AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 We're not trying to gang up on Franchise, but it comes down to this... Guys like Matt and Cena now, or Rock and Austin before they got big--there were fairly obvious, tangible reasons to think they'd become huge stars. There's nothing really tangible here. You like O'Haire and hope he becomes successful. That's okay, and I can accept that. Trying to convince us of the same isn't going to be easy or even possible, because we're just not seeing anything in him. If he does switch characters and get big, you can't honestly say that you just knew he was going to get big one day, because the current character would have nothing to do with it. Plus, O'Haire's promos sucked once he had to cut them semi-live. Maybe acting lessons would help, but WWE seems to have given up on it completely. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheFranchise 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 Don't you see Matt becoming ME one day? A John Cena/RVD/Chris Jericho/Booker T main eventer (where they rotate from main event to midcard), sure, but I don't see WWE making him a real main eventer. Would you class regularly main eventing in somewhere other than WWE (assuming nothing else starts up that can be classed as competition, we'll go with TNA right now) as a real main eventer? Suppose you'd have to call D-Lo Brown a ME'er though by that theory. Jericho WILL be a main eventer one day, it just depends on HHH staying on Raw/HHH marrying and retiring, yes, Jericho's career really DOES depend on HHH. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mulatto Heat Report post Posted September 13, 2003 Chuck Palumbo was also a future main eventer, even challenging for the WCW title in his last year there, Wouldn't you say he had the same credentials AS O'Haire right now? Or would you say Chucky has 'talent?' I occassionally hear about Palumbo's "WCW World title chase" and shake my head. That was a blatant on-air joke by Russo, which lasted all of one Nitro. Chuck was never a serious World title challenger. I agree there, he never was a challenger, but in a marks eyes, he was chosen ahead of Kevin Nash in that match. We all know how Nash was made to look in WCW, he was getting god pushes constantly (god finger poke not withstanding) But once again, do you think Palumbo hs talent? OK, I felt pity for you and decided to lay off of you, but you asked me a question and I'll answer it and leave this thread be. First off, he was chosen as a joke, it lasted one night, and he was right back to tagging, while Nash DID get another God push and ended Booker's first reign just a couple weeks later. And to answer your question, Chuck has a good punch and belly-to-belly, and um... well... there's nothing else about him that really stands out to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheFranchise 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 We're not trying to gang up on Franchise, but it comes down to this... Guys like Matt and Cena now, or Rock and Austin before they got big--there were fairly obvious, tangible reasons to think they'd become huge stars. There's nothing really tangible here. You like O'Haire and hope he becomes successful. That's okay, and I can accept that. Trying to convince us of the same isn't going to be easy or even possible, because we're just not seeing anything in him. If he does switch characters and get big, you can't honestly say that you just knew he was going to get big one day, because the current character would have nothing to do with it. Plus, O'Haire's promos sucked once he had to cut them semi-live. Maybe acting lessons would help, but WWE seems to have given up on it completely. *sighs* Fine. I'll see you in 2006 We'll hang around for a gimmick repackagement then, then we'll discuss his moveset/style/LOOK/potential. (only joking about the LOOK thing) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheFranchise 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 Chuck Palumbo was also a future main eventer, even challenging for the WCW title in his last year there, Wouldn't you say he had the same credentials AS O'Haire right now? Or would you say Chucky has 'talent?' I occassionally hear about Palumbo's "WCW World title chase" and shake my head. That was a blatant on-air joke by Russo, which lasted all of one Nitro. Chuck was never a serious World title challenger. I agree there, he never was a challenger, but in a marks eyes, he was chosen ahead of Kevin Nash in that match. We all know how Nash was made to look in WCW, he was getting god pushes constantly (god finger poke not withstanding) But once again, do you think Palumbo hs talent? OK, I felt pity for you and decided to lay off of you, but you asked me a question and I'll answer it and leave this thread be. First off, he was chosen as a joke, it lasted one night, and he was right back to tagging, while Nash DID get another God push and ended Booker's first reign just a couple weeks later. And to answer your question, Chuck has a good punch and belly-to-belly, and um... well... there's nothing else about him that really stands out to me. Once again, I understand it was only a one night deal from Russo concerning Palumbo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 Chuck was tolerable teaming with Billy--those two bumping and selling for 2 Count was great stuff. Yeah, they still kinda sucked, but they were really trying, bless their studly hearts! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thrall585 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 Would you class regularly main eventing in somewhere other than WWE (assuming nothing else starts up that can be classed as competition, we'll go with TNA right now) as a real main eventer? Suppose you'd have to call D-Lo Brown a ME'er though by that theory. Jericho WILL be a main eventer one day, it just depends on HHH staying on Raw/HHH marrying and retiring, yes, Jericho's career really DOES depend on HHH. A real main eventer in TNA in a real main eventer in TNA, but it doesn't mean they would be a real main eventer in WWE. If D-Lo Brown main events then goes to midcard then back to main events, etc, then he is a main eventer like Cena/RVD/Jericho/Booker T, but not a real main eventer, so not somebody very important. From June 2001-December 2001, WITHOUT HHH around, Jericho was a joke, so who knows if he will be a real main eventer one day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mulatto Heat Report post Posted September 