Casualties of RO

[Guest Big McLargeHuge]

What is the problem? When we say we want new stars we mean GOOD new stars. Why is it bad for us to complain when they push someone new that we hate?

Because you hate everybody. No mystery there.

 

Orton: we hate him because he's in a stable with HHH and he has family connections!

 

Cena: he can't wrestle as good as Kurt Angle, so he must suck! Plus I hate rap LOLZ

 

O'Haire: He's just another hoss with no moves! Never mind I've never actually seen him in WCW!

 

Brock: he got the belt too fast!

 

Batista: He took steroids! Eddie Guerrero would never do that!

 

Haas and Benjamin: they wrestle good but they're so green! I know, they should make Benjamin rap and make Haas Satanic! Why can't WWE think of good characters like that?!

 

If you guys just want to convert WWE to the Chris Benoit and Friends Happy Variety Hour, that's fine. But at least come out and say as much instead of pretending you actually want some new faces, than bitching when you get them.

 

Shit, I'll say it. I want Benoit, Jericho, Booker and RVD pushed to the moon instead of guys who came into the company 10 minutes ago.

 

The problem isn't that they're getting pushed. It's that they're going over guys who have been paying their dues for years and are so close to the top spot they can taste it. But the company just refuses to acknowledge any established fanbase in favor of proving to everyone that they can shove anyone down our throats, and we'll like it.

 

There's also such a ridiculous double standard regarding pushing. The green crop get millions of chances to prove they can draw, while the Smark darlings are given a matter of 3 weeks to drastically alter the ratings. Any push outside of that is almost always due to a lack of top contenders or they're simply bumped into the main event scene until a recovering "top star" is able to compete again.

 

There have been a billion chances to phase FRESH faces into the main event scene. It's almost as if they're choosing the hardest route to get there.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

Orton: we hate him because he's in a stable with HHH and he has family connections!

 

Cena: he can't wrestle as good as Kurt Angle, so he must suck! Plus I hate rap LOLZ

 

O'Haire: He's just another hoss with no moves! Never mind I've never actually seen him in WCW!

 

Brock: he got the belt too fast!

 

Batista: He took steroids! Eddie Guerrero would never do that!

 

Haas and Benjamin: they wrestle good but they're so green! I know, they should make Benjamin rap and make Haas Satanic! Why can't WWE think of good characters like that?!

 

If you guys just want to convert WWE to the Chris Benoit and Friends Happy Variety Hour, that's fine. But at least come out and say as much instead of pretending you actually want some new faces, than bitching when you get them.

oh god.

 

Orton - is an awful wrestler with a mega push. People will hate him.

 

Cena - also an awful wrestler. Not just "not as good as Angle". AWFUL.

 

O Haire - This isn't WCW OHaire. It's WWE OHaire with clubbing forearms, "high-impact slams" and the ever impressive "martial-arts kick". If that gets you off, push his ass to the moon.

 

Brock - I still don't like him, but everyone else does, so I'll let this one slide.

 

Batista - GODAWFUL. You know why people don't give a shit about Eddy taking roids? Because he can still move without injuring himself.

 

I like Hass and Benjamin so I'l leave that one alone.

 

just for the record, people only want new faces because the old faces have been responsible for one of the worst years of a wrestling promotion in the history of man. If the old faces suck too it's not exactly going to turn everyone's frown upside down.

[Guest Adrian 3:16]

I don't hate all those guys. I have seen a LOT of praise for Cena and Team Angle. There's many Brock fans too.

I didn't say you individually. If that doesn't apply to you, there's no reason to get mad. People here like to say "we this" and "we that" when they don't come close to speaking for everybody, so I see no problem in saying "you this" and "you that". There's probably no one here who hates ALL of those guys, but I have seen everyone of them get slammed for one thing or another, so I lumped 'em together.

 

Shit, I'll say it. I want Benoit, Jericho, Booker and RVD pushed to the moon instead of guys who came into the company 10 minutes ago.

 

In that case I applaud your honesty instead of hiding behind the "new faces" banner. And hey, I'm a fan of all four and would like to see them pushed too. Jericho's one of the top 3 all around performers in the company right now, and Benoit, believe it or not, is one of my all time favorites. But I don't see how these guys are any "fresher" than HHH, Rock, Big Show, etc. I've been seeing them on my TV just as long as those guys. If we're talking strictly main event, then yeah, HHH needs to drop the belt to one of them in a bad way. In other news, water is wet.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Yeah, who's going to be better in two years: Booker who can barely work now, or Randy Orton who's just starting out and has potential to improve?

