CZW Redifined

[Guest Jay Z. Hollywood]

Okay, let's go over the positives:

 

- Chris motherfucking Hero is back, which everyone NEVER thought would happen, and him beating Hatred probably got a great reaction

 

-Rave finally got some semblance of a push by making the finals of this tourney and beating a major international star, clean or not.

 

-Alex Shelley and Jimmy Jacobs are coming in very soon.

 

-Any new junior (Angel Dust?) is cool with me. And Special K, against each other, can tear the house down if given enough time.

 

The Negatives

 

-Acid winning the tourney. While Gage would have been an even worse choice (totally defeats the purpose of "redefining" the belt, buries the importance of every other title except the world one in his promos) but people know that Acid is a Zandig favorite, and will always have a fucked-up title reign, with screwy finishes and non-jobs and non-defenses galore. Rave, Flash, Mamaluke all would have been better choices.

 

-The finish, as SM said. I have no idea why Zandig thought that "not taping it" would get around the AC's rules. They mishandled this really badly, chastising their fans for low gates (despite buying plenty of the tapes, which is a much bigger revenue source for CZW) and then getting wishy-washy on it. Then they delivered this copout which they couldn't deliver.

 

 

I'm not as pessimistic as SM is, but it is true. COD5 is in three months, and they have nothing built up. If Mondo isn't back by then, they are fucked, because Messiah vs. Mondo has been practically set in stone as the ME since February. There are no other overrriding angles on this show. Some of the obvious stuff (Sonjay/B-Boy/Ruckus) hasn't even been hinted at, and the rest of the roster is directionless. They have to pull something huge together, or COD5 could be a disaster they'll never recover from.

[Sandman9000 0]

I know I came off as pessimistic as shit (well, it's also because i am in real life), but it's because I like CZW, and I want to see this company doing well. And I look on the fan board and I see nothing but negativity and bitching and the dreaded phase "I'm never going to see another CZW show," and that their complains actually have some legitimate background, and it just makes me wonder what the hell is going on with CZW at times.

 

I want to do the company do well, but to see themselves shoot themselves in the foot like this, it hurts. The first 2/3's, 3/4's of the show could have been SOTY quality, but the last part just pulls everything down into the gutter, and the last thing a person sees is what sticks to their mind the strongest.

[ulfistgut 0]

Firstly the show has the following matches I'm looking forward to seeing : Hatred/Hero, Mamaluke/Acid, Acid/Hero, Rave/KaShin, Gage/Acid/Rave, Fraizer/Deranged. That's quite a few matches. Plus Hero is back, Shelly and Jacobs are coming and the addition of a Special K member who will feud with another Special K member (thus producing matches not seen yet in ROH, a good move by CZW).

 

I'm not too fussed about Acid holding the belt. He's a damm good wrestler, plus he could enter a program with B-Boy or Rave which would produce some nice matches. Or, simply have the Backseats drop the tag belts and then Acid can just put on lots of good singles matches.

 

The suspension was an angle. In the past many main events have been used as an angle as opposed to a full match. CZW could have just had a beatdown and a table bump, but given what was promiced they descided to do something more violent. This may have put people off, but I see it as CZW trying to give their fans what they want in a restricted enviroment.

 

Show looks darn good, and has many possibilities for the future. In regards to COD they do have plenty of TV time to do promos/vingettes to build to it.

[Guest trickstyle_360]

The show sounds REALLY good. It was messed up by the Acid win and the angle at the end. Here's what happened before the ironman 3-way:

 

Now for the controversy...

 

As the match was ready to start...and Trent Acid's music played...suddenly everything stopped. Announcer Robby Mireno made an excuse to the crowd, the ring was swept (it didn't need sweeping), and another intermission took place. Without being too descriptive, let's just say that a certain wrestler was threatening to "lose his smile" backstage, which was the cause of the delay. Part of the problem was that many people in the crowd figured this fact out, a fact which wasn't helped by a member of the State Athletic Commission verbally confirming their suspicions.

