Guest Goodear Report post Posted July 16, 2003 I think the WWE tag format sort of got set in stone once they decided that every team should use the double flapjack or double spinebuster. Then the one team used the doubvle spinebuster and called it the flapjack and the world EXPLODED! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted July 16, 2003 That's WWE stlye for you. Damn, how I miss the WCW Cruiserweight division. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted July 16, 2003 But who says that those guys wouldn't have gotten the tv time they did in a non-split WWE? Cause most of them didn't get tv time before the split. Granted he was let go, but Crash got no tv time. Dreamer got no time. Storm got no time. And plus is you had one big shitty angle (which they usually did) you got it twice a week Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 16, 2003 Dreamer gets time? Storm gets time? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted July 16, 2003 They get more time than they did before. Sure it equates to 2-5 minutes a week for Storm and the same every other week for Tommy, but that is more time than they would get in a nonseperated roster. You'd probably never see them except on Heat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted July 16, 2003 Dreamer gets time? Storm gets time? Both were on Raw the last 2 weeks in a row...which wouldn't of happened without the split. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 16, 2003 For about 3 minutes each in throw-away segments (cept for the god awful match with Maven, where Storm lost). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Stunt Granny Report post Posted July 16, 2003 Again, who has this brand extention really helped? If the extention was supposed to create new stars, where the fuck are they? If it's supposed to create or bring back a new/old audience, where the fuck are they? They aren't bringing any newer audience because the majority of people don't believe there is a difference between the brands and the current audience watches both shows anyways. The BE has helped a load of people. You think guys like Cena, Hardy V.1, Guerrero, Orton, Booker T, Christian, Mysterio, ect. would be ON TV if both shows were flooded with the same main eventers? no Bro, come with an argument next time, kay? uh......sure Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted July 16, 2003 For about 3 minutes each in throw-away segments (cept for the god awful match with Maven, where Storm lost). You missed the point again... which really can't be a surprise to anyone by now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted July 16, 2003 For about 3 minutes each in throw-away segments (cept for the god awful match with Maven, where Storm lost). So are you telling me you'd rather have HHH, Vince, Steph, and Big Show on both shows every single week? Cause that's what would happen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 16, 2003 Cena, Orton, Mysterio debuted AFTER the brand extention. Christian and Hardy were pushed as singles before the BE. Bookers push did not come because of the BE, it was because Booker - inspite of the horrible skits he was put in - got over on his own... and even then, they stuck him in a tag team which did get successful only to be broken up and have a short, crappy, title reign. The WWE had more success in pushing Angle, Benoit, and Jericho in 2000 than they have had with everyone after the brand extention save one Brock Lesnar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 16, 2003 What's the point? There were TONS of those 3 minute throw-away segments with various guys pre-brand extention. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted July 16, 2003 What part of "The Brand Extension allows more people to be on TV on a regular basis" aren't you quite grasping? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 16, 2003 Did we _watch_ Raw and Smackdown? Have we been watching _at all_ over the past few weeks?? Only *one* storyline gets full attention on each show - Kane/Austin/Bischoff on Raw, and Vince/Gowan/Steph/Sable on Smackdown. Everything else is totally second fiddle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted July 16, 2003 Did we _watch_ Raw and Smackdown? Have we been watching _at all_ over the past few weeks?? Only *one* storyline gets full attention on each show - Kane/Austin/Bischoff on Raw, and Vince/Gowan/Steph/Sable on Smackdown. Everything else is totally second fiddle. Well if the shows together then those two stories would take up just about all of both shows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 16, 2003 The "more people" and the "regular basis" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dangerous A Report post Posted July 16, 2003 What's the use of just seeing guys when the segments they are seen in suck? You don't need an extention to watch guys in shitty segments. Storm in 2-5 minute "boring" segments. That'll help his career. But at least he's on TV. Dreamer gets his once a month Raw bit and he gets his ass handed to him and it does nothing to put over who beat him. Wow, a star is born now. Cruisers curtain jerking. Great use there. A lot of money can be drawn from the cruisers taking a back seat to the Vince/Steph/Sable/Gowen storyline. But hey, thank God for the brand extention. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted July 16, 2003 But the brand split allows there to BE a second fiddle. Otherwise you'd just have two REALLY big fiddles and maybe they'd make time for Matt Hardy and the World Champions once a month. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 16, 2003 But that's the way it's always been. We'd have Rock vs. ____ and HHH vs. _____ and then either McMahon or Taker or Austin vs. _____. Then we have the lower guys all trying to get a piece. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dangerous A Report post Posted July 16, 2003 As RRR pointed out, they had no problem getting Benoit, Jericho, and Angle over as upper midcard/main event guys in 2000-2001. It's all up to Vince to push the talent instead of himself, his daughter, a washout hag, a one hit/one legged wonder, a cripple, and his former worse foe as the top storylines. Maybe if Vince actually quit pushing non wrestling entities and gave up tv time to, oh I don't know, say wrestlers, then everything would and could be fine. I just don't see the purpose of the split save for smark reasons like "the only way I would ever see Hurricane is if there's a split". I would rather see Hurricane less if his tv time meant more. These guys get time with the split, it's just not being used correctly. And no one has still been able to answer my fundamental question of if you are to do a split, why aren't more stars created and why aren't you winning a new/getting back an old audience? I think RRR had it when he said it's because the styles and storylines ARE THE FUCKING SAME!