the jericho/trish angle

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

and the variety comes in the minor things...Rock vs Austin, both "needed" that World Title. HHH and Rock both wanted to be better then the other. Austin wanted to get rid of the aging Bret. The variety is made up in the simple backstories...they don't need necrophilia to makeup the "variety" behind the feud.

yeah but none of these backstories get people talking. good for us, bad for business.

How is it bad for business? The Bret/Austin feud is one of the things that really heightened the popularity of Austin. People loved the Rock/Austin feud as well as the HHH/Rock feud.

 

Find me a successful storyline that didn't have all the aspects that we have been mentioning. Then find me a successful storyline written the way you're talking about.

 

The minute Vince started hiring writers who don't know about wrestling is when he lost sight of what really made all the successful storylines successful...they were based on wrestling and heightened by the drama and the characters involved.

 

Austin/McMahon would have been nothing if it wasn't based on Vince not wanting Austin to be champ. If it were Vince not wanting Austin to get a woman or a shampoo commercial then it would have never worked.

 

Vince has said so himself that sometimes he feels he's out of touch with today's viewers and his answer to that was to bring in soap opera-like writers and it hasn't helped. In fact it's probably driven away more viewers than it's brought in.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

We aren't arguing your contributions, etc. Not me at least, I'm just arguing the fact that Crash TV isn't the way to go because once again, times are changing and this business is cyclical. Once something begins to die down and not work as effectively, it's time to try something new(Like what the WWF did during 96'/97' as they moved into the "Attitude" era which ironically was similar to what ECW had been doing in 94' and 95')

[Guest robvandam420]

dramatic to us. but the average fan doesn't care enough about real wrestling to be caught up. thats why vince hires soap writers. they know how to hook people.

And they're certainly doing a good job of that. Because you know ratings are so much better than they were in 98-00.

one reason ratings were so great then is the talent. with austin and rock being used properly, they had some of the best entertainers of the century on the same show. there is no possible way that cant draw.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

dramatic to us. but the average fan doesn't care enough about real wrestling to be caught up. thats why vince hires soap writers. they know how to hook people.

And they're certainly doing a good job of that. Because you know ratings are so much better than they were in 98-00.

one reason ratings were so great then is the talent. with austin and rock being used properly, they had some of the best entertainers of the century on the same show. there is no possible way that cant draw.

Nowadays though have just as good talent...

 

Chris Jericho

Kurt Angle

Undertaker

Steve Austin

Christian

Rob Van Dam

Edge

Scott Steiner

 

Those are just some of the names that could be more entertaining if given something like an angle based on hatred or jealousy

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

dramatic to us. but the average fan doesn't care enough about real wrestling to be caught up. thats why vince hires soap writers. they know how to hook people.

And they're certainly doing a good job of that. Because you know ratings are so much better than they were in 98-00.

one reason ratings were so great then is the talent. with austin and rock being used properly, they had some of the best entertainers of the century on the same show. there is no possible way that cant draw.

Then there is no excuse for WWE to be so bad right now because they have one of their best rosters ever.

[Shanghai Kid 0]

Man you might as well change the name of the thread, people like me who came in here to read about Jericho and Trish are dissapointed.

[Guest robvandam420]

dramatic to us. but the average fan doesn't care enough about real wrestling to be caught up. thats why vince hires soap writers. they know how to hook people.

And they're certainly doing a good job of that. Because you know ratings are so much better than they were in 98-00.

one reason ratings were so great then is the talent. with austin and rock being used properly, they had some of the best entertainers of the century on the same show. there is no possible way that cant draw.

Nowadays though have just as good talent...

 

Chris Jericho

Kurt Angle

Undertaker

Steve Austin

Christian

Rob Van Dam

Edge

Scott Steiner

 

Those are just some of the names that could be more entertaining if given something like an angle based on hatred or jealousy

all os these guys you mention are good, but they are not the total package like rock or austin is. out of the three most important things that makes a wrestler, none of these guys has more than two. those being charisma(in ring), mic work, and working consistantly good matches. angle and jericho are the only ones who are close, but not quite as good total package wise.

[chaosrage 0]

dramatic to us. but the average fan doesn't care enough about real wrestling to be caught up. thats why vince hires soap writers. they know how to hook people.