 

A sizable section of the crowd were furious, beginning when Acid got the two quick pinfalls. After the bell rang, they began angrily booing and audibly chanted "Do the job" and "Triple H" (implying that he wouldn't do jobs) at Acid.

[Sandman9000 0]

I'm guessing Rave was supposed to go over, or at least tie Acid possibly.

 

I'm guessing Acid/Rave for next month, which will allow Acid to bury Rave for good.

[Nevermortal 0]

Do you think that maybe Kashmere was supposed to win, but pulled out due to the injury?

 

Is the injury even legit?

[Sandman9000 0]

Injury's legit as far as I know, Mike Johnson over at 1bob said that Kashmere went to the hospital to have a knot on his head checked out.

[LucharesuFan619 0]

As was stated, they might as well have pissed on a picture of the Twin Towers if they're going to have something like what went down occur a few hours after doing a tribute. It's ridiculous.

[Guest Joe Mama]

As was stated, they might as well have pissed on a picture of the Twin Towers if they're going to have something like what went down occur a few hours after doing a tribute. It's ridiculous.

would you shut the fuck up, thats easily the dumbest thing i have ever seen you post, and you have posted some pretty dumb things before. go back to cutting and pasting "news" because your opinion means dick.

[Nevermortal 0]

What does a wrestling angle have to do with a 9-11 tribute?

 

Its not like they went out and burned a flag. They did something (albeit a little disturbing) 'ultraviolent' that they've been doing for years now.

 

Shut the fuck up, Barber.

[LucharesuFan619 0]

As was stated, they might as well have pissed on a picture of the Twin Towers if they're going to have something like what went down occur a few hours after doing a tribute. It's ridiculous.

would you shut the fuck up, thats easily the dumbest thing i have ever seen you post, and you have posted some pretty dumb things before. go back to cutting and pasting "news" because your opinion means dick.

Your intellectuality is quite impressive. I hate you, too.

 

 

"What does a wrestling angle have to do with a 9-11 tribute?

 

Its not like they went out and burned a flag. They did something (albeit a little disturbing) 'ultraviolent' that they've been doing for years now.

 

Shut the fuck up, Barber."

 

Just ask those on DVDR. I'm not the only one. Go bitch at them, too. I know you won't though, because you'll get punked the fuck out. Nah, instead let's just all team up on Barber, even though his logic actually makes sense.

Edited September 14, 2003 by LucharesuFan619

[bob_barron 0]

Of course Barber decides to respond with insults and instead of actually backing up his points.

 

So because they did a tribute to 9/11 means they have to be overly sensitive the whole night?

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

. Nah, instead let's just all team up on Barber, even though his logic actually makes sense.

No it doesnt, your just being a dick, as usual

[Guest Joe Mama]

Just ask those on DVDR. I'm not the only one. Go bitch at them, too. I know you won't though, because you'll get punked the fuck out like the cunt that you are. Nah, instead let's just all team up on Barber, even though his logic actually makes sense.

Well if some random guy said it on the DVDR board then it must be true! Think for yourself kid and then what you say might actually carry some weight.

You get "punked out" on the DVDR board all the time, i dont know why you would even bring that up. Listen Spock, your logic sucks and you have no real arguement on this issue other then to once again bash CZW.

[LucharesuFan619 0]

Of course Barber decides to respond with insults and instead of actually backing up his points.

 

So because they did a tribute to 9/11 means they have to be overly sensitive the whole night?

Where did I respond with insults? Ooops...I know where....I don't.

 

When you're doing a tribute for 9/11, you don't have a guy be crucified with hooks as if he's Jesus Christ on the cross just a few hours later. Is it a fact that you don't do that? Of course not. There's no book of rationality that dictates what is polite and not polite in a situation like this. It's common sense that dictates it. I've never thought of Zandig as being impolite, irrational, or anything like that whenever I've talked to him and instead he's always been quite cordial, but his booking last night definitely seems to fall into the category of thoughtlessness.