13, 2003 Chuck was tolerable teaming with Billy--those two bumping and selling for 2 Count was great stuff. Yeah, they still kinda sucked, but they were really trying, bless their studly hearts! I recall more of Chuck selling his heart out for those two while Billy dragged it down. But that was more than a year ago. Since then, there's been a messy FBI push for Chuck where he didn't distinguish himself in any way and that's about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheFranchise 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 Would you class regularly main eventing in somewhere other than WWE (assuming nothing else starts up that can be classed as competition, we'll go with TNA right now) as a real main eventer? Suppose you'd have to call D-Lo Brown a ME'er though by that theory. Jericho WILL be a main eventer one day, it just depends on HHH staying on Raw/HHH marrying and retiring, yes, Jericho's career really DOES depend on HHH. A real main eventer in TNA in a real main eventer in TNA, but it doesn't mean they would be a real main eventer in WWE. If D-Lo Brown main events then goes to midcard then back to main events, etc, then he is a main eventer like Cena/RVD/Jericho/Booker T, but not a real main eventer, so not somebody very important. From June 2001-December 2001, WITHOUT HHH around, Jericho was a joke, so who knows if he will be a real main eventer one day. That was PARTLY (ha!) due to poor booking. It only takes one BIG injury to make a star, Austin's 2000 injury shall we say? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haVoc 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 So is it safe to say put O'haire in a tag team and see how he develops from there? If he improves, then he improves. If not, well, the door is that way ~> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheFranchise 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 Chuck was tolerable teaming with Billy--those two bumping and selling for 2 Count was great stuff. Yeah, they still kinda sucked, but they were really trying, bless their studly hearts! I recall more of Chuck selling his heart out for those two while Billy dragged it down. But that was more than a year ago. Since then, there's been a messy FBI push for Chuck where he didn't distinguish himself in any way and that's about it. And they used to call Billy the 'tag team specialist' Scary thought... How about Billy Gunn to make it big in the ME in 2006? Dad.. uh... i mean Vince... uh... were married now, so dad... My mate billy wants the title, can he have it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thrall585 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 Austin's 2000 injury shall we say? In 2000 he came back from injury, you mean his 1999 injury. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheFranchise 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 I do apologise. Then 99-2000, Austin took time out, and HHH ran with it. HHH takes some time out, and who runs with it? You will never know until it happens, there is always a surprise package in any sport, whether it be someone making a late run for the playoffs in football, or someone suddenly putting on regular ***-**** matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thrall585 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 HHH takes some time out, and who runs with it? You will never know until it happens, there is always a surprise package in any sport, whether it be someone making a late run for the playoffs in football, or someone suddenly putting on regular ***-**** matches. HHH already took some time off (for his injury) in mid/late 2001, and Austin and Angle ran with it. If he takes a long time off, they would likely just turn Steiner heel and have him feud with Goldberg. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheFranchise 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 I dont mean over a six month period, i just mean a big ME'er had a long term injury that caused him to be dropped for a long time, and someone had to replace him from the midcard/upper midcard, you dont know until you're there, because as Michaels' sidekick before his ME run, you'd NEVER have put him as the next man with a big run. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haVoc 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 99-2000, Austin took time out, and HHH ran with it. HHH takes some time out, and who runs with it? 2001, Jericho started to run with the ball. Then Triple H jumped out from Steph's bush and tripped him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheFranchise 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 99-2000, Austin took time out, and HHH ran with it. HHH takes some time out, and who runs with it? 2001, Jericho started to run with the ball. Then Triple H jumped out from Steph's bush and tripped him. I'm sure that last bit was meant in the more traditional sense, but i'll leave that be. Point: Jericho STARTED to run with it, he wasn't given the chance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 And they used to call Billy the 'tag team specialist' Scary thought... How about Billy Gunn to make it big in the ME in 2006? Dad.. uh... i mean Vince... uh... were married now, so dad... My mate billy wants the title, can he have it? Billy can't get over. It's impossible. Don't worry about it. Billy isn't a Cliq member either, and since HHH isn't going out of his way to see that the other Cliq members get constant main event shots (Nash and HBK are both in midcard hell just like any other former challengers), a guy who was basically just a tag along like Billy isn't going to benefit either. If he gets another push, it will be only because Vince likes him and gives him another chance. But even that will fail like every Gunn push. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheFranchise 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 As much as Vince likes Billy, does he like him enough to give him that ME run? He's tried before with The Rock and for a little while tagging with Austin (I dont recall them meeting one on one, scratch Austin Vs DX leading up to Austin/HHH) I'd give you a lovely choice of who's more talented between Gunn and O'Haire but i dont think i'd like your answer Granted, Gunn isn't a kliq member so to speak, but Credible was in a way a member, and he didn't last long (Did he even win a match?) Vince will overide HHH, he has in the past, and he will in the future, it's his company, and Vince McMahon puts his company first. If he thinks a wrestler that he likes (remember, if Vince likes him, then the fans obviously must also lke him) deserves a ME run, he'll get one, if he thinks he doesn't, (RVD) then he certainly wont get one. Not trying to say HHH has previously pushed for a Van Dam ME push. I'm losing this argument too, it hasn't been a good day. I'm sure they have a pretty cool friendship though (Gunn + HHH) from their DX days together, although they were only working skits, DX DID have a lot of fun together. Edit: Oh, and Gunn WAS over in the Outlaws. