Trish starts to use Austin's moves

[Guest Ascalon]

Sapp is over cause he knocks people the fuck out.

 

 

 

Yup.

 

 

And too bad women's division is a novelty act, it has so much potential.

[Guest Lilly]

I don't think it's fair to say that Trish is more over than people like Dreamer. Trish is on damn near every show and constantly gets wins and is made to look good.

Actually Trish loses alot more then she wins. Her win-lose TV record for the year is 12-17. Winning Percentage below of Victoria, Ivory, Molly and Jazz. Which is bizarre considering how she should be considered #1 because she's the most over. Plus her track record of getting others over is second to none. She made Jazz look like a legit bad ass by bumping like hell for her and made a rookie Victoria become a real good chacter. So the idea of how she always wins is complete Bull but don't get the facts get in the way of your close minded observation.

 

Reading this thread makes me hate the interenet. It reassures all the stereotyes of the internet fan. No wonder so many wrestlers have had it with us. You guys are embarassing.

 

Seeing the spot in question, I wonder what's the big fuckin deal. She went to do her move, Molly blocked it and they hit a very impressive spike powerdriver. Yet only Canadian Chick I've seen on the Raw thread gave props to Trish for taking a innovative pretty hard looking powerbomb bump off the second turnbuckle. The rest of you losers all site there like the fat comic book guy shouting BOTCHED!. How do we know that the move is meant for that to allow Molly to grab her legs and hold her to set up the finish.

 

But then again this is the same board that yelled out 5star match for Brock vs. Kurt. A match that had a much more obvious missed spot (f5 to bulldog) and broke the major rule of dont' repeat the move which they did 20 seconds later. But everyone here has blinders on and labels 5 star! If the shoe was on the other foot or the other gender in there and they had a gret match but did one obvious dumb move all you guys would be talking about is the mistake. Fuckin hypocritical.

 

I like Divas matches, I like them alot. I like the change of pace and different style to it. (Yes I actually like diversity in my wrestling!) I LIKE that there matches have more imagination then needing a ref bump ever main match or a low blow or a belt shot. You make fun of the women "trying". Personally I'd rather have these girls out there giving there all, and they seem to be so full of pride even if their skill level doesn't match up to their heart. I'd rather see them then more "talented" men going out there giving a half assed effort.

[KTID 0]

What a load of shit!

[Guest Coffey]

I didn't see anyone give the Angle/Brock match five star. I did see several people complain about the botch spot and returning to the same spot afterwards.

 

12-17 = constantly gets wins. Yes, she also constantly gets losses, but at least she is seen.

 

You like the diva matches. Good for you. Too bad most of us want good wrestling.

[AndrewTS 0]

Lilly: Don't know what spot you're talking about--I assume you mean last Raw which I didn't see.

 

But last week Molly almost botched two moves in a row, a side slam that almost was botched, and a shoulderbreaker that almost ended up like a Tombstone that would have probably dropped Trish on her head. This is Molly mind you, the best wrestler in the entire fed, and I like her, but that was scary to watch.

[Guest deadbeater]

Geez, Golberg slipped on the way to the ring, yet I see no extensive heat from that, not even among Goldberg haters...

 

You guys got an 5000x electron microsrope on women matches you don't apply on the men. Of course all you are going to see are flaws.

 

I wrote of the almost-Tombstone. Trish was struggling on both moves that were allegedly botched, which is how a real fight is supposed to look like. Yet when Gail and Molly this past week did the combo cutter/powerbomb on Trish, you guys go 'ho hum'. What do you want, a Skytwister Spanish Fly?

 

Now let me ask you: how many male wrestlers would have continued to follow through to a tombstone? A lot of them even you have to admit. Steiner did what looked like a Tiger Driver 91 on Jericho during the three-way match between Jericho, Booker T and RVD back on November 18 2002 Raw. I am certain that was planned, not. Yet, there was little coverage of that.

 

Oh, and another thing..Who in the blue hell corner of the Internet voted for Sable over Molly in the Internet Babe of the Year Contest?