[Guest Joe Mama]

Where did I respond with insults? Ooops...I know where....I don't.

you called some one a cunt, you've since edited your post but it was originally in there

stop lieing

[Nevermortal 0]

As was stated, they might as well have pissed on a picture of the Twin Towers if they're going to have something like what went down occur a few hours after doing a tribute. It's ridiculous.

would you shut the fuck up, thats easily the dumbest thing i have ever seen you post, and you have posted some pretty dumb things before. go back to cutting and pasting "news" because your opinion means dick.

Your intellectuality is quite impressive. I hate you, too.

 

 

"What does a wrestling angle have to do with a 9-11 tribute?

 

Its not like they went out and burned a flag. They did something (albeit a little disturbing) 'ultraviolent' that they've been doing for years now.

 

Shut the fuck up, Barber."

 

Just ask those on DVDR. I'm not the only one. Go bitch at them, too. I know you won't though, because you'll get punked the fuck out. Nah, instead let's just all team up on Barber, even though his logic actually makes sense.

That post officially makes no sense.

 

Not ONCE did I connect the beginning tribute to the ending angle. NOT ONCE. Obviously, you, due to your absolutely whacko view of life, did. The tribute was an out of character occurance. The ending angle definitely wasn't. Not to mention the incidents had NOTHING to do with one another. They're at two total opposite sides of the spectrum.

 

First off, he wasn't 'hanging like Jesus Christ'. Did Jesus Christ get hung from meathooks? No. He was crucified. Zandig was not crucified. He was doing a stunt that the photographer (Whacks) and himself had done in the past (see the Lobo angle at the beginning of Cage of Death IV).

 

Your argument (really dumb, and yet another jab at a promotion you obviously can't stand) IS BULLSHIT, and it was just an excuse to find something negative about CZW.

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

Where did I respond with insults? Ooops...I know where....I don't.

 

When you're doing a tribute for 9/11, you don't have a guy be crucified with hooks as if he's Jesus Christ on the cross just a few hours later. Is it a fact that you don't do that? Of course not. There's no book of rationality that dictates what is polite and not polite in a situation like this. It's common sense that dictates it. I've never thought of Zandig as being impolite, irrational, or anything like that whenever I've talked to him and instead he's always been quite cordial, but his booking last night definitely seems to fall into the category of thoughtlessness.

I saw the cunt aswell, Joe.

 

As for you bitching like a child, about Zandig, its a WRESTLING SHOW. They can do what they like.

 

Although not caving into Acid's tantrum would have been nice

[Guest Joe Mama]

When you're doing a tribute for 9/11, you don't have a guy be crucified with hooks as if he's Jesus Christ on the cross

Have you even seen the pictures? Because I know when I first saw Zandig being hung on the hooks the first thing I thought was how Christ-like he looked

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

Actually, In some weird parallel universe, where people actually give two fucks what he thinks, and it had been Messiah up there, he Might........might, have had a point

[EMAXSAUN 0]

There are pictures from the hanging at brutalbutchershoppe.com, they are fucking disturbing.

 

everyone said that the show was good, except for the angle and trent winning.

 

it is supossed to be redefined and trent fucking wins? that pissed off the fans. and from what i have heard the angle at the end was so disturbing that many fans said it was the most disturbing thing to take place in viking hall, and some female fans literally got sick. this is going to make czw's attendance drop.

 

great czw drew 400 for this show. next show will draw less because of the shit that went down at redefined. czw's booking is sometimes retarded. redefined was a make or break show for them, and it fell in the middle. suposedly the wrestling was good, but retarded booking and disturbing shit aren't going to make the fans want to come back for more.

