The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[Mole 0]

Preview for next week "Soul Purpose"

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

A stranger approaches Spike claiming responsibility for recorporealizing him in a mission to guide Spike into becoming the new champion. Meanwhile, Angel is racked by intense fever dreams of his worst fear - that he will lose authority to Spike

[Mole 0]

At petitiononline.com, there is a petition for Dawn to special guest on Angel. They only have 340 votes right now, so it doesn't look like she will be on Angel. Thank GoD.

 

And this is my 6,000 post!

[Hank Kingsley 0]

A petition wouldn't have worked anyway. I doubt the producers would listen to that particular one, since Dawn has no reason to be on Angel. She doesn't have a history with any of the characters besides Spike, and there's no way she could've known about him being back in the first place.

[Mole 0]

Plus the fact that she sucks, even though she did get hot in season 7.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

OK! I saw Harms Way tonight! I really enjoyed it - moreso than I thought.

 

Ok, let's see how this goes... been a while...

 

1. Harmony knocking out the blood tester, lorne and finally Fred was hilarious - the look on her face was priceless.

 

2. Is it me, or did Fred look exceptionally HOT tonight? SHIT.

 

3. Harmony vs. The Other Chick was fucking great! GREAT! The chopsticks, the different matrixesque fighting styles, the unicorn jab. GREAT.

 

4. Some people didn't like the Spike explanation, I didn't mind it. He's always wanted Buffy to think great of him, and him coming back would lessen that.

 

5. I was feeling for Harmony, but then you realise that she's still a bitch - it's a nice balance.

 

6... um.. err... uh.... can only think of 5 things... shit... well, Nathan Fillion IS god, btw. Check out the Firefly thread!

[Guest Vitamin EC]

I can't comment too much because I'm one-ep-this-season guy but shouldn't Spike's explanation be that he doesn't want to find Buffy because he came to the realisation of Buffy not loving him in Chosen?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

He's always known that Buffy doesn't love him, he just wants Buffy to respect him. Her saying "I love you" wasn't so much a sign of affection as it was a sign of respect.

[BlackFlagg 0]

Ohhh, The Body's on FX right now

[Mole 0]

He's always known that Buffy doesn't love him, he just wants Buffy to respect him. Her saying "I love you" wasn't so much a sign of affection as it was a sign of respect.

See, I don't understand why they did that. I think Joss was pulling a Star Wars with Han Solo or something.

 

I believe Buffy really does love Spike, she wasn't just saying it to give him "respect" or anything.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yes, Buffy saved "I love you" right for when he was going to die because she legitimately loved him. No. She wanted to give him peace before he died - since he was doing a selfless act and whatnot.

[Mole 0]

Boo hoo, you don't get it do you?

 

It's called good TV. Buffy just waited to say 'I love you' because she knew it was the last episode, so she wanted to make good TV.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

You've been spending too much time in Hardcore - stay away Mole. That place is built with Popsicle Sticks and Glue with sparkle randomly (and poorly) spread throughout.

[Hank Kingsley 0]

These next three weeks are going to be AWESOME for Angel. Tomorrow's ep, then Damage with

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

ANDREW~

and then the 100th ep. Sure, some of the later episodes sound like crap

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

IT'S THE PUPPET SHOW REVISITED!!

but the arc is getting quite good.

[Mole 0]

You've been spending too much time in Hardcore - stay away Mole. That place is built with Popsicle Sticks and Glue with sparkle randomly (and poorly) spread throughout.

I just knew you were right, so I gave some lame ass excuse to defend myself.

[Mole 0]

Here is a picture of Michelle with her boyfriend Chris Adams. She looks so damn pale next to him, or maybe it is just the lighting.

 

[areacode212 0]

Hey, nice new Invision software.

 

I liked the episode, but it was the weakest one of the season.

