Guest thrall585 Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 Ah, now the pieces are coming together. You didn't watch back then, so you track down some old PPV's on tape and make your admitted assumption that way. Take it from someone who actually was watching the shows, Austin was very over. And your PPV logic doesn't really apply either. Some shows just have a dead crowd. The people who buy tickets for a given event don't speak for the entire viewing audience. Even at the height of the Austin era there were still PPV's where the crowd was quiet and sat on their hands all night, guess Austin's never been over at all, huh? During the height of the Austin era (98 to mid 99) there were never any PPVs where the crowd didn't give him huge face heat. In fact Survivor Series 96 took place at Madison Square Garden, one of the top arenas for giving face/heel heat. Except for that major PPV, Austin got hardly ANYTHING. If he can't get anything at a big show at MSG, then by common sense, he can't get anything at any Raws back then (late 96-early 97). Your are overrating Austin heat back then, unless you are talking about Austin calling Bret Hart "shitman", well anybody can get heel heat from that.
USC Wuz Robbed! Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 And Bret/Austin's unpredictable brawls got Austin further over as well. Not just calling Bret "Shitman"
Guest thrall585 Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 And Bret/Austin's unpredictable brawls got Austin further over as well. Not just calling Bret "Shitman" Austin didn't get over until Wrestlemania XIII, so those unpredictable brawls took place after that PPV.
USC Wuz Robbed! Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 Exactly my point. Austin wasn't monster over til then.
Guest Choken One Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 Why do I remember austin getting mad heat at Royal Rumble then? Must be a figment of my imagination.
Guest thrall585 Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 Why do I remember austin getting mad heat at Royal Rumble then? Must be a figment of my imagination. Right. I watched Rumble 97 again and Austin gets little/no heat.
Guest Choken One Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 Why do i recall a HUGE reaction when he gets thrown over the ropes...That's a great Heel thing...They couldn't stand that asshole being cocky as fuck and wow apeshit when he got thrown out...
Damaramu Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 Thrall you basically have all of us telling you he was over. Why the hell would ALL of us make it up? It's like 100 to 1 here pal. Austin was over there's no arguing it. See most of us commenting WATCHED THE SHOWS at the time. I remember not ever seeing anything like it. But then again I must not remember right. Because you can just ASSume about it. Oh well....guess my own eyes against your ASSumption isn't good enough.
Guest thrall585 Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 Why do i recall a HUGE reaction when he gets thrown over the ropes...That's a great Heel thing...They couldn't stand that asshole being cocky as fuck and wow apeshit when he got thrown out... Austin gets thrown out, the crowd cheers, and then he reenters the ring. They didn't jeer him when he got thrown out before he reentered the ring. The reason they cheered was because they knew that either Bret Hart or Undertaker would now win the Rumble. It is clear they don't give a crap about Austin (from giving him NO reaction at Survivor Series 96 from MSG), but if Austin was a jobber, like fake Diesel and was thrown out, the reaction wouldn't be as big. But Austin was pushed down the fans throats when he wasn't over, so they felt he could be continued to be pushed down the fans throats by winning the Rumble, so they were glad the he was eliminated.
Guest thrall585 Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 Thrall you basically have all of us telling you he was over. Why the hell would ALL of us make it up? It's like 100 to 1 here pal. Austin was over there's no arguing it. See most of us commenting WATCHED THE SHOWS at the time. I remember not ever seeing anything like it. But then again I must not remember right. Because you can just ASSume about it. Oh well....guess my own eyes against your ASSumption isn't good enough. Someone else and you have said that they watched the shows back then and Austin is over. That isn't "100 to 1 here". If Austin can't get over at a huge show at MSG as a heel (Survivor Series 96) then there is no way he could ever be over at any time before Wrestlemania XIII. Don't tell me "I remember he was over from the shows I watched back then", dispute my logic, because only proving my logic wrong would make me believe because I have no Raws from back then to watch.
Guest RollingSambos Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 Not only was Austin over before WM 13, their unpredictable brawls happened mostly between November of '96 and March of '97. The only really memorable brawl they had after that was when Austin crippled Bret's knee with the chair and then attacked him in the ambulance. And he WAS over at Survivor Series '96...
Guest thrall585 Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 Not only was Austin over before WM 13, their unpredictable brawls happened mostly between November of '96 and March of '97. The only really memorable brawl they had after that was when Austin crippled Bret's knee with the chair and then attacked him in the ambulance. And he WAS over at Survivor Series '96... I watched the Survivor Series 96 match twice and I saw that he was unover. However I will watch it again soon so I can comment on that.
USC Wuz Robbed! Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 Austin was over in 1996, yes... but I don't think it got to the point where Austinmania ran wild til after KOTR.... but then again that was in 1996... ah I have my chronologics screwed up...
Damaramu Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 Yes he was over before WM13. But he wasn't uber-over like he was when he won the title at WM14.