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 "Vince will overide HHH, he has in the past, and he will in the future, it's his company, and Vince McMahon puts his company first." Diesel, 9 months WWF champion... Stephanie, writer since 2001. HHH, Raw champion for about a year save for that month it was on his buddy HBK. I rest my case. HHH is way too selfish to give Gunn a chance, since even his best buddy HBK had only a token reign. He might, but only on the basis that Gunn is NO threat to his spot. And Gunn wouldn't have been over in NAO without Road Dogg. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheFranchise 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 "Vince will overide HHH, he has in the past, and he will in the future, it's his company, and Vince McMahon puts his company first." Diesel, 9 months WWF champion... Stephanie, writer since 2001. HHH, Raw champion for about a year save for that month it was on his buddy HBK. I rest my case. HHH is way too selfish to give Gunn a chance, since even his best buddy HBK had only a token reign. He might, but only on the basis that Gunn is NO threat to his spot. And Gunn wouldn't have been over in NAO without Road Dogg. Road Dogg wouldn't have been over in NAO without gunn though, it's case of Hogan/Vince, none of them would have been who the are without the other. Like HHH/HBK (well, it's kind of one sided there) I'm not saying HHH has no influence, i'm just saying that when his business comes to a crossroads between HHH and good sense (yes, you will bring up a counter point) that wont ruin his business completely, well, Vince is a good business man, and will protect his company ahead of HHH and Steph's happiness, gaurenteed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zack Malibu 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 Franchise2002 likes Douglas AND O'Haire? That rocks. Anyways, if you remember about 2 months ago we had a huge O'Haire discussion, listing all the various reasons why he was capable of better/wasn't capable of anything (depending on who's side you took). It was also there that myself, Choken One and Vyce got dubbed the "SOH Triad", as the lone O'Haire supporters in the thread. So Franchise isn't alone, I'm another guy who thinks O'Haire has been entertaining and isn't being used properly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheFranchise 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 Franchise2002 likes Douglas AND O'Haire? That rocks. Anyways, if you remember about 2 months ago we had a huge O'Haire discussion, listing all the various reasons why he was capable of better/wasn't capable of anything (depending on who's side you took). It was also there that myself, Choken One and Vyce got dubbed the "SOH Triad", as the lone O'Haire supporters in the thread. So Franchise isn't alone, I'm another guy who thinks O'Haire has been entertaining and isn't being used properly. Whooo! But you're too late, AndrewTS and his cronies have already torn me a new A. Franchise2002 likes Douglas AND O'Haire? Hey, i have taste. It was also there that myself, Choken One and Vyce got dubbed the "SOH Triad", What's the forth called? Can i join the Fourad? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thrall585 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 Diesel, 9 months WWF champion... Nearly 12 months Stephanie, writer since 2001. She hasn't really been a writer, just head of the booking team (after Vince), and since 2000, not 2001. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheFranchise 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 This from the man who won the world title in a 6 second match one time. I wont even argue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zack Malibu 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 What's the forth called? Can i join the Fourad? I'd say the Four 'Hairesmen, if anything. I know it's lame, but it's the first thing I came up with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheFranchise 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 That's class. *marks for the Four 'Hairesmen* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haVoc 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 Hey, I never said I hated O'haire. I just don't think he's anything special. With the right gimmick and more ring time he could be a huge star. I doubt it though since he isn't a WWE baby. Hell, I was the one who said put O'haire with Test. Not as punishment either. I think they would make a good tag team for the moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 Road Dogg wouldn't have been over in NAO without gunn though, it's case of Hogan/Vince, none of them would have been who the are without the other. I think Dogg needed a tag team partner, but Gunn did little else but wiggle his ass and say "suck it." I don't think it would have been difficult for some one else to do his job just as well or better. I'm not saying HHH has no influence, i'm just saying that when his business comes to a crossroads between HHH and good sense (yes, you will bring up a counter point) that wont ruin his business completely, well, Vince is a good business man, and will protect his company ahead of HHH and Steph's happiness, gaurenteed. Considering all of HHH's recent challengers, except for Booker, would have been disasters, I won't challenge that point, but how many years will it be, exactly? I wouldn't blame Vince if Goldberg jobs to HHH, though, although even I conceed it might be a stupid decision--just not as one as overt as pushing Nash and Steiner to the main event right out of the gate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2003 Diesel, 9 months WWF champion... Nearly 12 months Stephanie, writer since 2001. She hasn't really been a writer, just head of the booking team (after Vince), and since 2000, not 2001. Okay, both cases are worse than what I thought. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
