German Poll

[Murmuring Beast 0]

Explain how we were "looking out for [ourselves]" when we went into Somalia and Bosnia.

 

And look where those prosperous countries are...

[Guest Cancer Marney]

This is not an explanation. I will restate the question.

 

Explain how it was in our national self-interest to intervene in

 

a) Somalia

 

b) Bosnia

[Guest Insane Bump Machine]

The anti-black community in America is most definately comperable to the anti-semetic community in Germany.

Really? The Ku Klux Klan has a difficult time procuring more than 150-200 people for its rallies. I know the figures because I've field-managed security for counter-demonstrators. 12-17% of Germans polled in April 2003 believe that Israel was behind 9/11. That's out of 83,251,851 people. Comparable? Don't make me laugh.

nationalist parties (DVU, the illegal NPD, REP) get only up to around 200 people to participate in demonstrations around here and are usually met with 500-1000 anti-nationalistic demonstrants. That's amuch more fitting comparison than a poll result. Oh, and you could really back up that statement with the source of the poll in questions, that's where your linking skills might atcually be of some help.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

The anti-black community in America is most definately comperable to the anti-semetic community in Germany.

Really? The Ku Klux Klan has a difficult time procuring more than 150-200 people for its rallies. I know the figures because I've field-managed security for counter-demonstrators. 12-17% of Germans polled in April 2003 believe that Israel was behind 9/11. That's out of 83,251,851 people. Comparable? Don't make me laugh.

That is the KKK. Not those who discriminate against black people. And believing that Israel was behind 9/11 doesn't mean they're rascist, although it doesn't look that good. And do you have a link to the poll you mentioned?

 

Also, wasn't there a similar thing with a high proportion of Americans believing that Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11?

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

This is not an explanation.

No it isn't.

 

Also, IBM and I made the same points at the same point. ROCK ON~!

[Murmuring Beast 0]

America has been known to give poor countires aid in the form of weapons so that under-the-table dealings can be done to secure cheap imports. Don't think otherwise

 

-Listens to Ignoreland-

[Guest Cancer Marney]

you could really back up that statement with the source of the poll in questions, that's where your linking skills might atcually be of some help.

Gallup; requires subscription. It's easy enough to find with the keywords "Jew," "German," and "9/11."

[Guest Ripper]

And any southerner can tell you that the KKK just go under many guises now to avoid the stigma that comes with the Klan. It will be some combination of Confederate, Brothers, Conserve....they are the groups that REAL Confederate conservationist hate passionately because they are grouped with them.

[Guest Some Guy]

How'd that whole trying to block the liberation of Iraq thing go for you?  Try again, we really don't care that much about what you have to say, unless you agre with us then you can ride in the back seat behind the Brits.

...wow, this board is really filled with stupid assholes. We didn't try to block any kind of liberation, we were trying to prevent a crime against international law. I didn't work out, we have to live with that. But that doesn't change the fact that we and our European partners are an important part of international politics. It makes me sick how some of you just ignore the fact that OUR soldiers are protecting Afghanistan right now. And how come that the American economy is so dependent on European market if we all don't matter? And why is it that Bush would love to see us help out in Irak because the whole thing is burning a hole in his pocket?

You most certainly did try to block a liberation. And you failed. Sorry.

 

Iraq wasn't a threat? Interesting, that you think that and still feel that I'm a "stupid asshole."

 

You and your Europpean partners, it takes 10 or 12 of you to have any real say in anything and unfortunately your's and the French President ran on an anti-American ticket and became irrelevant in the eyes of many Americans and most importantly the eyes of the President and his his administration that you've tried to defame. But defemantion is nothing new to you guys.[/cheap shot response for being called an asshole for no good reason]

 

Why are we dependant on the European market? Because there is money to be made. COuls we cut out the French and Germans and still do fine? Yes. You haev to partner up with an entire continant to stay quasi-relevant.

 

Bush would love to see you so something to help out the world rather than obstruction and name calling. But that doesn't seem to be happening any time soon.

[Guest Insane Bump Machine]

This is not an explanation.

No it isn't.

 

Also, IBM and I made the same points at the same point. ROCK ON~!

It's no use anyway, trying to get Marney to look beyond the corner of her desk is like making HHH job to Jericho.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

you could really back up that statement with the source of the poll in questions, that's where your linking skills might atcually be of some help.

