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Guest unleashedfury

VERY interesting report on who draw viewers in WWE

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Angle's a main eventer, so he should draw.  Benoit & Eddy were midcarders for most of this period, so they are the guys who should be getting pushed.  The current main eventers aren't drawing buyrates (although I still think Angle & Brock have potential, just with better opponents), so Eddy & Benoit are the guys that should be next on the list to try.

I still don't think Angle and Brock were portrayed as the main eventers. It's not fair to them to blame them when the central angle on the show and ALL the advertising dollars market the McMahon match on the same PPV. It's as if they're a second-tier main event; the real wrestling main event, but not the one with any promotion.

 

I agree on the position of Benoit and Guerrero though - midcarders (or in Benoit's case, flipping between midcarder and lower carder on a consistent basis) who just shine through in TV ratings.

 

Jason

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Angle's a main eventer, so he should draw.  Benoit & Eddy were midcarders for most of this period, so they are the guys who should be getting pushed.  The current main eventers aren't drawing buyrates (although I still think Angle & Brock have potential, just with better opponents), so Eddy & Benoit are the guys that should be next on the list to try.

I still don't think Angle and Brock were portrayed as the main eventers. It's not fair to them to blame them when the central angle on the show and ALL the advertising dollars market the McMahon match on the same PPV. It's as if they're a second-tier main event; the real wrestling main event, but not the one with any promotion.

 

Jason

Good point.

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Also, here is more proof that even with the McMahon's, Smackdown is better than RAW. For the Smackdown guys, the amount drawn is generally in proportion with their position on the card.

 

On RAW, this is all over the place with pseudo-maineventers like Randy Orton, Kevin Nash and Shawn Michaels not drawing well, and the midcarders that they are pushing (Test, Mack, Maven) doing terrible. Meanwhile, Christian & Jericho are drawing despite being treated like jobbers every week.

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Guest TheGame2705
Angle's a main eventer, so he should draw.  Benoit & Eddy were midcarders for most of this period, so they are the guys who should be getting pushed.  The current main eventers aren't drawing buyrates (although I still think Angle & Brock have potential, just with better opponents), so Eddy & Benoit are the guys that should be next on the list to try.

I still don't think Angle and Brock were portrayed as the main eventers. It's not fair to them to blame them when the central angle on the show and ALL the advertising dollars market the McMahon match on the same PPV. It's as if they're a second-tier main event; the real wrestling main event, but not the one with any promotion.

 

I agree on the position of Benoit and Guerrero though - midcarders (or in Benoit's case, flipping between midcarder and lower carder on a consistent basis) who just shine through in TV ratings.

 

Jason

How much more "real" main event do you need to be if you're already in the main event of Wrestlemania? Stop making excuses.

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Guest Anglesault

I think Test should be humiliated and publically fired for being such a failure.

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Guest THE MIGHTY THOR
Going by those figures, Vince is the biggest draw in the company at the moment.

 

VINCE MCMAHON.

 

Maybe he knows what he's doing afterall.

 

UYI

That's not the case, Vince appears in SD on almost every segment and usually at the beginning of,middle of or end of the show where viewers usually switch to SD to see what's going on. Just like HHH, when you make someone the main character/focus of the show 9 times out of 10 people will watch you.

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My Smackdown analysis:

 

Kurt Angle +6,032,000 +402,130

Right about where he should be as a "this close to the top guy pushed" guy.

A-Train +350,000 +70,000

Who has he feuded with the past 4 months? He was in the Stephanie/Sable feud and the Benoit feud. The Stephanie feud went nowhere, so that leaves us with Benoit. Now, if his ratings are only up +70,000, and he's feuding with one of the top ratings getters (despite Benoit's status), what does that say about his other Smackdown appearances? They had to be negatives, or else his number would be higher.

Basham Brothers +439,000 +43,900

Not bad.

Shelton Benjamin +3,350,000 +304,545

Absolutely phenominal, especially for a tag wrestler, to get a vote of confidence from the public like this.

Chris Benoit +3,425,000 +311,360

Once again, I believe this is the ultimate proof that people want to see Chris Benoit, and I hope everyone finally shuts up about this. He was treated like crap in the midcard or lower over the last 4 months, and he still gets an average of over 300,000 MORE people watching his segments than the one before him.