[CanadianChick 0]

Deadbeater: WWE always markets Sable as 'sexy' and she's constantly in revealing clothes. Molly isn't portrayed like that at all. Hell, you can even tell that when you read the WWE headline: "In today's voting, the sexy Sable takes on Molly."

 

And aren't some of those contests rigged? Or is that just polls?

[Guest Coffey]

What do you want?

I want to watch a match, where I don't have to think "how long until something goes wrong?" When I watch the women, I know that something is going to go wrong. Just like when I watch Steiner or Nash.

 

The women in the WWE are way too...I can't even explain it. For something that is supposed to be fake, they make it look too fake. They seem to move in slow motion. You see what moves are going to happen a mile away. Their transition is terrible.

 

A botched spot kills a match for me. It's part of the reason why I thought the last Angle/Lesnar match was such a let down.

 

Yay, the women did a double team move. Pardon me if I don't jizz myself cause they did something new. Too bad they did it after a botched spot, and Gail almost didn't do it right either.

[Guest Lilly]

But what consists of a botch spot. Is doing a sunset flip and having a slight double clutching the guy to get him down. Is that a botched spot. If so majority of that move would be considered messed up by the men. But most of us (hopefully) gives a bit of lee-way. I know I do with the men.

 

If you look closely enough and are jadded enough you can see slight mess ups in almost any match that has actual movement (ie not 2 big slugs throwing soupbones). Rey Mysterio has shaky parts through out lots of his matches, EVEN with the benifit of 2 day edits before Smackdown goes on the air. But we (me included, cause I'm not a hypocrite) give him some benefit of the doubt about it. Hello how about when the west coast pop landed Matt right on his head. Speaking of Matt how about when his face got as bloodied as I've ever seen vs. Benoit. Is Benoit unsafe?

 

I'm not talking about just this board or forum. I'm talking the internet as a whole. Deadbeater 100% right the women seem to have this giant magnifine glass on them waiting for them to slip (hell some even admit it) so people scream Botched!, no matter how slight it is. But the same maginfine glass on Mysterio (slipping off the apron on summerslam Heat Remember!) and you know what all of a sudden you won't enjoy his matches either.

 

As for Angle-Lesner reading the Summerslam recap thread majority here were giving them 4's and 5's and I counted just a few people afterwards commenting on "How they don't like the net" because people give high star ratings for names they like and not nesssesary how good their match was.

 

All I know if the women match got the Boring chants that Jericho-Christian got it would be a "sign" as unover the women are. But it was Jericho and Christian so it must have been those lame fans fault. Once again double standard with the same scenrio

 

By the way speaking on something earlier, Trish's selling is one of the best in the fed. Male or Female, period. I've seen too many guys in Benoit's crossface (Cena definitely comes to mind) that looks like they were in mild discomfort. When Jazz hooks the STF on Trish she sells it like it's no body buisiness, with facial expressions and sounds of pain. But of course when Benoit does it he's a master in selling, Trish does it we make jokes about.

 

And these guys I've mentioned like Benoit , Jericho, Christian and Angle. I'm huge fans of. I just get annoyed when there fans put blinders up for them and rips on the girls.

[Guest deadbeater]

I am sorry that you are disenchanted Lilly.

 

Botched spots are supposed to happen in real fights, or simulations of them. Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon has very amusing botches in the fight scenes, with Michelle Yeoh dropping that weapon.

 

If one fights defensively, she has to make the other person's offense look not only bad but counterproductive. Molly blocked the Stratusphere, deliberately making Trish look bad in the process. Molly took the move enough times, so she now expects it. Shouldn't she be given credit for figuring out how to block and counter it decisively? If a guy did such a thing, you call that brilliant scouting.

 

Trish now has to assume that her Stratusphere will be blocked and will have to do another move when that happens. That is how a gritty fight is supposed to work if it is done right. Otherwise it will be like Matrix Reloaded: ballet but not engaging.

 

If a move is botched, don't dwell on it; look like you mean to botch it.