And they're certainly doing a good job of that. Because you know ratings are so much better than they were in 98-00.

one reason ratings were so great then is the talent. with austin and rock being used properly, they had some of the best entertainers of the century on the same show. there is no possible way that cant draw.

What the hell are you talking about? In 1998, the only big names they had were Austin and Undertaker. They built the Rock, HHH, and Mankind up from nothing. Something they can't seem to do with Rob Van Dam, Jericho, or Benoit despite every opportunity they've been given to do it. There's no excuse when a guy like Benoit gets a standing ovation at the main event of a PPV and then instead of using that to make him into something like they would have in 98, he's suddenly lumped into a tag team, losing matches every week, getting no mic time, and missing PPVs. They have no talent now because they insist on using the same wrestlers at the top and that's really all there is to it. Thank your soap opera writers.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Nowadays though have just as good talent...

 

Chris Jericho

Kurt Angle

Undertaker

Steve Austin

Christian

Rob Van Dam

Edge

Scott Steiner

 

Those are just some of the names that could be more entertaining if given something like an angle based on hatred or jealousy

all os these guys you mention are good, but they are not the total package like rock or austin is. out of the three most important things that makes a wrestler, none of these guys has more than two. those being charisma(in ring), mic work, and working consistantly good matches. angle and jericho are the only ones who are close, but not quite as good total package wise.

Remember when The Rock was the blue chipper, Rocky Maivia? Remember when Steve Austin was The Ringmaster? Back then, people probably would've thought the same thing as you're thinking in that they didn't have the total package(Hell, Foley admitted in his back that he thought Maivia should've been canned when in his blue chipper days) so it's not about the total package but rather how the wrestler is presented. Heck, they may even evolve into a total package.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

dramatic to us. but the average fan doesn't care enough about real wrestling to be caught up. thats why vince hires soap writers. they know how to hook people.

And they're certainly doing a good job of that. Because you know ratings are so much better than they were in 98-00.

one reason ratings were so great then is the talent. with austin and rock being used properly, they had some of the best entertainers of the century on the same show. there is no possible way that cant draw.

Nowadays though have just as good talent...

 

Chris Jericho

Kurt Angle

Undertaker

Steve Austin

Christian

Rob Van Dam

Edge

Scott Steiner

 

Those are just some of the names that could be more entertaining if given something like an angle based on hatred or jealousy

all os these guys you mention are good, but they are not the total package like rock or austin is. out of the three most important things that makes a wrestler, none of these guys has more than two. those being charisma(in ring), mic work, and working consistantly good matches. angle and jericho are the only ones who are close, but not quite as good total package wise.

All the more reason for WWE to be building new stars, but they aren't doing a very good job of that either.

 

The deal with Rock, Austin, and all those guys is they were at one point directionless and in Rock's case at one point charismaless. Both Rock and Austin built their legacy with great feuds and good storylines. Rock had the Nation and his drastic heel change and Austin had his drastic character change, KOTR, and his feud with Bret.

 

The players are there...WWE just has to develop something good for them and that doesn't include the storylines they're putting out nowdays.

[Guest robvandam420]

dramatic to us. but the average fan doesn't care enough about real wrestling to be caught up. thats why vince hires soap writers. they know how to hook people.

And they're certainly doing a good job of that. Because you know ratings are so much better than they were in 98-00.

one reason ratings were so great then is the talent. with austin and rock being used properly, they had some of the best entertainers of the century on the same show. there is no possible way that cant draw.

What the hell are you talking about? In 1998, the only big names they had were Austin and Undertaker. They built the Rock, HHH, and Mankind up from nothing. Something they can't seem to do with Rob Van Dam, Jericho, or Benoit despite every opportunity they've been given to do it. There's no excuse when a guy like Benoit gets a standing ovation at the main event of a PPV and then instead of using that to make him into something like they would have in 98, he's suddenly lumped into a tag team, losing matches every week, getting no mic time, and missing PPVs. They have no talent now because they insist on using the same wrestlers at the top and that's really all there is to it. Thank your soap opera writers.

he got the standing o because he can work like no other. he cannot draw though. he doesn't have the charisma.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

he got the standing o because he can work like no other. he cannot draw though. he doesn't have the charisma.