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted July 16, 2003 What's the use of just seeing guys when the segments they are seen in suck? You don't need an extention to watch guys in shitty segments. But you do need the extension to actually build the cruiserweight and womens divisions. You do need the extension to have a match that runs 10-15 minutes everyweek. You do need the extension with such a large roster to allow people to gain any sort of momentum. Storm in 2-5 minute "boring" segments. That'll help his career. But at least he's on TV. He's bombing in a gimmick that he's putting nothing into other than a cue card. Amazingly, Storm would have to have more personality to actually play a 'boring' person. But he had the time on television to see if it would work, didn't he? Dreamer gets his once a month Raw bit and he gets his ass handed to him and it does nothing to put over who beat him. Wow, a star is born now. Dreamer's a jobber. But a jobber that you actually get to see once in a while, which is more than you could say about him during the InVasion. Cruisers curtain jerking. Great use there. A lot of money can be drawn from the cruisers taking a back seat to the Vince/Steph/Sable/Gowen storyline. Rey Mysterio has main evented SmackDown in both tag matches and in a title match against Hardy. No other cruisers are over enough to warrant being that high on the card. And by the way when have cruiserweights EVER drawn money in America? Even when they were given twenty minutes a night, they weren't raking in the dough. But hey, thank God for the brand extention. Yup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 16, 2003 But you do need the extension to actually build the cruiserweight and womens divisions. You do need the extension to have a match that runs 10-15 minutes everyweek. You do need the extension with such a large roster to allow people to gain any sort of momentum. This isn't long term thinking, however. Before angles used to live and die in a month, leaving room for more angles afterwards. Like say 7-10 angles in the upper-midcard slot per year. Now we have angles that take longer, so they just don't die out in a month. Now, before this past Raw I was all for longer angles, but Raw has been sooooo boooooring with so much filler that it's obvious the WWE doesn't know how to make use of such a long schedule before the next PPV and therefore blow off to whatever angle they're working. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kahran Ramsus Report post Posted July 17, 2003 Its not like they NEED the BE to give the CWs some exposure, its just that they WON'T without it. WWE won't do anything unless they are forced to, and the BE does that to a certain extent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Spaceman Spiff Report post Posted July 17, 2003 And by the way when have cruiserweights EVER drawn money in America? Even when they were given twenty minutes a night, they weren't raking in the dough Were they ever given a chance (serious question)? WCW always had them in opener or midcard spots, and we all know how the WWF/E handles them. That's not to say they *would* draw if given a legit. shot, but it's not like they've ever had the chance to prove/disprove that they can. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kahran Ramsus Report post Posted July 17, 2003 Rey could draw, and I think Noble has potential. If you count Eddy as a CW, then he would be in that category too. None of the others have a chance to be a top player. They just don't have 'it'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted July 17, 2003 Are you talking drawing as a champ or drawing as a division? No I don't see any of them as WWE champ, but as a division they could help if they were pushed right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted July 17, 2003 Are you talking drawing as a champ or drawing as a division? No I don't see any of them as WWE champ, but as a division they could help if they were pushed right. I'll take a card with Rey vs. Ultimo, Kidman vs. Knoble, and Tajiri vs. Chavo any day over a card with Big Show vs. Nathan Jones, Undertaker vs. A-Train.............They couldnt draw as main events, but i think they could definitely be mid-card draws. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lord of The Curry Report post Posted July 17, 2003 *notes that Kazushi Sakuraba, all 180 lbs of him, was one of the biggest draws of the past 10 years* Before anyone says that "Japan is different", the traditional top draws there are also heavies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted July 17, 2003 Yes, the top draws in Japan are heavies but they still don't average anything close to what WWE puts together. The biggest guy over there used to be Vader and he looked huge against everyone except Kobashi and Williams if I recall correctly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kahran Ramsus Report post Posted July 17, 2003 *notes that Kazushi Sakuraba, all 180 lbs of him, was one of the biggest draws of the past 10 years* Before anyone says that "Japan is different", the traditional top draws there are also heavies. Like I said, there are a couple of exceptions. Are you talking drawing as a champ or drawing as a division? No I don't see any of them as WWE champ, but as a division they could help if they were pushed right. The midcard doesn't draw, period. That's the reason we want several midcarders pushed. So that they will get a chance to draw. Marks don't pay to see mediocrity. The midcard serves two purposes, a talent pool from which you take your next set of main eventers, and as a means to keep the crowd entertained while they wait for the guys they paid to see. The CWs are good at the latter, and that is how they should be used for the most part. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