John Cena +322,000 +22,130

This has to be extremely disappointing for Vince.

FBI -188,000 -29,500

Expected, given their push.

Zach Gowen +7,269,000 +484,600

He should have this high of viewership - he was the main event angle for a major portion of this survey. But, that doesn't mean that people wanted to pay to see him (which is what a main eventer should have people do); his buyrate with Vince was terrible at Vengeance (and if you think that wasn't the most heavily promoted match, thus qualifying as the main event to the people, you're kidding).

Eddy Guerrero +4,966,000 +310,375

Just like Benoit, this a huge vote of confidence for a midcarder from the public.

Billy Gunn +1,676,000 +279,330

I'll be quite honest, this is a shock. Here's a case, however, where you have to think in terms of quality and safety; Gunn blows up two minutes into matches and then becomes a danger to whomever he's in the ring with.

Charlie Haas +4,787,000 +299,190

Just like Benjamin, a huge vote from the public to a tag wrestler.

Matt Hardy +243,000 +20,250

This is a shame that Matt Hardy is pushed so crappily that people don't even care about him anymore. I remember his main event with Mysterio getting a good audience, but he's rarely on Smackdown anymore.

Hulk Hogan +3,746,000 +468,250

See Zach Gowen... main event push, but do people pay to see him on PPV? WM XIX, Backlash 2002, Judgment Day 2002 proved no.

Brock Lesnar +5,879,000 +326,610

Just like Kurt Angle, a solid number for someone who is just under the top tier of pushed.

Stephanie McMahon +6,201,000 +620,100

Vince McMahon +11,263,000 +625,720

These two get the biggest pushes on the show and thus should have the biggest numbers. BUT, they are not wrestlers and this will mean nothing if their match at No Mercy (which is the main event, no matter what anyone wants to believe) draws poorly (which everyone thinks it will).

Shannon Moore -250,000 -50,000

Expected.

Rey Misterio +1,106,000 +100,550

This is a very good number for someone who rarely gets pushed.

Nidia -444,000 -111,000

Jamie Noble +65,000 +8,130

The huge difference between manager and wrestler is astonishing. The thing about it is that Nidia, when wrestling, has crappy matches with Torrie Wilson and people don't want to see them.

Rhyno +1,181,000 +131,220

Looks big, but remember his main feud was with Benoit (huge ratings) and Guerrero (same as Benoit). So after those feuds, his numbers had to have dropped substantially. This could either be people wanted to see Benoit/Guerrero and didn't care about him anyway OR because of his lack of push

Rikishi -443,000 -110,750

Who cares?

Big Show +3,895,000 +299,620

Good numbers, but he was in the second tier of workers (right under Gowen/Hogan/McMahons) with Brock and Angle for the whole time, and he gets worse numbers than Benoit/Guerrero/Benjamin and Angle/Brock.

Spanky +51,000 +12,750

Expected.

Tajiri +1,166,000 +89,690

See Rhyno, but also he has a feud with cruisers now, and they get shafted anyway in pushes from the bookers, so this might not be his fault.

Undertaker +2,265,000 +226,500

This has to be a very disappointing number for WWE.

Torrie Wilson -284,000 -56,800

See Nidia.

 

Raw is coming next.

 

Jason

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HHH +6,944,000 +408,470

Booker T -424,000 -70,670

Rob Van Dam +747,000 +53,360

 

Ha! Am I actually reading this right? They lose viewers when Booker T is on screen! If so, "the ironing is delicious!" [that's a Simpsons reference for anyone who thinks that I don't know how to spell irony]

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How much more "real" main event do you need to be if you're already in the main event of Wrestlemania? Stop making excuses.

When you say main event, I think you mean last match.

 

When I say main event (especially with ratings/buys), I mean the most heavily promoted match on the card. For Smackdown at WrestleMania, that was obviously (and you can't deny it wasn't... see the front of the video/DVD sleeve for a reminder), it was Vince/Hogan. On the Raw side, the most heavily promoted match was Rock/Austin. Brock/Angle was, at best, the third most promoted match at WM.

 

Jason

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When I say main event (especially with ratings/buys), I mean the most heavily promoted match on the card.

 

For Vengeance, that was obviously McMahon / Gowen and McMahon / Sable.

 

Of course, nobody in their right mind would PAY to see those so its no wonder Vengeance flopped. I HOPE the same happens to No Mercy.