 

"Harm's Way" was actually my personal favorite episode of the season so far. And it's not just because I lurve Harmony. Well, OK, it is, but there was a lot more going on in the story than people seem to think. I mean, I enjoyed it perfectly well as a simple Harmony story, or as a metaphor for how being a secretary sucks, but am I the only person to see parallels between Harmony, Angel & Spike, or am I just crazy? I got to thinking of this stuff after seeing what someone wrote about the chick fight being a sendup of Angel/Spike.

 

See, I think "Harm's Way" was basically reflecting the stuff that was going on with Angel & Spike, only on a smaller scale.

 

I typed this stuff up for another board (also, it's a result of drinking too much coffee while thinking of Angel):

 

Anyway, I liked that person's idea of Harmony vs. Tamika being a sendup of what's been going on with Angel & Spike. I thought about it some more before I watched my 24 tape last night. I think it's more of a case of both conflicts having similar themes rather than being completely analogous. You have Tamika, sitting in the steno pool for 5 years*, waiting to be promoted to the "in group". Then out of nowhere comes this hot new blonde vampire, stealing "her" promotion/shanshu.

 

*I wonder if "5 years" is also some kind of Angel-related parallel. It's been 5 years since FH&T (when he returned from hell) and "Amends", when Jasmine(?) convinced him that he had some higher purpose waiting for him.

 

And I can also see some Harmony/Angel parallels, in the sense that she feels that she's been doing everything right (abstaining from killing, being a good secretary, doing special research on the demon eating habits), but doesn't feel appreciated for her efforts. Just like how Angel has spent the last 4 years doing all this work in L.A., and what did he get out of it? He had to lose his miracle son, lose Cordelia, and ended up working for his enemy. Both Harmony & Angel feel like nothing they ever did matters.

 

 

I was thinking some more about this episode this morning, and I like how it kind of encapsulates the ongoing "I feel like nothing I did matters" theme of the season. There's the Tamika stuff I talked about above, but it occurred to me that it covers a lot of some of the same themes that we saw in "Numero Cinco":

 

Harmony sees Danny and the way Lorne fawns over him. Lorne invites him over to the conference table and tells everyone what a go-getter he is. Later, Danny brags to the chicks about how Lorne is grooming him. Meanwhile, Harmony continues to sit apart from the group, probably thinking something like, "Hey! My work is just as good as his. Plus, I have to control this bloodlust. Why doesn't Angel say stuff like that about me? *sniff*"

 

Doesn't this remind you of...Angel in "Numero Cinco"? He sees the Aztec demon running around, cutting out the hearts of heroes...but leaving Angel alone. Angel spends a lot of the episode thinking "I'm a hero, too! I'm just as good as they are. Look at all the times I saved the world! Didn't any of that count? What about MY heart? *sniff*"

 

All this applies to Spike as well. He sacrificed himself in "Chosen", and he ended with nothing. No girl, not even a body (for the first 7 eps), plus he's going to hell. All he saw was Angel and his nice penthouse apartment, his power, and his cars. We're all aware of the things he said...basically "I saved the world too! Where's my reward? What did I do all that for?"

 

All three of them see other people getting credit for things that they also did, but aren't being recognized for.

 

So Harmony, feeling worthless and lonely, desperately grabs at the tiniest things that validate her. Fred says, "I don't hate you", and Harm immediately asks her out, thinking that she just found a new best friend. Spike throws her the littlest scrap at the end, saying that she matters because Tamika hated her enough to try to kill her, and Harmony seizes upon that, finding meaning & validation in something so minor.

 

That reminded me of something pointed out back when "Cinco" aired. Angel looking up the Shanshu prophecy at the end of the episode was really him grasping at straws. He doubts himself and his status as a "hero", so he's desperately looking for *something* that gives his existence meaning.

