Batman SE: DVD rumor, so take it as you may...

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Yes, you can dislike whatever you want JMA. But you said you were a more educated Bat-Fan. You're not.

 

Oh and the Murderer storyline shouldn't concern you anymore then Hush. They're both just comic books. But Murderer had the virtue of being well written, atmosphereic and logical. Hush has none of those things.

 

Oh and seriously, Chuck Dixon's work on Detective is near legendary. I haven't met anyone who knows comics who doesn't respect it.

 

But then again, you don't know comics very well, do you?

[Guest SP-1]

I have to admit it, Zsasz, I love it when you go into super-bat-mode. It really is a sight to behold. One day, you're SO going to be talking about my work.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I have to admit it, Zsasz, I love it when you go into super-bat-mode. It really is a sight to behold. One day, you're SO going to be talking about my work.

No, my friend. One day, I'll be competing with your work.

[Guest JMA]

Yes, you can dislike whatever you want JMA. But you said you were a more educated Bat-Fan. You're not.

I AM a more educated Bat-fan, IMO. I stated that I liked the movies before I was a big Batman fan. I meant educated as in knowing about Batman's COMIC history. In that respect, I am a more educated Batman fan. And one more thing, you don't decide who is educated and who isn't.

 

Oh and the Murderer storyline shouldn't concern you anymore then Hush. They're both just comic books. But Murderer had the virtue of being well written, atmosphereic and logical. Hush has none of those things.

In your opinion, of course. Not in mine. You seem to be trying to force your beliefs on me and insinuating negative things about me when I disagree. Not to mention putting your own spin on things, rather than just telling facts.

 

Oh and seriously, Chuck Dixon's work on Detective is near legendary. I haven't met anyone who knows comics who doesn't respect it.

I have. Chuck tends to put his own beliefs into his work.

 

But then again, you don't know comics very well, do you?

Now you're just trying to get under my skin. Why can't you discuss things maturely?

[Guest SP-1]

I'm not too sure that any work of fiction exists without some of the writer's own beliefs mixed in it. I'm not quite sure where you're going with that one JMA. Of course some of DIxon's beliefs are in there. Some of Rucka's are in his. Some of Bendis's ideas and ideals are in Ultimate Spidey. That's why people write. Of course there are also ideas and ideals in most works that the writer does not always share, but there's a part of someone in their work.

[Guest JMA]

I'm not too sure that any work of fiction exists without some of the writer's own beliefs mixed in it. I'm not quite sure where you're going with that one JMA. Of course some of DIxon's beliefs are in there. Some of Rucka's are in his. Some of Bendis's ideas and ideals are in Ultimate Spidey. That's why people write. Of course there are also ideas and ideals in most works that the writer does not always share, but there's a part of someone in their work.

Of course. But some people put a little TOO much of their beliefs in their writing. It doesn't always make them bad writers, but it is visible. I know Mark Millar is always getting heat on the DCMB for putting too much of his beliefs in his work. Which isn't to say I agree with them, I'm just using it as an example.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

1. You may be educated in history, but your tastes need to catch up. This is like a food critic debating with someone who only goes to McDonald's. I'm trying to broaden your horizons beyond "OMG! JIM LEE IZ DA BEST YO!"

 

2. I'm not forcing my beliefs on you. I'm echoing what I hear everywhere. Jim Lee's art lacks the kind of atmosphere I want to see in Batman. That isn't a knock, this is simple observation. Jim Lee uses complex detail while ideally the art should be more impressionistic, dark, and shadowy. Plus, I've yet to see any kind of logic in Hush yet. You yourself said it was Russo-esque. IT'S JUST ONE SWERVE AFTER ANOTHER.

 

3. Chuck is alos quite brilliant at taking characters who NO ONE gives a shit about and giving them complex emotions and motivations. He MADE the Bat Supporting Cast and your WEAK ASS little "he puts his beliefs in his stories" doesn't change that. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about you novice. Turn the computer off and pick up some comics. LEARN THE SUBJECT BEFORE YOU DEBATE IT. I'm sick of your bullshit.

 

Also: Dixon had a run on Detective Comics that was so well recieved that until the day he left for Crossgen he was given free reign in the Bat-Universe. And he never really misstepped.

 

4. Because my mother knows more about Batman then you do. And that's not hyperbole.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Let me clarify a little more about Dixon. He basically turned NIGHTWING, ROBIN, and BIRDS OF PREY into titles with solid fanbases. He turned shit into gold 3 straight times.

[Guest JMA]

1. You may be educated in history, but your tastes need to catch up. This is like a food critic debating with someone who only goes to McDonald's. I'm trying to broaden your horizons beyond "OMG! JIM LEE IZ DA BEST YO!"

I in no way think Jim Lee is "DA BEST, YO!" Mazzuchelli, IMO, is the best. He did the art on Year One (my favorite Bat-story ever). Jim Lee's art is great, don't get me wrong, but I much prefer people like Mazzuchelli and Perez.