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Guest TheGame2705
How much more "real" main event do you need to be if you're already in the main event of Wrestlemania? Stop making excuses.

When you say main event, I think you mean last match.

 

When I say main event (especially with ratings/buys), I mean the most heavily promoted match on the card. For Smackdown at WrestleMania, that was obviously (and you can't deny it wasn't... see the front of the video/DVD sleeve for a reminder), it was Vince/Hogan. On the Raw side, the most heavily promoted match was Rock/Austin. Brock/Angle was, at best, the third most promoted match at WM.

 

Jason

Hogan/Vince was advertised a lot but it wasn't as if Brock/Angle was neglected. I would chalk it up to people not wanting to watch Vince and Hogan but WM wasn't the only time Brock and Angle failed to deliver.

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Guest Anglesault
Angle's a main eventer, so he should draw.  Benoit & Eddy were midcarders for most of this period, so they are the guys who should be getting pushed.  The current main eventers aren't drawing buyrates (although I still think Angle & Brock have potential, just with better opponents), so Eddy & Benoit are the guys that should be next on the list to try.

I still don't think Angle and Brock were portrayed as the main eventers. It's not fair to them to blame them when the central angle on the show and ALL the advertising dollars market the McMahon match on the same PPV. It's as if they're a second-tier main event; the real wrestling main event, but not the one with any promotion.

 

I agree on the position of Benoit and Guerrero though - midcarders (or in Benoit's case, flipping between midcarder and lower carder on a consistent basis) who just shine through in TV ratings.

 

Jason

How much more "real" main event do you need to be if you're already in the main event of Wrestlemania? Stop making excuses.

It wasn't promoted as the ME of Mania.

 

I'm sure if you compare total TV time and ad time (including 3rd Degree, which Vince/Hogan dominated) the discrepancy will be huge.

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Guest TheGame2705

My problem isn't with Angle it's with Brock to be honest. Brock was given an undeserving push right from the get go, didn't deliver in buyrates or TV ratings or in the ring. Angle's shown he isn't worthless. When Angle got pushed, he got heat. It took Brock from March to November to get heat and after defeating Hogan, Taker, The Rock, both Hardyz, and RVD. Brock also got the World title 5 mos. into his reign.

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"Torrie Wilson -284,000 -56,800"

 

BWAHAHAHAHAH!! FUUUUUCK YOOOUUUU, TORRIE!!!

 

I'm proud to say I was one of those who switched channels when she came on.

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I agree that Brock's push was ridiculous and shouldn't have happened that fast.

 

I don't know Vince so I don't know what got him to do that. My best explanation is that Vince saw something in Brock and gave him the ball to run with.

 

But I've been a Brock fan since his RAW debut and despite the poor buyrates, he was in very good matches with Rock, Undertaker (HIAC), and Angle that I enjoyed very much so.

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My Raw Analysis

 

Steve Austin +6,873,000 +429,560

Eric Bischoff +2,671,000 +381,570

Authority figures who can't wrestle and get the most TV time, as we see on Smackdown, should get more viewers.

Garrison Cade -163,000 -27,170

Expected.

Christian +2,245,000 +132,060

This is a pretty dang good number for not being involved in PPVs (such as SummerSlam).

Dudleys -412,000 -37,450

Not too good for the team who was tag champs during part of the timeframe.

Spike Dudley -707,000 -117,830

Not unexpected at the very least.

Ric Flair +5,078,000 +282,110

Pretty good numbers for a lackey, but he is almost always with HHH, so that could inflate his numbers. However, he does wrestle sometimes without HHH, so maybe he's still a partial ratings draw.

Mick Foley +2,870,000 +574,000

Main event angle authority figure... see Austin and Bischoff.

Bill Goldberg +6,833,000 +427,060

These should be high, although they're higher than they should be. He was not a main eventer (also defined as being programmed with HHH) for the whole time period, and he got bigger numbers than HHH.

HHH +6,944,000 +408,470

For his influence on the show, these should be higher. Not saying they're bad numbers, but they aren't good for being world champ and focus of the show every week.

Molly Holly +46,000 +5,110

Hurricane -900,000 -69,230

Not being pushed and rarely being on TV does give these results.