 

What I want in matches are hot stretches and hot hot endings. I was there when Marty Janetty introduced the Tamikaze to the United States in ECW. He fought against a jobber, and the match, well, sucked. The ECW fans let them know it. But when he hit the move to end the match, the crowd erupted to the famous 'ECW' chant. Marty picked up the kid and thanked him for taking the move.

 

Molly losing the BOTY contest this early is very bad in two ways: if the contest isn't rigged, then it reinforces the notion that Internet watchers are more into porn than on wrestling talent, and why WWE should listen to IWC if that is so; or if it is rigged, then what is WWE saying about the belt?

Edited September 4, 2003 by deadbeater

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

How did I miss the Sapp/Hogan part??

 

Sapp is over in Japan because of a)His match with Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera which is considered to be one of the top 10 mma fights of all time, b) His win(s) over Ernesto Hoost, a man whom many consider to be the greatest kickboxer ever, and c) His size and persona (and some say his colour). The Japanese are like Americans in that they love the freak show - the charismatic big guys. They appreciate the work but they also appreciate the specticle.

 

I bet you that per capita, the men botch MUCH less spots than the women.

[Guest deadbeater]

But I bet women don't do Shockmaster ring entrances and exits as much as men do.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

What does that have to do with anything?

[Guest deadbeater]

It means that you protect the guys more tenaciously than figure skating judges protecting the stars.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

No, it means that you completely ignored my point. Men have a lot more matches than women, law of averages states that there's going to be mistakes once and a while. With the Women there's a higher degree of failure as it seems almost every match they have there's a botched spot or mistimed move. Are there plenty of bad male wrestlers on the roster? Of course, I can't stand La Rez - they're horrible. But the thing is, they -the worst male wrestlers- are just as good as the best womens wrestler in the WWE.

 

THIS is "protecting":

 

"Botched spots are supposed to happen in real fights, or simulations of them"

 

I have a standard - it's actually a pretty low standard when compared to what it could be - the women do not live up to that standard. When I watch womens matches (which I can't any more) I see the business being exposed in almost every single move. At least the greenbeans from Ohio have their Hiptoss, Armdrag, Body Slam, Dropkick down. Besides, I'm hard on the guys all the time it just so happens that in this thread (about Trish and womens wrestling) I am hard on the women... cough.

[Guest deadbeater]

I am not saying that about botched spots to protecting the women. WWE fights are supposed to be more realistic. A fight that is supposed to be realistic has more 'mistakes' in it, unless it involves God. Look a a boxing match, the so-called sweet science. Look closely at the multitude of slips on canvas, strikes missed badly, low blows, accidental head butts, stops for clutching, and so on. If anything, I want more of such things to happen during a more choreographed wrestling match.

 

You want ballet, say you want ballet. A fight realistically depicted is supposed to be messy, chaotic, stumbling, ugly to watch. It is not just a TV-broadcast triumphant march into a town ; it also includes bombing, suicidal or otherwise, at every step; accidental shooting, ambushes and such. You just want the triumphant marches.

 

Manami Toyota botch more spots in a single match than a whole circuit does in a week. Yet her matches get four stars consistently. Why? Because of her impossible to maintain degree of difficulty.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

WWE fights are supposed to look more realistic? So the Widows Peak is realistic? The Molly-go-Round is realistic? The Stratusphere is realistic? You can't just pick and choose when to be "real", you either do it all or do none of it. So yes, you are protecting the womens mistakes. If I wanted real I'd watch MMA, which I do. Wrestling is an extention of the real - where one suspends disbelief to become invested into the story of the match. The women break that suspension almost every time they do a move by setting up their shots too long in advance or by botching a spot and ruining whatever rhythm or pace they had going for them.

 

What does Manami Toyota have to do with anything?

[Guest deadbeater]

You joshi fans treat her like a goddess. And she probably is the closest thing to godhood on Earth. But she, as a human, makes mistakes too. Manami can slip on the ropes, two consecutive times in a match, and the writers go, "Oh well, even the best ones make mistakes." Trish does a similar slip once and those same writers go, "Aha!! You see!! WWE women sucks!! -5 stars for the match!!!"