 

3. Chuck is alos quite brilliant at taking characters who NO ONE gives a shit about and giving them complex emotions and motivations. He MADE the Bat Supporting Cast and your WEAK ASS little "he puts his beliefs in his stories" doesn't change that. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about you novice. Turn the computer off and pick up soem comics. LEARN THE SUBJECT BEFORE YOU DEBATE IT. I'm sick of your bullshit.

 

Once again, why should I care if you believe I "don't know what the fuck I'm talking about"? Why should your perception of who I am change my own perception? I would be happy to discuss this if only YOU DIDN'T TRY TO FUCKING INSULT ME ALL THE TIME. Mmm, caps are fun, aren't they? And I assure you, I have plenty of comics. It's painfully obvious you have no interest in discussion, only petty name calling. You really need to grow up.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

1. I know what Mazzuchelli did. I don't think it's very fair to declare him the best ever on the basis of one project either. Best Batman art would probobly have to go to Neal Adams, though I have a personal soft spot for Breyfogle.

 

2. So you ignore the legit points I make and focus on the fact that I was a little harsh with you. That's as clear as a concession about Chuck Dixon as I need.

 

Thanks pal.

[Guest JMA]

1. I know what Mazzuchelli did. I don't think it's very fair to declare him the best ever on the basis of one project either. Best Batman art would probobly have to go to Neal Adams, though I have a personal soft spot for Breyfogle.

 

2. So you ignore the legit points I make and focus on the fact that I was a little harsh with you. That's as clear as a concession about Chuck Dixon as I need.

 

Thanks pal.

I admit, you do have some legitimate points for debate. And I would be happy to do that with you. You just need to stop randomly throwing insults my way. Don't take offence to this, but it seems like you just want to start something with me, rather than discussing the subject at hand, which is Batman.

[ArkhamGlobe 0]

Zsasz, that's a very intriguing reading of Batman Returns, and one I hadn't really thought about. I've always thought it to be a rather underrated film, due to the fact that I could detect some subtext in it, but I always interpreted it as being a film about loneliness and personal rejection in many ways and on many levels. Granted, it's been years since I've last seen the film, but your analysis has made me want to rewatch it. I'll probably do that in the next couple of days.

[Guest SP-1]

Personally, I enjoy Lee's work. But then the art is more of a backseat thing to me. It's the writer in me, I suppose. Lee's Lois Lane is HOT, though. You know . . . as hot as a fictional character can be . . .

 

 

And I still fail to see why someone's beliefs being in their work is such a big thing. Not everyone's going to agree and they all have a right to inject their individual viewpoints into the story, so long as they don't radically change the character to fit them needlessly.

[MrRant 0]

The real question is.... who will be the first to run to teacher complaining that the other is calling them names or being mean?

 

JMA or Zsasz?

[Guest JMA]

The real question is.... who will be the first to run to teacher complaining that the other is calling them names or being mean?

 

JMA or Zsasz?

Heh.

[Guest JMA]

Personally, I enjoy Lee's work. But then the art is more of a backseat thing to me. It's the writer in me, I suppose. Lee's Lois Lane is HOT, though. You know . . . as hot as a fictional character can be . . .

 

 

And I still fail to see why someone's beliefs being in their work is such a big thing. Not everyone's going to agree and they all have a right to inject their individual viewpoints into the story, so long as they don't radically change the character to fit them needlessly.

I enjoy Lee's Lois very much. I like that he went with a sexier version of her animated design. Incidently, all of the women he draws are hot (yes, even Leslie Thompkins).

 

I mostly didn't like what he did in Nightwing and Green Arrow. I feel Dixon never really liked Ollie, and that he wanted to push his beliefs through Dick. I much prefer Devin Grayson's run.

[Guest SP-1]

I really enjoyed what Grayson did with Dick and Bruce on her initial GOTHAM KNIGHTS run. The issue where a letter that Dick wrote to Bruce is peppered throughout stands out as one of my favorites. Along with the one where Hugo Strange shows up at the Mansion dressed in THE costume and Dick f'ing wails on him. Made me like Nightwing a little more.

[Guest JMA]

I liked how she wrote Dick and Helena sleeping together (I forget which series, but it was before her Nightwing run). If only because of the ways Baps is taking it. I like her not-so-subtle comments towards Helena.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Zsasz, that's a very intriguing reading of Batman Returns, and one I hadn't really thought about. I've always thought it to be a rather underrated film, due to the fact that I could detect some subtext in it, but I always interpreted it as being a film about loneliness and personal rejection in many ways and on many levels. Granted, it's been years since I've last seen the film, but your analysis has made me want to rewatch it. I'll probably do that in the next couple of days.

I think the main problem with BATMAN RETURNS is the emotions it played on are not the kind one expects to find in an action/comic film. It delas with pity, loss, duality (Hence, TWO villains), and repression a lot more then typical action staples like vengeance, anger, fear, and heroism. I also think the production design is much more balanced in BATMAN RETURNS. In the original, the 30's gangster style clashed with Brutalist architecture, while in the second everything had a very even Gothic look.