So...how about pushing Orton when he meets his potential instead of now when he sucks?

How about looking ahead to the future instead of doing the same thing WCW did. Randy Orton is improving, he will be something, his matches with Dreamer and Venis were unspectacular TV matches. I haven't seen Booker do better with Christian and he's got a title.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

<-- would rather have "improved" wrestlers in the top company, than "improving".

 

Again, I don't hate Orton, I am for his push, but I generally don't follow the argument of letting wrestlers develop on national TV rather than in the indys. It's like, "ok, you've learned the basics, got a nice tan, and sure do look great... let's move you up and you'll pick up the rest in due time."

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

<-- would rather have "improved" wrestlers in the top company, than "improving".

 

Again, I don't hate Orton, I am for his push, but I generally don't follow the argument of letting wrestlers develop on national TV rather than in the indys. It's like, "ok, you've learned the basics, got a nice tan, and sure do look great... let's move you up and you'll pick up the rest in due time."

I think the marks like a guy they've seen get better over time, though. HHH got big heel (Nearly out-popped Taker in Houston) pops during his run, because they recognized that he was a guy who worked hard and improved. Same with Brock. I do think Orton's being pushed too fast, but I don't think there's anything wrong with putting a guy out there who edoesn't have a lot of experience as long as he isn't botching spots.

 

Orton can work an unspectacular match. He's on par with about half the roster.

[chaosrage 0]

What is the problem? When we say we want new stars we mean GOOD new stars. Why is it bad for us to complain when they push someone new that we hate?

Because you hate everybody. No mystery there.

 

Orton: we hate him because he's in a stable with HHH and he has family connections!

 

Cena: he can't wrestle as good as Kurt Angle, so he must suck! Plus I hate rap LOLZ

 

O'Haire: He's just another hoss with no moves! Never mind I've never actually seen him in WCW!

 

Brock: he got the belt too fast!

 

Batista: He took steroids! Eddie Guerrero would never do that!

 

Haas and Benjamin: they wrestle good but they're so green! I know, they should make Benjamin rap and make Haas Satanic! Why can't WWE think of good characters like that?!

 

If you guys just want to convert WWE to the Chris Benoit and Friends Happy Variety Hour, that's fine. But at least come out and say as much instead of pretending you actually want some new faces, than bitching when you get them.

 

It's already proven that Eddy, Benoit, Jericho, and RVD can work and that fans can care about them. With Orton, you don't have either one. So why give him of all people that kind of push?

 

If anybody should be the legend killer, it should be the King of BLING BLING.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Orton I don't mind as I dig his WCW-2000 offense, it's when guys like La Rez get pushed that really bothers me as they offer nothing to the table other than prancing... and that's only one of them! Orton has been said to "pick things up really well" which is why he should be doing house shows with guys like Benoit and Jericho where he can pick up the tricks and tools of the trade in the ring and off TV. I don't see his match with HBK being anything good... though the feud would be cool if he started to act like early-heel michaels crica 92/93.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Orton I don't mind as I dig his WCW-2000 offense, it's when guys like La Rez get pushed that really bothers me as they offer nothing to the table other than prancing... and that's only one of them! Orton has been said to "pick things up really well" which is why he should be doing house shows with guys like Benoit and Jericho where he can pick up the tricks and tools of the trade in the ring and off TV. I don't see his match with HBK being anything good... though the feud would be cool if he started to act like early-heel michaels crica 92/93.

I agree. It's a shame that Jericho is a heel, because he could do alot for Orton and he'd be willing to, too.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Thats the good thing about house shows, though. You can have Jericho turn face for a night in each respective town, yet have the nation still boo him as a heel.

[Guest JHawk]

I started becoming sick of Orton with last night's Raw, as they hyped a match for two fucking weeks and stuck Orton out there to kill just about whatever heat was left in the building that night. Why hype a match that far in advance to try to further someone else's push?

 

What was the first thing they showed after Michaels tapped? Orton doing the RKO on HBK. It was like "Randy Orton attacked Shawn Michaels, and it led to him losing the match to...um...some guy, I can't remember his name."

 

I'm not really against his push per se, but I don't like that it's starting to come at the expense of a guy like Jericho who actually has people caring about him.

[Guest TonyJaymzV1]

I'm for an Orton push but not an Uber Push. Have him in programs with workers like Booker T, etc. to help him become a more all-around good wrestler. He isn't terrible, but he doesn't stand out right now, workrate wise.