Chris Jericho +7,071,000 +261,890

Chris Jericho is like Benoit and Guerrero and the WGTT on Smackdown - push him to the moon, because people want to see him even when he's being treated as second-rate.

Mark Jindrak -1,091,000 -181,830

Expected.

Kane +3,774,000 +251,600

As someone who is pushed to the moon (at least until Shane the Barbarian showed his wrath), these are decent numbers. Similar to an Angle/Brock, he was just under the top tier.

Gail Kim +1,413,000 +235,500

Total shock of all shocks. She sucks, but gets ratings. So, the obvious answer is to make her a valet.

Rodney Mack -1,983,000 -180,270

The joke is played out already, but people don't back the Mack. Get him off the TV. Since Mark Henry is not listed, he's probably in the same category as Mack, so get him off too.

Maven -1,029,000 -114,330

Being pushed, but not drawing at all.

Shawn Michaels +2,396,000 +266,220

Decent numbers, but he gets pushed better than Jericho and gets worse numbers.

Kevin Nash +1,575,000 +143,180

The main eventer for two PPVs before leaving for an injury got numbers that are laughable for someone who was at the top of the card.

Randy Orton +1,413,000 +88,310

These numbers are way below his push level.

La Resistance -745,000 -41,390

Not good for tag champs during part of the time period.

Rosey -1,092,000 -156,000

Not pushed at all, so it's expected.

Scott Steiner +306,000 +30,600

Lance Storm +413,000 +41,300

Not bad for either, especially Storm after that terrible gimmick.

Trish Stratus -965,000 -96,500

How this is possible, and Gail Kim got so high, is ridiculous.

Booker T -424,000 -70,670

People wanted to see Booker before WrestleMania, and now they don't. But this is kinda indicitive of his push level - getting beat by the heel and needing Austin to reverse the decision every week is not what people want to see. No excuses other than that though, because this number is not good at all. Also proves he isn't a Jericho/Benoit/Guerrero that people want to see in spite of a push.

Test -1,174,000 -117,400

Push should warrant at least positive numbers.

Rob Van Dam +747,000 +53,360

Most of these are probably from the ladder match main event. Otherwise, he's similar to Booker T except he didn't get the short hand of a feud with Christian in the same way Booker did. But (this may sound like a backhanded compliment, but not really), these numbers aren't bad. Just not good, and proves RVD is not someone like Jericho/Benoit/Guerrero that people want to see despite the push.

 

Jason

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Guest THE MIGHTY THOR
Chris Jericho +7,071,000 +261,890

HHH +6,944,000 +408,470

Rob Van Dam +747,000 +53,360

 

Poor RVD

Jericho appears on the show more times than RVD, either he is cutting a long promo/the highlight reel or in a match or sometimes you see him in skits with Bischoff or Austin, RVD gets a match, maybe a main event match every now and then but he rarely gets to cut promos or skits, and HHH appears on RAW on almost every segment, even when he is not around he still appears on the show.For a guy that's been misused so bad RVD is lucky he's still got any viewers left.

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Trish Stratus -965,000 -96,500

 

How this is possible, and Gail Kim got so high, is ridiculous.

 

"Hey Jethro, lookie here! That stupid Chinese girl who fucks up all her moves is on rasslin' now! This is funny, check it out!"

 

Although when you say "got so high" I get the amusing mental picture of Gail smoking a bowl with RVD.

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Trish Stratus -965,000 -96,500

 

How this is possible, and Gail Kim got so high, is ridiculous.

 

"Hey Jethro, lookie here! That stupid Chinese girl who fucks up all her moves is on rasslin' now! This is funny, check it out!"

 

Although when you say "got so high" I get the amusing mental picture of Gail smoking a bowl with RVD.

I'd edit some of it, but trying to edit a post with 20000000 quotes in it is suicide. It goes into HTML mode, and I'll be darned if I know that.

 

Jason

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Guest TheGame2705

I ordered everything and found out the number of segments. I haven't analyzed it yet. Take from it what you will.

