German Poll

[Guest JangoFett4Hire]

 

BERLIN -- One-third of Germans under age 30 believe the U.S. government may have sponsored the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington, according to a poll published Wednesday.

 

And about 20 percent of Germans in all age groups hold this view, according to a survey of 1,000 people conducted for the weekly Die Zeit.

 

The poll also said 68 percent of all Germans felt the media had not reported the full truth behind the attacks, in which some 3,000 people were killed when hijacked planes were crashed into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

 

After the Sept. 11 attacks, there was an outpouring of sympathy from Germans for the United States. Despite misgivings, Germany joined a military campaign against the al Qaeda network that Washington blamed for the attacks.

 

But as the United States geared up for war against Iraq, relations soured as Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder expressed vocal opposition to the plans.

 

Although the United States took offense at Berlin's attitude, Schroeder's anti-war stance was popular in Germany and helped him to snatch victory in last September's elections.

 

Asked whether they believed the U.S. government could have ordered the Sept. 11 attacks, 31 percent of those surveyed under the age of 30 answered "yes," while 19 percent overall gave the same answer.

 

Die Zeit said widespread disbelief about the reasons given by the United States for going to war in Iraq and suspicion about media coverage of the conflict had fostered a climate in which conspiracy theories flourished.

 

"The news is controlled," 17-year-old Kenny Donaubaur was quoted as saying. "You could see that in the Iraq war. It doesn't seem to me that you get the full truth."

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

The funny thing is how we used to have so much of the world's sympathy until we squandered it away by flaunting our position of authority.

 

Such a poll would have never appeared in the month or two after 9/11 except in streets of Afghanistan.

[Guest Vyce]

The funny thing is how we used to have so much of the world's sympathy until we squandered it away by flaunting our position of authority.

 

Such a poll would have never appeared in the month or two after 9/11 except in streets of Afghanistan.

Oh PLEASE.

 

They're Germans. They likely believe that the Jews were responsible for it.

 

Spare me the tired "We squandered the world's good will" argument. It's ever so cliche.

[Guest Anglesault]

Schraube Deutschland. Sie sind das Land, das entschied, daß wir

Krieghändler waren. DIE DEUTSCHEN jemand anderes angerufen

Krieghändler

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

The funny thing is how we used to have so much of the world's sympathy until we squandered it away by flaunting our position of authority.

 

Such a poll would have never appeared in the month or two after 9/11 except in streets of Afghanistan.

Oh PLEASE.

 

They're Germans. They likely believe that the Jews were responsible for it.

 

Spare me the tired "We squandered the world's good will" argument. It's ever so cliche.

Well, that was uncalled for.

 

As for the poll, it's just usual Euro-sceptism towards the states. They said that the States didn't fully report 9/11 to it's fullest extent, and that it may have been a plan by the US government (extremely unlikely, but I've heard crazier things happen). Anyone surprised by that point of view needs to read the news more...

[Murmuring Beast 0]

Oh PLEASE.

 

They're Germans. They likely believe that the Jews were responsible for it.

 

Spare me the tired "We squandered the world's good will" argument. It's ever so cliche.

 

...

[Guest JMA]

Oh PLEASE.

 

They're Germans. They likely believe that the Jews were responsible for it.

 

Spare me the tired "We squandered the world's good will" argument. It's ever so cliche.

Just because some Germans have their heads up their asses (the ones who thought 9/11 was staged) doesn't mean you should stereotype them as Jew killing Nazis. Two wrongs rarely make a right.

[Guest bob_barron]

Which was worse-

 

What some Germans believe?

 

Or this-

 

They're Germans. They likely believe that the Jews were responsible for it.

[Guest Anglesault]

Oh PLEASE.

 

They're Germans.  They likely believe that the Jews were responsible for it. 

 

Spare me the tired "We squandered the world's good will" argument.  It's ever so cliche.

Just because some Germans have their heads up their asses (the ones who thought 9/11 was staged) doesn't mean you should stereotype them as Jew killing Nazis.

Can we call them the true war mongering bastards, seeing how they're responsible for a couple world wars?

[Guest bob_barron]

They're only responsible for World War II.

 

World War I was started by a Serbian assassinating the Austrian archduke (I think).

[Guest Anglesault]

Austrian archduke.

 

WWI was a war where a lot of countries should take some blame. (The Germans, the Russians, The Austrians some people place some blame on Britain and France)

[Murmuring Beast 0]

Archduke Franz Ferdinand.

[Guest Some Guy]

OK, how many Germans believe teh Holocaust never happened?

 

How many people give a shit what the Germans think?

 

How much stroke do teh Germans have in the world? They are just slightly more relevant than the French.

[Guest Ripper]

The funny thing is how we used to have so much of the world's sympathy until we squandered it away by flaunting our position of authority.

 

Such a poll would have never appeared in the month or two after 9/11 except in streets of Afghanistan.

Oh PLEASE.

 

They're Germans. They likely believe that the Jews were responsible for it.