 

Orton does learn things and improve fast. Just watching one dvd of him in OVW, you could tell one match to another that he was improving.

 

The problem that I see is, the guys all learn at OVW, and all learn the same style. They should let these guys go around to various indys, picking up skills and developing their own personanlity.

[Guest Adrian 3:16]

<-- would rather have "improved" wrestlers in the top company, than "improving".

 

Again, I don't hate Orton, I am for his push, but I generally don't follow the argument of letting wrestlers develop on national TV rather than in the indys.  It's like, "ok, you've learned the basics, got a nice tan, and sure do look great... let's move you up and you'll pick up the rest in due time."

I don't disagree with any of this at all. And again, I never said I wanted him in the main event, even if anyone did HHH wouldn't let it happen anyway. Ditto with Cena or O'Haire. They're just new faces to me on a show that's had essentially the same cast up and down the card for years now. New blood is a good thing. But some people would rather watch WWE shoot themselves in the foot and push no one if its not their favorites...

 

It's already proven that Eddy, Benoit, Jericho, and RVD can work and that fans can care about them. With Orton, you don't have either one. So why give him of all people that kind of push?

 

...like this guy here. Why is it a problem to push those 4, AND Orton. Or would you prefer none of them win matches or get TV time out of spite if we don't get Undisputed Champion Benoit? What do Benoit and Eddy even have to do with Orton if they're on different shows? He doesn't get them at SummerSlam, he gets HBK, a guy most of you hate and have long demanded put over someone new. So what gives?

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

But some people would rather watch WWE shoot themselves in the foot and push no one if its not their favorites...

They do that already.

 

Or would you prefer none of them win matches or get TV time out of spite if we don't get Undisputed Champion Benoit?

 

Hmmm.....

[Guest Anglesault]

I don't disagree with any of this at all. And again, I never said I wanted him in the main event, even if anyone did HHH wouldn't let it happen anyway. Ditto with Cena or O'Haire. They're just new faces to me on a show that's had essentially the same cast up and down the card for years now. New blood is a good thing. But some people would rather watch WWE shoot themselves in the foot and push no one if its not their favorites...

I would argue that pushing guys like Orton and SOH, who are not at all over and really not very good in the ring over guys who ARE over and talented is shooting yourself in the foot.

[chaosrage 0]

...like this guy here.  Why is it a problem to push those 4, AND Orton.  Or would you prefer none of them win matches or get TV time out of spite if we don't get Undisputed Champion Benoit?  What do Benoit and Eddy even have to do with Orton if they're on different shows?  He doesn't get them at SummerSlam, he gets HBK, a guy most of you hate and have long demanded put over someone new.  So what gives?

 

Only problem I have is him getting pushed instead of those guys. Like say when he gets a match already lined for Summerslam, and Jericho doesn't. Or when he gets to take his place and fight the guy that Jericho should be going over at SS.

 

I don't want to see HBK's torch get passed on to someone who might not even have what it takes to make it at the top. What a waste that would be.

[Guest The Czech Republic]

I'm Randy's next victim. He's upset about being called a satanic Darwinist.

[Guest jester]

Think of it economically.

 

If they push hard and long enough, get Orton a personalized ring entrance from a big name rapper or rock star, have him ride a motorcycle down to the ring, feed him a few veterans, they will probably eventually get him over. Just like they did with HHH, and in many ways, Brock.

 

In order to get over, RVD merely has to show up.

 

There are other people on Raw that people react to, such as Hurricane, who are also over with about a 1/30th of the effort from WWE.

 

So why go to all the expensive of pushing Orton when you've got guys already waiting to break out?

 

Why not save the expense and run with the people the crowds are reacting to? Orton gets absolutely zero reaction. If not for HHH and Flair being out there with him, we'd be hearing crickets.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

See there's this big stable of midcarders that are actually good. And that deserve to be in the main event.

So everyone says "We want somebody new in the main event!"

WWE looks and thinks "Well we have all of these guys in the midcard that are ready to break out and that everyone likes....or we have a bunch of talentless jobbers that we can shove down everyone's throats and use these established midcarders to get over!"

Do you see the problem there? And do you see why people are angry?

Now if the Orton god push was going to someone that could say...back it up in the ring then there wouldn't be any bitching.

But they seem to pick the crappiest guys to get the push. And maybe if he was doing an entertaining midcard character and angle rather than this "I'm the best and I'm going to beat main event legends" push.