 

its funny how czw drew 400, and at the last show in viking hall it was 250-300. but when xpw was drawing those numbers everyone shit on them. but here the czw fans are saying, "ooooo the attendance doesnt matter, its the wrestling that counts." well, this is the same thing all the xpw fans were saying when xpw drew 400, but czw fans were like oh 400 sucks. well eat your fucking words.

[Guest Jay Z. Hollywood]

I really don't remember XPW drawing over 400 after Hostile Takeover, but then again I wasn't following XPW's attendance figures until they took that nasty drop into the 100's.

 

There's no doubt though, that CZW is in trouble. And it is 100% entirely because of their booking, because the wrestling quality has improved 10x from COD4 last year.

 

What irks me is that every time CZW is on the verge of greatness, they fuck it up, the most prominent examples being this show and BOTB3 (AJ jobbing in round 1)

 

That said, this show is really intriguing to me, and I'm definitely ordering it and writing up a review for TSM.

[Nevermortal 0]

Eric Loy, CZW Staff Dude on The Acid Situation:

 

I wasn't at the show, but from everyone I've talked to, the whole "incident" backstage was merely Trent, Gage, and Rave not being ready for their match yet. They were rushed and were still putting it together when the show was ready to start again. They needed a little more time to go over some things, so that's why Trent's music stopped and Mireno stalled.

 

Everything about Trent not wanting to take the fall is ridiculous, especially for those who know Trent and how he handles himself. In his entire career, he has NEVER complained about doing the job for someone -- and what makes it even more ridiculous is that he was always scheduled to go over in the tournament.

 

Since when did CZW fans become Oliver Stone disciples?

 

All Trent has done in the past few months is put over guys. He lost to Mondo in an Iron Man title match, put over Sonjay in Best of the Best, lost to Homicide, and this feud with Ian Knoxx & Adam Flash is seemingly to put them over for the tag team titles. Last time I checked, Trent was still one of the top guys in the company, so where is the problem in him leading the redefinition of the Iron Man title?

 

Can't anyone just enjoy wrestling anymore? Will anything satisfy anyone anymore?

[Guest Jay Z. Hollywood]

Loy does have a point. Sometimes fans overanalyze this stuff. I personally don't have a problem with Trent winning. I'm a huge BSB fan. I would have preferred Rave, but as long as Gage didn't win it's cool with me.

[Nevermortal 0]

I agree. I don't have a problem with Trent winning, but now I'm for certain that B-Boy was probably going over until he pulled out, based on the fact that Messiah said that the HI-V owned all the belts besides the Jr. Heavyweight after Zandig was hung.

[LucharesuFan619 0]

The tribute was an out of character occurance. The ending angle definitely wasn't. Not to mention the incidents had NOTHING to do with one another. They're at two total opposite sides of the spectrum.

 

First off, he wasn't 'hanging like Jesus Christ'. Did Jesus Christ get hung from meathooks? No. He was crucified. Zandig was not crucified. He was doing a stunt that the photographer (Whacks) and himself had done in the past (see the Lobo angle at the beginning of Cage of Death IV).

 

Your argument (really dumb, and yet another jab at a promotion you obviously can't stand) IS BULLSHIT, and it was just an excuse to find something negative about CZW.

I'm well aware of what happened at COD4. I have the tape, like hopefully everyone else does here who is a fan of indy wrestling.

 

"Not ONCE did I connect the beginning tribute to the ending angle. NOT ONCE."

 

Did I say that you did?

 

"The tribute was an out of character occurance. The ending angle definitely wasn't. Not to mention the incidents had NOTHING to do with one another. They're at two total opposite sides of the spectrum."

 

It's obvious that it was out of character. That doesn't make it right, though. Remember Debra teasing someone with her puppies on Owen is RAW? Again, nobody can say concretely whether something like that or this is right or wrong. However, people can have opinions. I think that what was done in CZW was very distasteful. I stated my opinion quite politely in my first reply and I didn't get that same respect.