Gallup; requires subscription. It's easy enough to find with the keywords "Jew," "German," and "9/11."

Any chance you could cut and paste? I don't like paying for my propoganda...

[Guest Cancer Marney]

America has been known to give poor countires aid in the form of weapons so that under-the-table dealings can be done to secure cheap imports

Kindly quote a figure for our imports from Somalia and Bosnia.

[Murmuring Beast 0]

Why would I have figures?

[Murmuring Beast 0]

Funny how most of the clothes we wear comes from places like Vietnam. Was there a war there a while back? I seem to remember...

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Why would I have figures?

Because you made a claim that requires them.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Funny how most of the clothes we wear comes from places like Vietnam. Was there a war there a while back? I seem to remember...

Um, right. We went to war in Vietnam so we could get cheaper cotton.

 

WTF.

[Murmuring Beast 0]

So why are things still being produced there and America taking advantage of it? Because America looks out for America.

 

Screw the rest.

[Guest Insane Bump Machine]

Funny how most of the clothes we wear comes from  places like Vietnam. Was there a war there a while back? I seem to remember...

Um, right. We went to war in Vietnam so we could get cheaper cotton.

 

WTF.

that's not what he said.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

How'd that whole trying to block the liberation of Iraq thing go for you?  Try again, we really don't care that much about what you have to say, unless you agre with us then you can ride in the back seat behind the Brits.

...wow, this board is really filled with stupid assholes. We didn't try to block any kind of liberation, we were trying to prevent a crime against international law. I didn't work out, we have to live with that. But that doesn't change the fact that we and our European partners are an important part of international politics. It makes me sick how some of you just ignore the fact that OUR soldiers are protecting Afghanistan right now. And how come that the American economy is so dependent on European market if we all don't matter? And why is it that Bush would love to see us help out in Irak because the whole thing is burning a hole in his pocket?

You most certainly did try to block a liberation. And you failed. Sorry.

 

Iraq wasn't a threat? Interesting, that you think that and still feel that I'm a "stupid asshole."

 

You and your Europpean partners, it takes 10 or 12 of you to have any real say in anything and unfortunately your's and the French President ran on an anti-American ticket and became irrelevant in the eyes of many Americans and most importantly the eyes of the President and his his administration that you've tried to defame. But defemantion is nothing new to you guys.[/cheap shot response for being called an asshole for no good reason]

 

Why are we dependant on the European market? Because there is money to be made. COuls we cut out the French and Germans and still do fine? Yes. You haev to partner up with an entire continant to stay quasi-relevant.

 

Bush would love to see you so something to help out the world rather than obstruction and name calling. But that doesn't seem to be happening any time soon.

Germany didn't try and block it. They wanted a more compelling arguement to go into Iraq than what was given, as common perception is that it was just Dubya finishing off his fathers work.

 

It's not a case of Germany being obstinate for the sake of it just to piss you guys off.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

The fact is that America has done pretty damn well out of the countries they "liberated"...

[Murmuring Beast 0]

The fact is that America has done pretty damn well out of the countries they "liberated"...

 

Damn right.

[Guest Some Guy]

And some of those countries that we've liberated have done really well for themselves as well. The Germans and the French are doing ok are they not? How about Japan?

[Guest Powerplay]

Funny how most of the clothes we wear comes from  places like Vietnam. Was there a war there a while back? I seem to remember...

Um, right. We went to war in Vietnam so we could get cheaper cotton.

 

WTF.

that's not what he said.

Excuse me, but what DID he say exactly then? I suppose we went into Korea because hey, we wanted their cars too, right? Wow, lets make little comments suggesting something but never actually make the effort to argue the point. Whoo @ Laziness.

 

Murmering Beast, you are the typical conspiracy theory idiot that thinks the US Government is somehow ALWAYS trying to get something from someone else. Vyce is totally right when he says you rank up there with Ozymandias or FrankZappaMask because you are just like them: Some ultra-leftist anti-government liberal who connects everything that the American Government does with some sort of evil plot to hurt the weak.

