Murmuring Beast 0 Report post Posted July 23, 2003 I agree with BPS, Vince has refused to give RVD a chance to become a main eventer, all bullshit aside it hasn't been his fault, we know it and even the marks know it, but like i said before the only person that could make you and break you in the WWE is Vince. So i rather see RVD in TNA than being jobbed out for no apparent reason in WWE , it's a shame that he wasn't allowed to be a main eventer and i hope that will bite the WWE in the ass someday, it reminds me what Verne Gagne did in the AWA with Hogan, because he thought Hogan wasn't championship material he kept on keeping him away from the world title belt,that was the first nail in the AWA's coffin.Maybe RVD is this generation's Hulk Hogan? He might end up in NWA TNA and take that federation to the next level? Don't agree with the Hogan analogy, but RVD, as I said waay back could be used to take TNA to a higher plain in wrestling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goose749 Report post Posted July 23, 2003 He has less than a year left on his contract...so some of us RVD lovers (Ok...just me) are counting the days and hoping he doesn't re-up with the company. RVD haters too. it reminds me what Verne Gagne did in the AWA with Hogan, because he thought Hogan wasn't championship material he kept on keeping him away from the world title belt,that was the first nail in the AWA's coffin.Maybe RVD is this generation's Hulk Hogan? please... don't compare RVD to Hogan. The lack of similarities between the two are endless. Agree though, he may be good for TNA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted July 23, 2003 He's good (and as many besides me have said many time) and maybe the best person for TNA for a couple reasons. 1. He'd actually win. As fans...people like to see there guys get used meaningfully. Alot of people were happy when Raven got fired because it meant he would be off Heat and into an actual push wherever he goes (RoH, TNA). 2. RVD represents my main problem with the WWE. They don't listen to fans. It wouldn't have mattered if RVD's pops literally blew the roof off of an arena (and at times they had come close) he still isn't going to win the title (even the fake one). That's why he's a "smark darling". Sure he's sloppy and can't sell or cut a promo. All of that is TRUE. But the WWE still should have pushed him. Because more people wanted to see it than what they were doing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cherry Blossom Viscount 0 Report post Posted July 23, 2003 But what if A-Train somehow got really over, should he be pushed too? Also, at one time, Too Cool and Rikish had pops the size of RVD's 2001 pops. Should any of them had a main event push? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted July 23, 2003 If A-Train got over than YES. Let me clarify what over is and is not as I use it. Over is not: Pop for entreance music and one or two spots or catchphrases (Worm, dancing). Over is: Keeping crowd heat throughout the entire match regardless of who you are in their with. That's what RVD was doing in the last half of 2001 until his burial in 2002. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goose749 Report post Posted July 23, 2003 If A-Train got over than YES. Let me clarify what over is and is not as I use it. Over is not: Pop for entreance music and one or two spots or catchphrases (Worm, dancing). Over is: Keeping crowd heat throughout the entire match regardless of who you are in their with. That's what RVD was doing in the last half of 2001 until his burial in 2002. over is not: being a big, hairy bitch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Hamburglar Report post Posted July 23, 2003 Over is not: Pop for entreance music and one or two spots or catchphrases (Worm, dancing). Over is: Keeping crowd heat throughout the entire match regardless of who you are in their with. That's what RVD was doing in the last half of 2001 until his burial in 2002. During their hot period in 2000 Rikishi and Too Cool were getting huge crowd pops for a hell of a lot more than just the worm and the dancing. They were getting huge reactions for even their formula tag-team stuff. I'd certainly say they qualified under any definition of 'over.' And RVD is kind of a double-edged sword. Was he buried? Yeah, pretty much. But on the other hand, his act got stale rather quickly as well, and as much as people like to gibber about 'teh WWE STYLE!', that staleness was down to RVD's inherent flaws as a worker. It could be argued that the burial caused this staleness. It could be argued that the burial occurred in natural anticipation of this staleness. It could be argued that both reasons for his decrease in pops happened independently of each other. As for what's best for RVD's future career, I'd say it'd actually benefit for him to give Kane a good fight in a big match but eventually wind up completely destroyed. RVD needs to show some kind of vulnerability, some kind of character if he's supposed to overcome his terrible wrestling skills. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest eirejmcmahon Report post Posted July 23, 2003 I believe it, only because AJ Styles turned down a WWE contract last year because he was making more money anyway. Wasn't AJ offered a shitty five hundred dollar a week development contract ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NoCalMike Report post Posted July 23, 2003 Over is not: Pop for entreance music and one or two spots or catchphrases (Worm, dancing). Over is: Keeping crowd heat throughout the entire match regardless of who you are in their with. That's what RVD was doing in the last half of 2001 until his burial in 2002. During their hot period in 2000 Rikishi and Too Cool were getting huge crowd pops for a hell of a lot more than just the worm and the dancing. They were getting huge reactions for even their formula tag-team stuff. I'd certainly say they qualified under any definition of 'over.' And RVD is kind of a double-edged sword. Was he buried? Yeah, pretty much. But on the other hand, his act got stale rather quickly as well, and as much as people like to gibber about 'teh WWE STYLE!', that staleness was down to RVD's inherent flaws as a worker. It could be argued that the burial caused this staleness. It could be argued that the burial occurred in natural anticipation of this staleness. It could be argued that both reasons for his decrease in pops happened independently of each other. As for what's best for RVD's future career, I'd say it'd actually benefit for him to give Kane a good fight in a big match but eventually wind up completely destroyed. RVD needs to show some kind of vulnerability, some kind of character if he's supposed to overcome his terrible wrestling skills. Being "stale" has nothing to do with it. Nobody changes their own style on a regular basis. Triple H has not changed one damn thing about the way he wrestles in over 8 years. RVD's style is just about INCAPABLE of being stale in a WWE enviorment because he is the ONLY ONE that does that style.(In WWE) Nobody changes their style,(besides non-WWE workers getting the "re-education" of working upon being hired) just maybe their character. I agree with bps, anyone at the given time can pop a crowd. Look at Booker T, he pops the crowd for his whole interview in anticipation of the crowd getting to say "Suuuuuucka" with Booker, but as soon as the match starts, everyone in the crowd can care less and they just die. When RVD first joined WWE and was actually being used EFFECTIVELY and being involved in IMPORTANT storylines, it all combined into RVD being MONSTER over. He was outpopping EVERYONE for a couple of months. He even outpopped Rock during their match, because the fans saw him as something NEW and FRESH to the Main Event picture. The crowd heat never died on him until he started getting jobbed out. I have the last smackdown before the brand split on tape, and he was still incredibly over. He was the I-C champ at the time as well. Something he should be holding right now, quite frankly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Retro Rob Report post Posted July 23, 2003 Never in wrestling did a wrestler need to be a great in-ring worker to make it to the top. People get over because of factors besides their ability to put on ***** matches. Whatever that criteria is for a wrestler shouldn't matter because if someone is as over as Booker T, Goldust, and RVD were over the last year they should have been pushed to the top NO questions asked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CanadianChick Report post Posted July 23, 2003 The thing is, RVD is still pretty damn over. He still out pops most of the so-called main eventers, especially on Raw. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Retro Rob Report post Posted July 23, 2003 His match against HHH had practically no heat at all. Compared to the level of heat he had in the fall of both 01 and 02, he is not as over as he used to be and thus they missed out on when they should have pulled the trigger. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NoCalMike Report post Posted July 23, 2003 Well here is the problem. WWE claims it listens to what the fans want. They obviously wanted RVD at the top, not to be buried slowly into oblivion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CanadianChick Report post Posted July 23, 2003 I know he isn't AS over as he once was, but he's still over. If he gets a push, I say he gets the pops he did in 2001-2002. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Retro Rob Report post Posted July 23, 2003 I know he isn't AS over as he once was, but he's still over. If he gets a push, I say he gets the pops he did in 2001-2002. Look at what happened with Jericho. The guy went a good two years without winning the title even though EVERYONE wanted him to be the Champ. What happened when he finally won the title? Hardly a succesful reign if you ask me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CanadianChick Report post Posted July 23, 2003 Well, when he won the WCW title a first, I would say that was a success. The reign was fine until NWO overshadowed the champ and Steph and Lucy came about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted July 23, 2003 The reign was fine until NWO overshadowed the champ and Steph and Lucy came about. He needed a belt shot, a crooked ref and a fast count to beat Rikishi. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Retro Rob Report post Posted July 23, 2003 Well, when he won the WCW title a first, I would say that was a success. The reign was fine until NWO overshadowed the champ and Steph and Lucy came about. The nWo entered two months into his three month reign... Think about how great a reign in 2000 would have been for Chris. Then compare that to what we got at the end of 2001. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cabbageboy Report post Posted July 23, 2003 Here is basically what will happen with RVD. I think they will give him a token bullshit title reign at some point just to get him to resign when his contract is up (provided they even WANT him). You know, much like they did with Jericho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NoCalMike Report post Posted July 23, 2003 Jericho gets status, but never wins. RVD always wins but the wins are meaningless. So they are both pretty much going nowhere fast. Even though they should be 2 members of the main event on RAW and feuding over AT LEAST the I-C belt. No one can say that an RVD/Jericho series would be less entertaining than a Booker T/Christian series. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest GameCop Report post Posted July 23, 2003 It's a shame WWE didn't capitalize on Jericho or RVD when they were at their peaks. Jericho in the summer/fall of 2000 RVD in the summer/fall of 2001 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Breetai Report post Posted July 24, 2003 Interesting...How HHH hasn't as far as I recall Patatoed or injured anyone... One word: Jobberdriver. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Askewniverse Report post Posted July 24, 2003 Isn't that more of Garner's fault since he took it that way? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest goodhelmet Report post Posted July 24, 2003 Not to be mr. correcting, but Bret was a wrestler for more than 20 years including his Stampede stints before WWF. that means he was wrestling since 1965??? damn! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted July 24, 2003 I remember WWE did a website interview with HHH, when he came back from his Survivor Series injury, shortly after he interfered in the HBK / RVD match. They asked him if there were going to be reprecussions / heat / backlash on RVD because of the accident. HHH said "No. In this business, you take risks, etc." The following month, RVD is performing host duty at the World. Hm... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cabbageboy Report post Posted July 24, 2003 If you recall Jericho went through much the same type of crappy streak when he wasn't terribly over or motivated in the ring. Think back to 2 years ago, ironically in the summer. Jericho was just doing NOTHING during the initial Invasion stuff, and then had the notably bad match with Rhino at SS 2001. Then he got to play job bitch for RVD for a while (albeit in good matches) before the Rock feud over the WCW title revived his career. I think with RVD it's much the same thing....his initial period of super overness is waning and now they don't know what to do with him and he's not motivated. So they'll eventually have him win the title for a while (maybe if Kane gets it down the line) before jobbing to HHH again or something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest edotherocket Report post Posted July 24, 2003 I think a great story waiting to happen is a revival of the Brock/RVD feud. Before Brock won the title for the first time, he destroyed everyone except RVD who had him beat at last years Vengeance until Heyman caused the DQ. Move RVD to Smackdown and bingo, something for him to do! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NoCalMike Report post Posted July 24, 2003 Well 6 months ago Smackdown would be a good option, but right now Smackdown is oozing with McMahonism and the Angle/Brock thing looks to be long term. RVD could have some good matches with more people on Smackdown which would be good for the smarks, but overall he will be stuck in the same boat on smackdown. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted July 24, 2003 I don't know, I still like Triple H more than RVD. Despite all that I've read, heard and seen, Triple H still entertains me when he's on the screen. RVD doesn't. I can't explain it any more than that, I guess it's just personal preference. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted July 24, 2003 His match against HHH had practically no heat at all. Compared to the level of heat he had in the fall of both 01 and 02, he is not as over as he used to be and thus they missed out on when they should have pulled the trigger. Because back then they were pushing him and people thought he could win. He beat Rock, Angle, Austin, Jericho and Taker like in a row and held some kind of victory over like a half dozen champions without taking their titles. That HHH match didn't have heat because no one thought he had a prayer... UNTIL the last 3 minutes when it actually seemed like he did have a chance (When Bisch came out and restarted and RVD hit the VanDaminator) then the crowd came alive. I think that's just further proof that fans will cheer for who they want to win...and WWE doesn't care. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
