheered* him at this event. This was a *natural* phenomenon. The fans _wanted_ to cheer Eddie, the Eddie love began here. Well, if you want to get technical about it, the WWE Eddie love started back in 2000 when he was with Chyna. What was I trying to say is that heel Eddie fought face Edge on the Smackdown right after Unforgiven (I missed the match, but I heard it was better than their matches at SummerSlam and Unforgiven combined!). Heel Eddie got cheered AFTER the match, but despite the crowd applause which was for THAT night, heel Eddie was still heel Eddie, would still be involved in heel promos and heel segments and would continue be heel until his match with Cena, it was after that this that made Eddie a face who got cheered for DURING his match (technically still a heel but still got cheered for JUST like Stone Cold) and would continued to cheered before, during, and after matches for the following months until the Tajiri / Eddie break-up. I mind you despite being a heel, Eddie is still being cheered for (like Matt Hardy). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYU 0 Report post Posted July 13, 2003 Come on. Just use logic with this. The WWE United States title is up for grabs....for the first time. Now.... Will Vince make the first-ever U.S. Champion a Mexican ? No, sorry Eddie. Will Vince make the first-ever U.S. Champion a Canadian ? No, sorry Benoit. So, we're down to Gunn and Hardy. Everyone knows that Vince has a hard-on for Billy Gunn so, just like everybody else, he's my pick to get the title. I really can't see Benoit or Guerrero getting the U.S. title at the end of the tournament. I mean, Vince even had the British Bulldog win the European title and become the first Euro Champion. I just don't think he would make a non-American the first-ever U.S. champion.....unless they were America-hating and we could have another cheap-heat scheme. But in this case, that isn't there. My pick - Either Gunn or Hardy. Most likely Gunn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CanadianChick Report post Posted July 13, 2003 Eddie is from El Paso, Texas, not Mexico. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Bad Guy Report post Posted July 13, 2003 I Think Billy Gunn will win the U.S. Title over Beniot In the Finals,Reason In the "vegeance spoiler*(i think thats the thread name) on Page [2] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CanadianChick Report post Posted July 13, 2003 Benoit and Gunn are both faces. That won't work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Bad Guy Report post Posted July 13, 2003 There Has Been Face Matches Before...Nothin New,Like I Said Beniot Vs Billy Gunn Will Be The "Final",Im Always Right Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cabbageboy Report post Posted July 13, 2003 Why is everyone so horribly afraid of Gunn winning this thing? I guarrantee it will go about as lousy as Christian's IC run, and he'll be quickly jobbed out to Eddie, Benoit, Rhino, or Matt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CanadianChick Report post Posted July 13, 2003 There Has Been Face Matches Before...Nothin New,Like I Said Beniot Vs Billy Gunn Will Be The "Final",Im Always Right Right, I'm sure you are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The ChriZa Report post Posted July 13, 2003 There Has Been Face Matches Before...Nothin New,Like I Said Beniot Vs Billy Gunn Will Be The "Final",Im Always Right Except when it comes to spelling, punctuation, capitolization, and grammar. What's a Beniot? Some kind of pastry? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted July 13, 2003 Beniot=The way SOME people actually spell their last name...True Story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted July 13, 2003 Come on. Just use logic with this. The WWE United States title is up for grabs....for the first time. Now.... Will Vince make the first-ever U.S. Champion a Mexican ? No, sorry Eddie. Will Vince make the first-ever U.S. Champion a Canadian ? No, sorry Benoit. This would only prove that McMahon is discriminate. If I remember correctly, though, Edge, a Canadian, was the last US Champion. Why is everyone so horribly afraid of Gunn winning this thing? I guarrantee it will go about as lousy as Christian's IC run, and he'll be quickly jobbed out to Eddie, Benoit, Rhino, or Matt. Because Gunn sucks dick as a singles wrestler and will leave a bad first impression for the US title revival. A sour taste in most fans' mouths. Anyway, face vs. face is rare nowadays so I'm expecting the final match to be either Benoit/Guerrero (<----which I am hoping for) or Hardy/Gunn. Benoit / Hardy is anybody's ball game. Now with Gunn / Guerrero, rumor has it Gunn is suppose to win this, but seeing as he is getting shit for pops, they might move along with Eddie's push since a.) he just broke up with Tajiri b.) turned heel, which gets attention and c.) gets more pops than Gunn can ever dream of getting nowadays. Now, this is variable IF WWE decides to go with interferences from Rhyno or Tajiri for the respective matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Slapnuts00 Report post Posted July 13, 2003 My gut tells me WWE will not have Gunn win the title. His negative reaction from the crowd is too much for WWE to ignore. Even the Torch said at first the idea was for Gunn to get the US title, but because of the poor reactions he's gotten they not so sure anymore. I think Hardy over Gunn is what will happen. Matt Hardy is quite over and well liked by management. Its the next obvious step in his main event climb. Eddie/Tajiri and Benoit/Rhyno fills out the card and makes it much better on paper too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The ChriZa Report post Posted July 13, 2003 And how many Europeans were European Champion? I can think of two...Bulldog and Regal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted July 13, 2003 HHH also if you count his French background. Matt Hardy and Eddie Guerrero...both former European Champions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0 Report post Posted July 13, 2003 The chave diatribe~! I think that WWE will put the belt on Hardy. Most people think that Benoit will lose to Hardy by Rhyno interference, yes? That means that Hardy has fluked his way into the final. Fast forward to Vengence. Hardy cheats to beat Gunn. And, on the way, him or Moore does something "heinous" to Torrie to get heel heat. This sets up a nice little feud with the vanilla face Billy trying to get the belt he deserves (which gets no crowd reaction) and get Hardy back for harming Torrie (which fans WILL give a shit about) Go to SummerSlam, Gunn beats Hardy in some sort of gimmick match, wins the belt (which has gained in profile after being held by Hardy), gets revenge for Torrie and gets more over. Kinda like what they did with the Booker/Christian feud, only better. However, I am not a WWE booker.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Slapnuts00 Report post Posted July 13, 2003 Dlo Brown and Al Snow were both from many parts of Europe! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted July 13, 2003 I still think D-Lo was the best European champion the WWE ever had. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