 

 

Smackdown

---------------------------------------

Total Viewers

Vince McMahon 11263000

Zach Gowen 7269000

Stephanie McMahon 6201000

Kurt Angle 6032000

Brock Lesnar 5879000

Eddy Guerrero 4966000

Charlie Haas 4787000

Big Show 3895000

Hulk Hogan 3746000

Chris Benoit 3425000

Shelton Benjamin 3350000

Undertaker 2265000

Billy Gunn 1676000

Rhyno 1181000

Tajiri 1166000

Rey Misterio 1106000

Basham Brothers 439000

A-Train 350000

John Cena 322000

Matt Hardy 243000

Jamie Noble 65000

Spanky 51000

FBI -188000

Shannon Moore -250000

Torrie Wilson -284000

Rikishi -443000

Nidia -444000

 

Average Viewers Per Segment

Vince McMahon 625720

Stephanie McMahon 620100

Zach Gowen 484600

Hulk Hogan 468250

Kurt Angle 402130

Brock Lesnar 326610

Chris Benoit 311360

Eddy Guerrero 310375

Shelton Benjamin 304545

Big Show 299620

Charlie Haas 299190

Billy Gunn 279330

Undertaker 226500

Rhyno 131220

Rey Misterio 100550

Tajiri 89690

A-Train 70000

Basham Brothers 43900

John Cena 22130

Matt Hardy 20250

Spanky 12750

Jamie Noble 8130

FBI -29500

Shannon Moore -50000

Torrie Wilson -56800

Rikishi -110750

Nidia -111000

 

Number of Segments

Vince McMahon 18

Brock Lesnar 18

Eddy Guerrero 16

Charlie Haas 16

Kurt Angle 15

Zach Gowen 15

John Cena 15

Tajiri 13

Big Show 13

Matt Hardy 12

Chris Benoit 11

Shelton Benjamin 11

Rey Misterio 11

Basham Brothers 10

Stephanie McMahon 10

Undertaker 10

Rhyno 9

Hulk Hogan 8

Jamie Noble 8

FBI 6

Billy Gunn 6

A-Train 5

Shannon Moore 5

Torrie Wilson 5

Nidia 4

Rikishi 4

Spanky 4

 

RAW

----------------------------------

Total Viewers

Chris Jericho 7071000

HHH 6944000

Steve Austin 6873000

Bill Goldberg 6833000

Ric Flair 5078000

Kane 3774000

Mick Foley 2870000

Eric Bischoff 2671000

Shawn Michaels 2396000

Christian 2245000

Kevin Nash 1575000

Gail Kim 1413000

Randy Orton 1413000

Rob Van Dam 747000

Lance Storm 413000

Scott Steiner 306000

Molly Holly 46000

Garrison Cade -163000

Dudleys -412000

Booker T -424000

Spike Dudley -707000

La Resistance -745000

Hurricane -900000

Trish Stratus -965000

Maven -1029000

Mark Jindrak -1091000

Rosey -1092000

Test -1174000

Rodney Mack -1983000

 

Average Per Segment

Mick Foley 574000

Steve Austin 429560

Bill Goldberg 427060

HHH 408470

Eric Bischoff 381570

Ric Flair 282110

Shawn Michaels 266220

Chris Jericho 261890

Kane 251600

Gail Kim 235500

Kevin Nash 143180

Christian 132060

Randy Orton 88310

Rob Van Dam 53360

Lance Storm 41300

Scott Steiner 30600

Molly Holly 5110

Garrison Cade -27170

Dudleys -37450

La Resistance -41390

Hurricane -69230

Booker T -70670

Trish Stratus -96500

Maven -114330

Test -117400

Spike Dudley -117830

Rosey -156000

Rodney Mack -180270

Mark Jindrak -181830

 

Number of Segments

Chris Jericho 27

Ric Flair 18

La Resistance 18

HHH 17

Christian 17

Randy Orton 16

Bill Goldberg 16

Steve Austin 16

Kane 15

Rob Van Dam 14

Hurricane 13

Dudleys 11

Rodney Mack 11

Kevin Nash 11

Lance Storm 10

Scott Steiner 10

Test 10

Trish Stratus 10

Molly Holly 9

Maven 9

Shawn Michaels 9

Eric Bischoff 7

Rosey 7

Spike Dudley 6

Mark Jindrak 6

Gail Kim 6

Booker T 6

Garrison Cade 6

Mick Foley 5

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Guest ToddRoyal

I think its hillarious how people are spinning these numbers. When Benoit/Eddy/Jericho get +250/+350 its all "YA! See, I TOLD you they were draws!" but when RVD, Booker T or another midcarded with an equal push gets +50/-50 its like "Well, they weren't pushed enough!"