That's why people liked RNN...it was a midcard gimmick for a midcard guy. Now he's got a main event gimmick for a midcard guy.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Think of it economically.

 

If they push hard and long enough, get Orton a personalized ring entrance from a big name rapper or rock star, have him ride a motorcycle down to the ring, feed him a few veterans, they will probably eventually get him over. Just like they did with HHH, and in many ways, Brock.

Really, HHH only needed one guy to get over: Mick Foley. Before that he was nothing, after that he was the best heel champ the WWE had had since Ric Flair.

 

 

And yes, the stigma of PNWNDP is rapidly being wiped away, all Orton needs is a high profile feud and he's on his way to being over.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

No Foley was the straw that broke the camels back. They worked it hardcore to get HHH over the months before that. Remember the HHH challenge? The one where he beat like 3 top contenders in one night?

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

No Foley was the straw that broke the camels back. They worked it hardcore to get HHH over the months before that. Remember the HHH challenge? The one where he beat like 3 top contenders in one night?

Yeah but it didn't get him over. they could've skipped everything and just put him over Cactus Jack at SummerSlam and retired him at Unforgiven and he would've been MADE.

[Guest Anglesault]

And yes, the stigma of PNWNDP is rapidly being wiped away, all Orton needs is a high profile feud and he's on his way to being over.

Again...

 

instead of wasting all that time trying to get Randy over, why not give the feud to someone that already is over and get them more over?

 

Does Randy offer something that no one else does, and for some reason refuses to show it?

[Guest Retro Rob]

instead of wasting all that time trying to get Randy over, why not give the feud to someone that already is over and get them more over?

On the heel side, there aren't that many over wrestlers on Raw. Especially in an upper-mid card spot. Off the top of my head there is Jericho, Christian, and MAYBE Test. They need to get some more hated heels in order for a wider variety of feuds.

[Guest CronoT]

Randy Orton was more over when he was a face. When they did the "recouperation" angle, they went over board. Instead of getting him heat, it made him boring and annoying.

 

How many people just changed the channel when the Orton Updates came on? I did.

[Guest Retro Rob]

I actually thought the RNN Breaking News was highly entertaining.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I can make this REAL simple for both sides of the fight.

 

I want to see the people that actually get reactions get pushed instead of who the WWE thinks SHOULD be getting reactions.

 

How has Benoit fared since his standing O? How has Orton fared since his second injury of the year?

[Guest Retro Rob]

I want to see the people that actually get reactions get pushed instead of who the WWE thinks SHOULD be getting reactions.

Then how do you ever expect there to be new stars created? New wrestlers do not become popular by sporadically appearing and losing TV matches during their first year in the spotlight.

 

That is the exact logic the company was using in all of 2002, that was quite a successful year right?

[Guest CronoT]

I actually thought the RNN Breaking News was highly entertaining.

It was at first, but it starting becoming very monotonous.

 

(mo·not·o·nous

adj.

 

1. Sounded or spoken in an unvarying tone.

2. Tediously repetitious or lacking in variety. See Synonyms at boring.)

 

Kind of like Triple H's matches and PPV title defenses.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I want to see the people that actually get reactions get pushed instead of who the WWE thinks SHOULD be getting reactions.

Then how do you ever expect there to be new stars created? New wrestlers do not become popular by sporadically appearing and losing TV matches during their first year in the spotlight.

 

That is the exact logic the company was using in all of 2002, that was quite a successful year right?

I guess it wasn't clear enough for some people.

 

Maybe if I use capital letters.

 

NEW STARS DOESN'T HAVE TO MEAN YOUNG STARS SINCE YOUNG STARS ARE SELDOM READY TO HANDLE THE BURDEN AND ALMOST ALWAYS ARE FORCED TO PAY DUES EVEN AFTER THEIR PUSH.

 

NEW STARS MEANS SOMEONE THAT WE HAVEN'T HAD TO WATCH GET PUSHED EVERY DAY FOR THE LAST 5 YEARS.

 

There was a time when Benoit and RVD and Booker could have actually been new stars without having to take a 22 year old and push him harder than he can stand to no reaction.

 

The fact that Orton, Cena, Brock and the like are getting these pushes no questions asked isn't working very well either is it?

 

in both 2002 and now...the common thread is people that get over being passed over.

 

In 2002 it was in favor of the older generation and now it's in favor of the next generation and whatever "name" they can dust off for a while.

 

There's a whole lost generation in there that never got a chance to prove they could draw or not in favor of either older people no one wanted to see, or younger people that no one asked to yet.