 

See, I've seen "Harm's Way" described as a "feel-good" episode, but...the ending didn't make me feel good at all. Like the end of "Cinco", it's actually pretty sad. Yeah, she says "I matter!" and it ends on that plinky musical note, but isn't it kind of hollow? She still isn't being appreciated for what she does. Angel never said, "hey, thanks for saving the summit". Angel, Spike & Harm want validation that the things they do count for something.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

GOOD stuff. The parallels are certainly there; Angel post of the week!

[Mole 0]

Damn areacode, that is some good thinking. I would have never thought of that before, well maybe I might have if I was stoned.

 

We need you in THIS thread area, not at some other board talking about Angel. We need you in HERE, you really know your shit. You and Ripper need to post more often, speaking of Ripper, where is he? I miss that son of a gun.

[areacode212 0]

Thanks. See, I need validation too. Just like Harmony. Yeah, I try to drop in every once in a while, but it's like, there are only so many hours in a day.

 

BTW, if any of you are fans of 24, remember that bitchy girl who was stuck in jail with Kim back in the first season? She'll be playing Dana, next week's psycho slayer.

[areacode212 0]

If you liked that, I also had some things to say about "Amends" and last season's Jasmine arc that some of you might find interesting:

 

...ever since "Harm's Way" aired last week, I've been thinking a lot about Angel's character, and after what Tamika said about waiting "five years" for her reward, I started pondering the effects of "Amends", which aired roughly five years ago (12/98). It's pretty interesting to see how this old Buffy episode has informed so much of what's been going on in Angel, up to & including Angel accepting Lilah's deal to take over Wolfram & Hart. That miracle snow ended up being one of the most important elements of Angel's story, and much of his current disconnect & hopelessness stems directly from the events of "Amends".

 

I just realized that much of Angel's story from "Amends" through "Home" is a metaphor for a guy trying to find redemption through religion, and how, ultimately, he finds that religion is empty. Joss's athiesm really comes across loud & clear here, and it's hard to fully appreciate "Amends" in context without knowing what happens at the end of AtS S4.

 

Because in the end, the miracle snow in "Amends" wasn't a cheesy Christmas gimmick at all. In fact, it was the seemingly sentimental beginning of a much more cynical story that ended up taking years to play out. All the sentiment of this episode has been completely turned inside out by the events of "Shiny Happy People" through "Peace Out".

 

Let's see...Sunnydale, 1998. We have a nice little Christmas story about the FE trying to shame Angel into committing suicide. At the end of the episode, he gets a message from God...er, the "Powers that Be" via miracle snow that he does have a purpose and that redemption is indeed possible for him. Aw! It's so heartwarming! It's like 7th Heaven in Sunnydale!

 

Except that it isn't.

 

Because who was that God? Fast-forward to Los Angeles, 2003. The PTB (metaphor for "God") turned out to be Jasmine, who ultimately wanted to enslave the world and bend it to her will (or whatever). The Jasmine/"organized religion is bad" anvils in AtS S4 were pretty obvious, and off-topic for here, so I won't get into them, but doesn't it completely change "Amends"? So much of Angel's identity & hope came directly from the way he "found religion" in that damn miracle snow. Angel's "religion" in this case was the idea that the Powers That Be had larger plans for him, that all his sins as Angelus could one day be forgiven.

 

So what did he do when he found out that everything he believed starting with "Amends" was a lie, and that there is no God?

 

He made a deal with the devil.

 

This is what happens when you have a really long, boring commute to work, and you start thinking about Angel & Buffy.

[Mole 0]

Woah, woah, wait a second.

 

Angel made a deal with the devil? By killing Jasmine, he made a deal with the devil? You must explain this a little more, puh-lease.

[areacode212 0]

I mean metaphorically, but think of Wolfram & Hart as "the devil" (that's how they were sort of portrayed in the beginning anyway, with everyone (Lindsey McDonald, Lilah Morgan, Linwood Murrow, Lee Mercer) having "L.M." (Lucifer Morningstar) initials).