 

I mean I like Booker T and all (I don't like RVD, but thats another story), but you can't say his push was signifcantly less than Benoit. In the same way, Matt Hardy wasn't pushed dramatically less than Christian (both were upper mid-carders with joke title reigns) but his dramatically lower numbers are explained away.

 

Not all "smark darlings" are draws, whether we like it or not. I think we should be thrilled that Benoit, Guerrero, WGTT etc are draws and not try to rationalize guys like Booker T and RVD into something they're not.

 

On another note, this does prove that huge pops don't always equal ratings. RVD, Hurricane, Trish and even Rikishi get huge reactions from live crowds, but obviouslt aren't something home viewers want to see.

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Guest Anglesault
My problem isn't with Angle it's with Brock to be honest. Brock was given an undeserving push right from the get go, didn't deliver in buyrates or TV ratings or in the ring. Angle's shown he isn't worthless. When Angle got pushed, he got heat. It took Brock from March to November to get heat and after defeating Hogan, Taker, The Rock, both Hardyz, and RVD. Brock also got the World title 5 mos. into his reign.

It's still not fair to blame Mania on him.

 

Mania was based and sold completely on McMahon/Hogan.

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Guest Mulatto Heat

So so so much to say here.

 

First off, thanks unleashedfury for posting this. I've been waiting for something like this for quite awhile.

 

Kahran is right in that SD's ratings correlate better with who is getting pushed or not, while RAW it is very unpredictable. Gee, more vindication of sorts for me not having a use for the show. The dropkick boyz doing horribly? As well as the Dudleyz and the Frenchiez? GASP! Test in the negatives column and Steiner the lowest of those in the positives? Great! Kane's numbers are mediocre considering what he was drawing during the summer - boy, Shane fucked him up good. Orton and Nash's poor numbers don't justify their positions. Bischoff and Flair were losing viewers around this time last year (Flair especially), so at least it's good for them to do a 180.

 

Let's see, Benoit draws better than Taker, Cena, Matt, Eddy, Rey, and Show. Gee, I thought he was SUPPOSED to be ratings death. Guess that just doesn't apply now, hmm? Keep in mind that this period included his "losing streak phase". Hopefully this will shut a few detractors up and if not, I'll be remembering this for a long time anyway.

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I think its hillarious how people are spinning these numbers. When Benoit/Eddy/Jericho get +250/+350 its all "YA! See, I TOLD you they were draws!" but when RVD, Booker T or another midcarded with an equal push gets +50/-50 its like "Well, they weren't pushed enough!"

 

I mean I like Booker T and all (I don't like RVD, but thats another story), but you can't say his push was signifcantly less than Benoit. In the same way, Matt Hardy wasn't pushed dramatically less than Christian (both were upper mid-carders with joke title reigns) but his dramatically lower numbers are explained away.

 

Not all "smark darlings" are draws, whether we like it or not. I think we should be thrilled that Benoit, Guerrero, WGTT etc are draws and not try to rationalize guys like Booker T and RVD into something they're not.

 

On another note, this does prove that huge pops don't always equal ratings. RVD, Hurricane, Trish and even Rikishi get huge reactions from live crowds, but obviouslt aren't something home viewers want to see.

I don't think I made any excuses. I clearly said when someone didn't do as well as they should have, that they are not up to expectations. Some of those people may have reasonings behind them, though.

 

I think Booker's push was less than Benoit, actually. Benoit was treated horribly (well worse than he should be, actually), but Booker was put in an IC title feud, and eventually won it after some crappy ways of keeping the title on Christian. So, what happens after that? Booker keeps the title by using Dusty finishes (aka heel tactics) after Christian beats him pretty fairly numerous times. What kind of person wants to watch that? At least Benoit, while facing lugs like A-Train and being depushed, still kept his dignity in feuds.

 

Of course, no matter how it happened, people don't want to really see Booker T anymore. They DID before WrestleMania, but not anymore.

 

RVD is similar to Benoit, and even got more segments than Benoit. No "excuses" for RVD other than getting buried by HHH last year. People just don't really want to see him anymore. It's not really his fault, but it is what it is.

 

Jason

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Guest Anglesault
Let's see, Benoit draws better than Taker, Cena, Matt, Eddy, Rey, and Show.

Aren't Eddy's over all numbers better?

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