 

Spare me the tired "We squandered the world's good will" argument. It's ever so cliche.

You ~ German-ist

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

OK, how many Germans believe teh Holocaust never happened?

 

How many people give a shit what the Germans think?

 

How much stroke do teh Germans have in the world? They are just slightly more relevant than the French.

Germany is still well into the top ten most powerful nations in the world.

 

And Lemmy believed the holocaust never happened, so its not just those pesky Germans...

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Germany is primarily to blame for World War I. Austria was basically a German puppet-state by 1914. Interestingly, Austria-Hungary had all the sympathy following the assassination, but lost it when they stalled the declaration of war by running to Germany first. The conflict could have been contained in the Balkans (much like the Russo-Turkish War in the late 1800s), if not for Germany and even there Wilhelm was the driving force behind the Austro-Hungarian invasion of Serbia.

[Guest MrRant]

Germany has sausage... damn good sausage.

 

And beer.

 

Lightyears ahead of the French.

[Guest The Metal Maniac]

OK, how many Germans believe teh Holocaust never happened?

 

I may be wrong here, but isn't it against the law in Germany to deny the Holocaust?

 

I'm sure that there's something like that against the law in Germany, but I could be wrong...

 

And I'm not shocked by this poll in the least.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

The 19% overall number is somewhat high, but I bet if you asked the same poll in even the US would would get a non-trivial number of people who believe that (most of whom will end up in some armed camp in Montana or chasing UFOs in New Mexico, mind you). Hell, even in that BBC poll something like 13% of Americans felt that the US was actually more dangerous than Al Queda.

[Guest Vyce]

Germany is primarily to blame for World War I. Austria was basically a German puppet-state by 1914. Interestingly, Austria-Hungary had all the sympathy following the assassination, but lost it when they stalled the declaration of war by running to Germany first. The conflict could have been contained in the Balkans (much like the Russo-Turkish War in the late 1800s), if not for Germany and even there Wilhelm was the driving force behind the Austro-Hungarian invasion of Serbia.

This is true.

 

One of Germany's top military minds, Schlieffen, devised a war plan which would allow Germany to conquer France in a very short amount of time (they planned to be knocking on Paris' door by around the 40th day). This was YEARS before WWI happened.

 

The Germans WERE (and maybe still are) warmongering bastards. There was little reason for WWI except as a result of German's bloodthirst. The Serbs hated the Austria-Hungary / Hapsburg empire, who hated them back. The assassination of the Archduke should have led to a contained war in the Balkans, but a) the Germans hated the ethnic Slavs, and b) they wanted the opportunity to use their war plan to conquer more of Europe.

 

So you had Germany & Austria-Hungary ganging up on the Serbians, which brought in the Russians (who felt the need to protect their Slavic brothers), which brought in the French (who were allies of the Russians and faced invasion by the Germans), which brought in Britain, and Belgium was forced to get involved once the Germans mobilised and invaded their country to make a run against France.

 

Other nations eventually got involved (U.S., the Turks), but it all was the prime result of Germany.

 

As was World War II. Germany was so humiliated and resentful over the outcome of WWI, that maniacs like Hitler were allowed to come to power and frenzy the country into another war.

[Guest mach7]

The funny thing is how we used to have so much of the world's sympathy until we squandered it away by flaunting our position of authority.

 

Such a poll would have never appeared in the month or two after 9/11 except in streets of Afghanistan.

Oh PLEASE.

 

They're Germans. They likely believe that the Jews were responsible for it.

 

Spare me the tired "We squandered the world's good will" argument. It's ever so cliche.

Good lord you're a dolt. Nazi does not equal German. And vice versa. The Nazi's were a political party that used propaganda and lies to gain control of Germany. A lot of Nazi's weren't even German. To sit here and generalize all German's as anti-semite's is just about as fucking ignorant as Gamecop's "it's okay for Kobe to rape people" rant.

 

As for the poll, there have been TONS of reports circulated that illustrate the Bush Admin had plenty of prior knowledge that SOMETHING was going to happen on Sept. 11. I'm not saying THEY staged it, but PNAC [Jeb Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld & Paul Wolfowitz] even released a report called "Rebuilding America's Defenses" where they state that what they need to kickstart it all was "some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor..."

 

An interesting read for those who have open minds and can accept the concept that it IS possible for the government to be corrupt:

 

http://pilger.carlton.com/print/124759

 

and another

 

http://www.terraknowledge.net/news/terrak040503a.htm

[Guest Vyce]

The funny thing is how we used to have so much of the world's sympathy until we squandered it away by flaunting our position of authority.

 

Such a poll would have never appeared in the month or two after 9/11 except in streets of Afghanistan.

Oh PLEASE.

 

They're Germans. They likely believe that the Jews were responsible for it.

 

Spare me the tired "We squandered the world's good will" argument. It's ever so cliche.

Good lord you're a dolt.

And fuck you too.