 

To address what chave said about Iraq not being a threat: How many times does one have to say this? WITH SADDAM HUSSEIN STILL IN POWER HE WAS STILL A THREAT TO THE STABILITY OF THE MIDDLE EAST. The guy was a fanatic of the highest order and there is no chance for there to be seperate Palestinian and Israeli states with him around. The guy gave money to terrorism, he was obviously in pursuit of WMDs (As Marney constantly quotes, there was NO debate about this a year ago, and the UN universally agreed that Iraq was either pursing them or already had them). If you don't think that the man would have done everything in his power to stop a Peace from being reached, you're more foolish than I thought.

 

At everyone defaming the US inderdicting everywhere in the world: What about YOUR countries? Have your countries deseated any harsh dictators lately? Have they even DISCUSSED doing this lately? Frankly, I can't see how anyone Europe doesn't care about anyone but themselves. If you make the argument that the US goes everywhere because they are greedy, I'm going to make the counterargument that Europeans are so self-centered that they'd rather keep the status quo than actually try and help anyone. Seriously, when you are protesting to keep a dictator like Saddam Hussein in power because it might mean doing something, what am I supposed to think? No one in Europe has done anything meanful for God knows how long outside of protecting their own holdings (Case in point, France and German had multi-billion dollar holdings with the Iraqis and their oil fields. Do you really think their reasons in Iraq were so pure now?). Remember: The evil can only succeed when good men do nothing, and that's just what Germany and France wanted to do. Is it true? Not necessarily, but it's just as valid as your arguments and beefs against the US.

 

On the Germany/Jew mess, I'm not going to go there. I don't really care about it, and all the "OMGODZ TEH US IZ BEINGZ TEH BADSZ*@#()!" side is trying to use it to divert attention as their arguments on the US = Greed are being shot down. Leave it be and try arguing your point.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

And some of those countries that we've liberated have done really well for themselves as well. The Germans and the French are doing ok are they not? How about Japan?

The Americans have still done pretty well out of those countries

[Guest Powerplay]

And some of those countries that we've liberated have done really well for themselves as well.  The Germans and the French are doing ok are they not?  How about Japan?

The Americans have still done pretty well out of those countries

Congrads, you've completely missed the point. He mentioned those because it was obvious you were trying to suggest that with Vietnam and other such interdictions we went in only to set up puppet government or trade agreements or some other such stuff (Though how one can argue "Hey, we get stuff from Vietnam because we went to war with them" considering the government we went to war against is STILL IN POWER) is directly contradicted by countries such as France and Japan, which often go against what the Americans ask for or have conflicting opinions with us. Just saying "We do well there" doesn't mean a thing. Hey chave, your British: Do you honestly think the reason that "You do well with America" is because you fought us in both the Revolution and the War of 1812?

[Guest Some Guy]

And some of those countries that we've liberated have done really well for themselves as well.  The Germans and the French are doing ok are they not?  How about Japan?

The Americans have still done pretty well out of those countries

Only in the mind of those like you does the fact that AMerica may have gotten anyhtign out of it disregard the fact that those countries have made out far better and that America paid one hell of a price to liberate them such as thousands of dead men, thousands more injured, and billions in forgiven war debt. But we are pure evil and never do anythign to help others.

 

Why is it that you guys can't seem to look for hte good in anything and always go straigh the supposed negative while completely and utterlu ignoring the benifit that any other than America may or may not have recieved?

 

Why is that you guys feel that America should only do things that hurt us and help others and demonize us for helping others and also benifiting from that help in teh long run? It's just good business. You don't make very mnay bad business deals and stay afloat. It is AMerica's goal to stay in business.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

Funny how most of the clothes we wear comes from  places like Vietnam. Was there a war there a while back? I seem to remember...

Um, right. We went to war in Vietnam so we could get cheaper cotton.

 

WTF.

that's not what he said.

Excuse me, but what DID he say exactly then? I suppose we went into Korea because hey, we wanted their cars too, right? Wow, lets make little comments suggesting something but never actually make the effort to argue the point. Whoo @ Laziness.

 

Murmering Beast, you are the typical conspiracy theory idiot that thinks the US Government is somehow ALWAYS trying to get something from someone else. Vyce is totally right when he says you rank up there with Ozymandias or FrankZappaMask because you are just like them: Some ultra-leftist anti-government liberal who connects everything that the American Government does with some sort of evil plot to hurt the weak.

