What was the better Benoit / Hart match?

[Lil' Bitch 0]

I can't decide.

[Guest Askewniverse]

The Owen Hart Tribute Match, hands down.

 

The Mayhem match is decent, but nowhere as good as the tribute match. Also, the Mayhem match had interference, which knocks it down a notch.

 

The tribute match, on the other hand, was a great, clean, wrestling match that went nearly 30 minutes. It's easily Bret's best match in WCW, and is one of my favorite matches of all-time. I only wish that I could find an uncut copy of the match.

[Guest BAR]

I think the Owen tribute match is quite a bit better. But, it's still vastly over-rated.

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

No contest.

 

Owen Tribute match is one of the best NA wrestling matches in the past 5 years. The Mayhem match was disappointing.

[eiker_ir 0]

i agree with BAR, the Nitro Match was much better and a great match, but i think is very over-rated, i don't know what, but i felt something was missing in that match.

 

i may have to give it another look

[ISportsFan 0]

The Mayhem match is chock-full of interference and breaks in the flow, while the Owen tribute is awesome. No contest.

 

Jason

[Guest wildpegasus]

1)Benoit vs Bret-Tribute Match

2)Benoit vs Bret-3rd Nitro Match

3)Benoit vs Bret-1st Nitro Match

4)Benoit vs Bret Mayhem

 

The 1st and 3rd Nitro match are pretty close in quality. Benoit/Bret's 3rd Nitro match would have given the tribute match a run for its money if given more time and a non interference ending. There are two other matches but they're a little hard to evaluate because they were just simply too short.

 

It's been a while since I watched these matches but I'd still like to comment on them. The Benoit/Bret tribute match is actually underrated. For anyone who hasn't seen the unedited version of the tribute match, this is what happens during the commercial break. 1st break-Benoit works over Bret's arm

2nd Break-Hart works over Benoit's back most notably irish whipping him into the steel railing.

The action in the breaks only help add to the overall quality of the bout. Now the one thing I wanted to comment about in this match is something most people haven't taken notice of. The tribute match plays off of Benoit and Bret's previous matches big time. It's so beautiful it brings a tear to my eye.

 

Here are some of the things that I remember:

 

1)At the end of the 1st Nitro match Benoit counters Bret's attempt at a suplex into the crippler crossface

 

Tribute Match-At the end of the match Bret counters Benoit's same crossface reversal (once again from Bret's suplex attempt) move midway through Benoit's reversal attempt by using his foot to counter. Bret than proceeds to get Benoit in the sharpshooter ending the bout. This whole sequence is great as not only is it innovative but it comes off as Hart intentionally going for the suplex attempt just to let Benoit counter just so Bret could THAN counter to put Benoit in the sharpshooter. If you want to look even further deeper into this you could easily say that when Bret hit the suplex successfully earlier in the bout he was giving Benoit a false sense of security by showing to Benoit that he wasn't doing anything funny by letting Benoit counter the suplex attempt early on. Later on, as I said before Bret seemingly lets Benoit counter the suplex attempt at the end. Absolutely beautiful!

 

2)First match-Benoit hits the snap suplex, goes up to the top rope for the flying headbutt but misses

 

Tribute match-Benoit hits 3 consecutive snap suplexes before going up to the top rope to hit the headbutt. He's now successful as he learnt from the first bout that 1 snap suplex might not be enough to keep Bret down for the flying headbutt.

 

3)1st bout-Benoit hits the dragon suplex

Tribute-Bret counters the dragon suplex

 

4)3rd Bout-Benoit irish whips Bret into the corner, charges in, gets caught by Bret's boot, Benoit stumbels out and is met by a clothesline by Bret

 

Tribute-Benoit irish whips Bret in to the corner and is once again met with Bret's foot. Again Benoit stumbles back and just like Bret seemingly would set up Benoit at the end o the bout with the suplex attempt Benoit here seemingly sets up Bret by stumbling out almost asking Bret to clothesline him just so Benoit can counter what he learned from their 3rd bout. Benoit of course does counter Bret's clothesline into a dragon suplex which Bret than counters because he learnt how deadly the dragon was in Benoit/Bret's first bout. Benoit than proceeds to hit the rolling germans.

 

5)3rd Nitro Bout-Benoit counters the sharpshooter attempt midway through the match by turning it into the crossface. However, Bret's too close to the ropes so he grabs them.

 

Tribute Match-Benoit once again manages to counter an attempted suplex attempt into the crossface. Benoit realises though that once again Bret's too close to the ropes and is about to grab them so Benoit decides to "drag" Benoit back from the ropes a little bit while in the ropes. I say this also figures into the end of the match as Bret realises that the sharpshooter is now too dangerous to put on as there's a good chance Benoit will counter so he must find another way to put it on. And as we all know, he does.

 

There's probably more references to Benoit/Bret's previous matches in the tribute bout but that's all I remember as of now.

 

Some other things I love about this match(in no paricular order)-

 

1)That it's a tribute to Owen

 

2)Bret's working on Benoit's back which saves him in the end as Benoit goes for his 2nd northern lights suplex but Bret counters by just pounding away on Benoit's exposed back.

 

3)Benoit beautifully playing to the fans by looking up at them when they were getting behind Bret. Nice subtle heelness by Benoit here

 

4)The fact Benoit and Bret were even able to do this match.

 

5)How the match started up as respectful, got a little brawlish as tempers started to pick up but than turned back into a scientific contest as each wrestler realised what they were truly good at. I liked how the 1st Nitro bout started off as well as their last Thunder bout. Each match started off as different according to situations at the time.

 

6)All the manuevers which looked great. There were no flaws in the execution of anything

 

7)I liked all the transistions from offence to defence. Nicely done.