 

Yeah, they also promised to take care of Connor, but after he realized that everything he was working for was false, why else would he allow himself to work for his arch-enemy? The reveal that Jasmine was behind everything was a huge blow. His "higher purpose" is gone. So when Lilah comes along, offering him all the power of Wolfram & Hart...why not take it? He has nothing left. Basically, he says, "fuck it" and pretty much gives up. He talks a lot about "using W&H to do good", but it never sounds like his heart is in it.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Jasmine was *a* power-that-be, wasn't she?

[Mole 0]

Oh oh, I get it. I've never noticed that all of W&H's lawyers were LM.

[areacode212 0]

The way I'm interpreting it (I have to watch those episodes again), whenever there was a reference to the "Powers That Be", it was Jasmine all along. Didn't she say something like, "the powers don't care about humanity; they never did" ? She was behind everything...his return from hell, the snow, the visions, Darla's pregnancy. It was all part of her plan to bring about Connor, then herself.

 

It's possible that Jasmine & Skip were lying about this, but what *really* happened isn't that important:

 

The important part is this is what Angel thinks. In "Amends", he ends up thinking that the Powers that Be do have a higher purpose for him. At the end of last season, he realizes that he was nothing more than a tool. Why did he even bother doing good for the past 4 years?

 

Oh oh, I get it. I've never noticed that all of W&H's lawyers were LM.

 

Well, not all of them (like Holland), but a lot of those guys were.

[Mole 0]

Everytime I watch season 4, I never get past the episode in which Jasmine comes. If I have more time this coming up semester, I'll watch that story arc again.

 

From what I remember, I firmly believe that everything that happened to Angel from season 3 of Buffy to season 4 of Angel, happened for a reason. Let me try to digest it all, and if I forget something, let me know:

 

1) Faith goes to the darkside, and Buffy quits the council. Wes no longer has a watcher and no reason to stay in Sunnydale.

2) Angel leaves Sunnydale and goes to LA.

3) Angel meets Doyle, who has visions.

4) Angel sees Cordy, and she begins working with him

5) Doyle dies, and passes his powers to Cordy

6) Wes comes to LA and works with Angel and Cordy

7) Cordy has the visions, and it starts to get to her more and more

8) W&H bring back Darla

9) Dru turns Darla into a vamp again

10) Angel and Darla fuck, and Darla becomes pregnent

11) Cordy has the vision about Fred

12) Cordy gets stuck in Pylea(sp) and Angel and crew has to save her

13) Cordy meets Gru

14) Fred comes to LA, Gunn and Wes like Fred

15) Darla comes to LA, shows Angel that she is pregnent

16) Holtz comes back

17) Darla has Connor and Holtz decides to hurt Angel not by killing him

18) Fred goes for Gunn, not Wes, which causes Wes to take his depression

19) Wes believes that "Father will kill Son" so he kidnaps Connor

20) Gru comes to LA, and Cordy goes to him

21) Angel realizes that he loves Cordy, and he needed Gru there to notice that

22) Holtz takes Connor away, that way he grows up quicker than usual

23) Cordy becomes part demon

24) Connor comes back

25) Cordy becomes a higher power

26) Cordy becomes human again, but while she was a high power she realizes that her and Angel couldn't be together

27) THE BEAST comes

28) Cordy and Connor fuck. If Cordy wasn't a higher power, her and Angel would have been together. If they were together, then Cordy and Connor wouldn't have gotten together

29) Cordy is pregnent, and has Jasmine

 

I think I covered all of the areas. In one way or another, all of these events needed to happen for Jasmine to be born.

[Hank Kingsley 0]

Okay, this episode gets a Lindsay appearance two minutes in. It rocks.

[Anakin Flair 0]

That segment with Spike and the girl in the Alley was GOLD. I've been waiting for somebody to tell off the stupid girls who take a shortcut through a dark alley.

[Hank Kingsley 0]

!!!

 

They recreated the fight from "City Of..." with Spike. God, that's golden.

[Anakin Flair 0]

Buffy soundclips! Name those episodes!