RavishingRickRudo Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 When did Austin start pandering to the fans? I remember distinctly watching him do his heel schtick with the fans cheering like mad and he still didn't give a fuck. I'm thinkin that was around fall 96-ish, but the memory, it fades.. It could have been 97.
Damaramu Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 He started pandering to the fans around the time he feuded with HBK and won the world title. That's when he started asking for hell yeah's and such.
Guest thrall585 Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 When Austin gives his speech after his KOTR 96 win, the crowd doesn't care. Austin was so over that he got no PPV match at Summerslam 96. I just watched the Survivor Series 96 match against Bret again and the crowd doesn't give Austin much heat at all. The only time they gave him a decent reaction more than the tepid reactions he was getting throughout the match was when he continued to beat the crap out of Bret in the mid portion of the match. Wow someone beating up one of the top faces, of course that will get a reaction. If you want to call it heat, it is cheap heat, just like insulting a town. Pre WMXIII, Austin was not over enough for a main eventer.
Damaramu Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 No he was over from his feud with Hitman and on. Nobody said he was over at the King of the Ring. But once he started feuding with Bret and started trashing on Hart and being the "anti-hero" the fans started reacting to him. And don't give me that bullshit that they didn't. Because once again I sat there and watched those shows myself(something you didn't do) and Austin was catching fire. Yes it exploded after WM13 but to sit there and say that he didn't have any heat is absurd.
Guest Choken One Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 When Austin gives his speech after his KOTR 96 win, the crowd doesn't care. Austin was so over that he got no PPV match at Summerslam 96. I just watched the Survivor Series 96 match against Bret again and the crowd doesn't give Austin much heat at all. The only time they gave him a decent reaction more than the tepid reactions he was getting throughout the match was when he continued to beat the crap out of Bret in the mid portion of the match. Wow someone beating up one of the top faces, of course that will get a reaction. If you want to call it heat, it is cheap heat, just like insulting a town. Pre WMXIII, Austin was not over enough for a main eventer. Actually He did against Yokozuna but that was the preshow...
RavishingRickRudo Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 Um, beating up on a babyface isn't cheap heat...
Guest thrall585 Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 But once he started feuding with Bret and started trashing on Hart and being the "anti-hero" the fans started reacting to him. And don't give me that bullshit that they didn't. Because once again I sat there and watched those shows myself(something you didn't do) and Austin was catching fire. Yes it exploded after WM13 but to sit there and say that he didn't have any heat is absurd. Right they started to react to him, but it wasn't much. For instance for face heat, there were a few signs and a few t-shirts of Austin 3:16 here and there, nothing like in 1998, but nothing to brag about at all. And for heel heat, he didn't get any, unless he insults or beats the crap out of Bret Hart (who was one of the top face wrestlers). And that is all cheap heat that anybody can get.
Guest Choken One Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 Cheap Heat is what Christian does "The So and So Suck"... Beating the babyface is kinda what the heel does ya know.
Guest thrall585 Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 Um, beating up on a babyface isn't cheap heat... It is because anybody can do it, just like anybody can insult a town.
Guest Choken One Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 Um, beating up on a babyface isn't cheap heat... It is because anybody can do it, just like anybody can insult a town. So Ric Flair never was Over because that's all he ever fucking did was beat up the babyface...and unlike Flair, Austin never acted like a coward...
Guest thrall585 Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 So Ric Flair never was Over because that's all he ever fucking did was beat up the babyface...and unlike Flair, Austin never acted like a coward... Flair played the heel role in doing the cheap heat of beating up the faces, however people didn't truly hate him because he wasn't a real heel, because of the cheap heat.
CanadianChick Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 So what is defined as non-cheap heat than?
Guest Choken One Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 So why did they Boo him unrelentlessly? They hated him because all he did was beat up the good guys and run like a pussy anytime things weren't going his way... He would beatdown Luger, Dusty, Steamboat on constant occasions and run like the devil when it didn't work... Austin wasn't like that, He beat them up and made sure he beat them up some more and welcomed others to try to kick his ass... The fans liked that change in a Heel, no longer was the bad guy running, he was defiante in his means.
Guest thrall585 Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 So what is defined as non-cheap heat than? Insulting the town while you are beating up the face. Just kidding. Ok, beating up the faces may be cheap heat, but it makes you a heel. Austin did it, but he didn't get that much heel heat unless he really beated the crap out of the face. A better heel gets a reaction if he does anything to the face.
Guest Choken One Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 I remember Austin Pilmanizing...Pillman in his hometown...I never seen such a diverse crowd of HATRED and CHEERS...It was so beautiful.
Guest thrall585 Posted September 27, 2003 Report Posted September 27, 2003 If that is when he crushed his ankle with the chair, of course that would get him heat, as it would give anyone who did that to him. However Austin needed to Pilmanize or beat the crap out of his opponents in order to get heat back in late 96/early 97.
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