 

8)Bret's facial expressions after Benoit's nip up. Priceless.

 

9)The struggle at the end when Bret and Benoit were going for their submissions. It just made the match all the more realistic

 

10)Benoit with his "new modern" offence against Bret's "older school" tactics. I also liked the extra emphasis Bret put on his belly to back suplex(kind of like he was modernising) and Benoit's modern counter to Bret's 2nd attempt at a knee to the stomach off the ropes by turning Bret's knee into a pinning predicament. Not a normal pinning predicament however as Benoit used Bret's momentum kicking out to put Bret into a wierd upright version of a boston crab. Each wrestler was bringing new stuff to the table in order to beat the other. Absolutely magnificant. I can only imagine how good this match would've been if it actually went the proposed hour.

Edited October 5, 2003 by wildpegasus

[Guest Real F'n Show]

I've only seen the tribute match and their is no way its overrated. The only thing that brings it down is the commercial breaks and the Brain's commentary. Anyone know the dates for the first and third Nitro matches?

[Guest Askewniverse]

Dates for Bret vs. Benoit matches:

 

June 22, 1998- WCW Monday Nitro

November 16, 1998- WCW Monday Nitro

March 1, 1999- WCW Monday Nitro

October 4, 1999- WCW Monday Nitro (Owen Hart Tribute Match)

November 21, 1999- WCW Mayhem PPV

December 23, 1999- WCW Thunder

[Tawren 0]

http://www.shootangle.com/tabe/tape410.htm Uncut version of the match is on that tape. http://www.tabe.nu is the guys site.

 

The tribute match is better, but it is still violently overrated. *** from me. I think people get rose-tinted glasses because it was a tribute match for Owen.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Which one did Hart hit Benoit in the back of the head with (plastic knuckles?) to get the win?

[Guest wildpegasus]

The tribute match is better, but it is still violently overrated. *** from me. I think people get rose-tinted glasses because it was a tribute match for Owen.

I'd give it 4 1/2* and I rate hard. If this match is 3*, than there's never been a match that's even reached 3 3/4* or even 3 1/2*

 

Rico_Constantino Posted on Oct 5 2003, 03:22 PM

 

Which one did Hart hit Benoit in the back of the head with (plastic knuckles?) to get the win?

 

WP-That would be their first ever match on 6/22/98.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Hey Rico, why would there even need to be a poll on this? What prevented you from making the decision, exactly? I'm just curious as to what was on the Mayhem match that could even compare to the infinitely superior tribute match.

 

The Mayhem match sent a message that the two couldn't be trusted (thank you, Russo) to have a straight-out wrestling match without three run-ins.

[The Dames 0]

Wildpegasus,

 

Thank you for that long post. That was seriously one of the best posts I've read in quite some time. I watched the Bret/Benoit match on Nitro, but never uncut. Your post truly got me very amped and made me miss Bret Hart even more. I must get this match now.

 

Once again, thank you.

 

Dames

[Guest wildpegasus]

Thank you Dames.

 

A couple of other things of note I'd like to mention that some people might not know is

1)Scott Hudson/Shane Douglas are the commentators during the commercial breaks

2) Bret actually wanted Benoit to win the bout.

3)He also wanted to wrestle for an hour.

 

I thought that was pretty classy by Hart for wanting to lose as it was obvious he was the only main eventer trying to elevate Benoit at all. I remember the interview in the ring with Bret when he first came in WCW and started naming all the big main eventers in WCW/NWO and mentioning Benoit as the 2nd biggest name in WCW despite Benoit not even being close to the main event at the time. Fate always seemed to get in the way of a feud however as injuries and Benoit leaving simply halterd any hope for a prolonged feud.

 

Side Note-Writing about Bret made me appreciative of his work so I decided to check out Bret vs Diesil from Survivor Series 95? today. A good match that once again had great storytelling from Bret. The spots where Bret uses the exposed ringpost, ties Diesil up with wire and plays possum at the end were fantastic. Nash's selling of the leg was really good here too. Bret truly was in a class of his own.

[The Dames 0]

People always say that Kevin Nash's best match was against Shawn Michaels at Best Friends: Better Enemies, but that Survivor Series '95 match was just as good in my opinion. Nash actually showed that he can sell when he wants to.

 

Then again, that was 8 years ago. Damn...

 

Dames

[Lil' Bitch 0]

November 16, 1998- WCW Monday Nitro

March 1, 1999- WCW Monday Nitro

December 23, 1999- WCW Thunder

 

Did Benoit win any of these?

[Guest Askewniverse]

November 16, 1998- WCW Monday Nitro

March 1, 1999- WCW Monday Nitro

December 23, 1999- WCW Thunder

 

Did Benoit win any of these?

Benoit won all three of those matches by DQ.

[Guest The Real Nosferatu]

***?!?!?!?!!?!

 

 

I've seen Scott Keith give *** matches out to Kidman v. Noble.

 

Your Telling me Bret v. Benoit is only fucking THREE STARS?!?!?!

 

Sure, everyone's entitled to their own opinion but...THREE?!?!

[Mystery Eskimo 0]

I'd say ****, but I can understand ***. Its good, but it just lacks an edge for me.

[Tawren 0]

***?!?!?!?!!?!

 

 

I've seen Scott Keith give *** matches out to Kidman v. Noble.

 

Your Telling me Bret v. Benoit is only fucking THREE STARS?!?!?!

 

Sure, everyone's entitled to their own opinion but...THREE?!?!

I'm not Scott Keith, though.

 

My reasoning for *** is that (to me) it lacks flow (a lot of stuff seems to come from nowhere), Hart is very sloppy several times, and it just lacks that "big feel" to me. I can understand why you guys like it, but to me, it isn't all that great.