 

Obviously Zandig was hung by meat hooks and obviously JC wasn't. However, the connection is still there. In both cases, they were meant to be crucified. Hi-V has been feuding with Zandig and this was their way of turning the heat up a notch. Zandig was lifted above the ground and hung with sharp objects in his skin that supported him. In the Bible, had the nails not been used, JC would've fallen off of the cross. So, the connection is most definitely there.

 

Was it tasteful? I don't think so, but my opinion isn't fact. Was there a connection that one could make between the two incidents without stretching all that far? Yes, there was.

[PsychoDriver 0]

What's the beef again? I thought It looked like a damn good show (Granted I would have rather Rave had won but it doesn't matter) and I can't wait for the tape to get here.

[Sandman9000 0]

Obviously Zandig was hung by meat hooks and obviously JC wasn't. However, the connection is still there. In both cases, they were meant to be crucified. Hi-V has been feuding with Zandig and this was their way of turning the heat up a notch. Zandig was lifted above the ground and hung with sharp objects in his skin that supported him. In the Bible, had the nails not been used, JC would've fallen off of the cross. So, the connection is most definitely there.

Aside from that both Christ and Zandig were suspended off the ground by sharp objects, there is no connection. The way they were impaled and suspended is different, the reasons for their suspensions is different.

 

Zandig was not even crucified. His arms are not even involved in his hanging. Again, what he went through was called a "suspension," and WHACKS, the CZW photographer, and other performance artists have done it before. The fans wanted to see WHACKS do such a suspension at COD4, and Zandig took it instead. And for whatever reason, they bait-and-switched the fans at Redefined and had Zandig suspended again.

 

Zandig was not implied to be a martyr. It was an angle designed to get HIV more over as heels, and was promoted initally as a way to try and get more fans into Viking Hall, one that looks like it has backfired horribly.

 

Essentially Barber, you're trying to make a connection where there simply isn't one. That both Zandig and Christ were hung off the ground by sharp objects isn't strong enough to support your argument. I could say that anyone who was lynched had a similar connection to Christ since both died by hanging off the ground, but I would be wrong.

 

And as for your "taking a piss on a picture of the Twin Towers" comment, I think everyone here, including yourself, can agree that comment was way out of line.

[EMAXSAUN 0]

It could be possible that there is some kind of connection considering that the Messiah is the top heel in the HI V.

[Guest Devin]

I honestly don't understand why everyone is bitching and acting like this is the beginning of the end for CZW.

 

1. Anyone who honestly believed they were putting on a deathmatch in Philadelphia, is just plain stupid.

 

2. Loy pretty much summed up my thoughts on why Acid winning is a good idea. The guy is one of the best guys in the company, and is constantly putting others over. He's about to lose the tag straps, and will be putting Rave over for the title as well, in the near future.

 

3. If B-Boy wouldn't have had to back out of the show due to family circumstances, he would have been the won winning. If Kashmere wouldn't have been injured, it would have been the BSB vs. Rave in the finals, which would have done an amazing job of putting Rave over. Not only that, it would have done a better job of "redefining" the title, without Gage being involved in the finals. But due to circumstances beyond their control, things turned out the way they did. And they put on a fucking awesome tournament, despite all the troubles that came their way (B-Boy, Homicide, Mafia, Kashmere).

 

4. They need the HI V holding all the titles, in order to solidify the fact that they have control over CZW. People have been cheering for the HI V, and this is their way of fixing that.

 

5. Jimmy Rave just fucking won a match against Kendo Ka Shin, AJPW's Junior Champ. How the hell can people complain about him not getting a push? If they would have blown the entire load in one night, and gave him the title, it wouldn't mean near as much. Let them build to that, and have him beat Acid one on one, when it will mean that much more.

 

6. You got the return of Chris mutherfucking Hero, the debut of Angel Dust, the announcement of Jimmy Jacobs and Alex Shelley for the next show, and CM Punk backstage.