 

To address what chave said about Iraq not being a threat: How many times does one have to say this? WITH SADDAM HUSSEIN STILL IN POWER HE WAS STILL A THREAT TO THE STABILITY OF THE MIDDLE EAST. The guy was a fanatic of the highest order and there is no chance for there to be seperate Palestinian and Israeli states with him around. The guy gave money to terrorism, he was obviously in pursuit of WMDs (As Marney constantly quotes, there was NO debate about this a year ago, and the UN universally agreed that Iraq was either pursing them or already had them). If you don't think that the man would have done everything in his power to stop a Peace from being reached, you're more foolish than I thought.

 

At everyone defaming the US inderdicting everywhere in the world: What about YOUR countries? Have your countries deseated any harsh dictators lately? Have they even DISCUSSED doing this lately? Frankly, I can't see how anyone Europe doesn't care about anyone but themselves. If you make the argument that the US goes everywhere because they are greedy, I'm going to make the counterargument that Europeans are so self-centered that they'd rather keep the status quo than actually try and help anyone. Seriously, when you are protesting to keep a dictator like Saddam Hussein in power because it might mean doing something, what am I supposed to think? No one in Europe has done anything meanful for God knows how long outside of protecting their own holdings (Case in point, France and German had multi-billion dollar holdings with the Iraqis and their oil fields. Do you really think their reasons in Iraq were so pure now?). Remember: The evil can only succeed when good men do nothing, and that's just what Germany and France wanted to do. Is it true? Not necessarily, but it's just as valid as your arguments and beefs against the US.

 

On the Germany/Jew mess, I'm not going to go there. I don't really care about it, and all the "OMGODZ TEH US IZ BEINGZ TEH BADSZ*@#()!" side is trying to use it to divert attention as their arguments on the US = Greed are being shot down. Leave it be and try arguing your point.

Cool, a half-decent response for once.

 

The reason that many Europeans (leaving aside their governments who are no doubt as corrupt as any other in the world, and concentrating on the average citizens) opposed American intervention in Iraq was that it was seen as an American war on a country that had done nothing recently to oppose the states. Hussein may have been a dictator and unco-operative to the states and threatened the stability of their region, but this is no different to many more governments in the world, both now and in the past. The fact that Americans were over-eager to go into Iraq and, seemingly, finish off the last Gulf War rubbed many anti-Americans up the way, and since then the Americans have done nothing to suggest that they were justified to go into Iraq. I don'tthink that the manner in which the US have gone in to Iraq has improved the stability of the Middle East or America's standing in the world.

 

European nations have done many things for the good of the worls that you may be unaware of, just as I'm sure that your country has done much good you're unaware of.

 

I think MB may be suggesting that American involvement in Vietnam was tied in with the recent capitalism in the region, but I might be wrong.

 

Also, you don't have to be a conspiracist to believe that the US government looks after itself above all others. That's common sense...

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

And some of those countries that we've liberated have done really well for themselves as well.  The Germans and the French are doing ok are they not?  How about Japan?

The Americans have still done pretty well out of those countries

Only in the mind of those like you does the fact that AMerica may have gotten anyhtign out of it disregard the fact that those countries have made out far better and that America paid one hell of a price to liberate them such as thousands of dead men, thousands more injured, and billions in forgiven war debt. But we are pure evil and never do anythign to help others.

 

Why is it that you guys can't seem to look for hte good in anything and always go straigh the supposed negative while completely and utterlu ignoring the benifit that any other than America may or may not have recieved?

 

Why is that you guys feel that America should only do things that hurt us and help others and demonize us for helping others and also benifiting from that help in teh long run? It's just good business. You don't make very mnay bad business deals and stay afloat. It is AMerica's goal to stay in business.

I don't dispute that many countries are better off for US intervention, but would the American government be as ready to help out countries if they had less to gain?

 

And if the ultimate goal of the American government is to "stay in business", I feel sorry for your country.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

if the ultimate goal of the American government is to "stay in business", I feel sorry for your country.

To paraphrase Leo McGarry from The West Wing, if your first priority isn't to stay in business, it doesn't matter what your second priority is.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

Incidently, I would like to state that I was in the minority of Europeans who was in favor of goung into Iraq. I'm just playing devils advocate at this point.