 

As for the poll, there have been TONS of reports circulated that illustrate the Bush Admin had plenty of prior knowledge that SOMETHING was going to happen on Sept. 11. I'm not saying THEY staged it, but PNAC [Jeb Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld & Paul Wolfowitz] even released a report called "Rebuilding America's Defenses" where they state that what they need to kickstart it all was "some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor..."

 

Ah, now I know where you're coming from.

 

I shall now discount every post of yours I come across, as was done to other likeminded vitriolic ideologues such as Ozymandias and FrankZappaMask.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

Hell, even in that BBC poll something like 13% of Americans felt that the US was actually more dangerous than Al Queda.

I'm pretty damn sure that the US have caused and will cause more pain, suffering and civillian deaths than Al-Queda(sp?), no? It's not a huge leap of faith to think the US government is the more dangerous of the two...

[Guest EricMM]

An interesting read for those who have open minds and can accept the concept that it IS possible for the government to be corrupt:

 

It's so hilarious when people talk about having an open mind like this; I do accept that governments can be corrupt, but YOU don't seem to be able to accept that sometimes they can be honest.

 

Grow up.

[Guest Insane Bump Machine]

They're Germans. They likely believe that the Jews were responsible for it.

As possibly the only German user on this board I'll give you a heartfelt 'FUCK YOU!' for this idiotic outburst.

 

How many people give a shit what the Germans think?

 

How much stroke do teh Germans have in the world?  They are just slightly more relevant than the French.

 

Pretty much every nation around the world gives a shit what we think. Yes, even your 'almighty' America. Do you people even know what's going on in the world? Doesn't seem that way.

 

I may be wrong here, but isn't it against the law in Germany to deny the Holocaust?

 

I'm sure that there's something like that against the law in Germany, but I could be wrong...

 

And I'm not shocked by this poll in the least.

 

Yes, there is a law like that. And I'm not shocked by this poll either. First of all, the thirty percent only said that there is a POSSIBILITY, they didn't say that there was. And after the strange behaviour by the Americans during the last few years it's no wonder that many people don't trust them anymore. All the French and Germany hate just because we didn't want to go to war, all the decisions against the environment by your authorities, all the hissy fits by your gouvernment when we didn't believe in your so-called evidence etc. etc.

 

The Germans WERE (and maybe still are) warmongering bastards.

 

I don't think that you will find a more peace-loving country in Europe BECAUSE of our history. I hope you're 12 years old and will still learn a thing or two about our world in school, but I know better. That's so sad.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

It's so hilarious when people talk about having an open mind like this; I do accept that governments can be corrupt, but YOU don't seem to be able to accept that sometimes they can be honest.

 

Grow up.

Of course, Eric has it exactly right: that's exactly what such people have to do. There's an old aphorism that goes something like this:

"If you aren't a liberal by the time you're 18, you have no heart. If you aren't a conservative by the time you're 30, you have no brain."

 

Can't rush things.

[Guest EricMM]

First of all, the thirty percent only said that there is a POSSIBILITY, they didn't say that there was.

 

Oh, that makes it so much better.

 

Anyone who think that the U.S. Govt. could possibly be behind or related to 9/11 is plain foolish.

 

Causing thousands of American deaths doesn't lead one to victory come election time, and the info WOULD come out.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Ah, now I know where you're coming from.

 

I shall now discount every post of yours I come across, as was done to other likeminded vitriolic ideologues such as Ozymandias and FrankZappaMask.

Too bad you're so busy picking apart the pieces of others' arguements you can argue with that you ignored this point:

 

Nazi does not equal German. And vice versa.

 

The other thing that I have to mention is that, like it or not, they probably see a lot of the same movies and TV that we do, and aside from propaganda films ala DC 9/11, I've never seen the media protray the US government as more than some kind of secret illuminati working the public to get re-elected. Even that BBC poll showed that many people in other countries feel just as free as we are. They probably don't feel we're very free at all due to the impression they get from both their news (if you think CNN is anti-american, then hoo boy) and their entertainment.

[Guest Some Guy]

How many people give a shit what the Germans think?

 

How much stroke do teh Germans have in the world?  They are just slightly more relevant than the French.

 

Pretty much every nation around the world gives a shit what we think. Yes, even your 'almighty' America. Do you people even know what's going on in the world? Doesn't seem that way.

How'd that whole trying to block the liberation of Iraq thing go for you? Try again, we really don't care that much about what you have to say, unless you agre with us then you can ride in the back seat behind the Brits.

[Guest Insane Bump Machine]

First of all, the thirty percent only said that there is a POSSIBILITY, they didn't say that there was.

 

Oh, that makes it so much better.

 

Anyone who think that the U.S. Govt. could possibly be behind or related to 9/11 is plain foolish.

 

Causing thousands of American deaths doesn't lead one to victory come election time, and the info WOULD come out.

It makes it a little better, but of course doesn't change the fact that it's stupid to believe that. You people are just blowing this WAY out of proportion. This was only one little poll by one newspaper or whatever. Since when does anyone give a crap about those polls?