How would they know?

 

THEY'VE NEVER TRIED PUTTING HIM AS A MAJOR FOCUS!!!!

 

Maybe if they TRIED it, it COULD be successful.

 

Not saying it WOULD, but we'll never know until someone takes a risk!

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

he got the standing o because he can work like no other. he cannot draw though. he doesn't have the charisma.

How would they know?

 

THEY'VE NEVER TRIED PUTTING HIM AS A MAJOR FOCUS!!!!

 

Maybe if they TRIED it, it COULD be successful.

 

Not saying it WOULD, but we'll never know until someone takes a risk!

Really. That's the story with most stars in WWE.

 

I keep hearing people say "they can't draw" like it's been tried before and they had proof to back those claims. They don't have proof because it hasn't been tried.

 

What does WWE have to lose in trying?? They've done far worse stuff!!

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

It personally pisses me off that WWE has no qualms in taking chances on things like Katie Vick, but they have no balls to take chances on their own wrestlers.

[Guest robvandam420]

dramatic to us. but the average fan doesn't care enough about real wrestling to be caught up. thats why vince hires soap writers. they know how to hook people.

And they're certainly doing a good job of that. Because you know ratings are so much better than they were in 98-00.

one reason ratings were so great then is the talent. with austin and rock being used properly, they had some of the best entertainers of the century on the same show. there is no possible way that cant draw.

Nowadays though have just as good talent...

 

Chris Jericho

Kurt Angle

Undertaker

Steve Austin

Christian

Rob Van Dam

Edge

Scott Steiner

 

Those are just some of the names that could be more entertaining if given something like an angle based on hatred or jealousy

all os these guys you mention are good, but they are not the total package like rock or austin is. out of the three most important things that makes a wrestler, none of these guys has more than two. those being charisma(in ring), mic work, and working consistantly good matches. angle and jericho are the only ones who are close, but not quite as good total package wise.

All the more reason for WWE to be building new stars, but they aren't doing a very good job of that either.

 

The deal with Rock, Austin, and all those guys is they were at one point directionless and in Rock's case at one point charismaless. Both Rock and Austin built their legacy with great feuds and good storylines. Rock had the Nation and his drastic heel change and Austin had his drastic character change, KOTR, and his feud with Bret.

 

The players are there...WWE just has to develop something good for them and that doesn't include the storylines they're putting out nowdays.

nope. its like hhh said. get yourself over with the crowd so management has no choice but to push you. how do you think austin got away from the ringmaster gimic? he had to be over before vince would place faith in him to get a good push. i dont think they have enough faith in any one competitor(exceot maybe hhh) to really push them to the moon. i fear it may be to late and the next new champ will be orton. i cant say i like this though.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

dramatic to us. but the average fan doesn't care enough about real wrestling to be caught up. thats why vince hires soap writers. they know how to hook people.

And they're certainly doing a good job of that. Because you know ratings are so much better than they were in 98-00.

one reason ratings were so great then is the talent. with austin and rock being used properly, they had some of the best entertainers of the century on the same show. there is no possible way that cant draw.

Nowadays though have just as good talent...

 

Chris Jericho

Kurt Angle

Undertaker

Steve Austin

Christian

Rob Van Dam

Edge

Scott Steiner

 

Those are just some of the names that could be more entertaining if given something like an angle based on hatred or jealousy

all os these guys you mention are good, but they are not the total package like rock or austin is. out of the three most important things that makes a wrestler, none of these guys has more than two. those being charisma(in ring), mic work, and working consistantly good matches. angle and jericho are the only ones who are close, but not quite as good total package wise.

All the more reason for WWE to be building new stars, but they aren't doing a very good job of that either.

 

The deal with Rock, Austin, and all those guys is they were at one point directionless and in Rock's case at one point charismaless. Both Rock and Austin built their legacy with great feuds and good storylines. Rock had the Nation and his drastic heel change and Austin had his drastic character change, KOTR, and his feud with Bret.

 

The players are there...WWE just has to develop something good for them and that doesn't include the storylines they're putting out nowdays.

nope. its like hhh said. get yourself over with the crowd so management has no choice but to push you. how do you think austin got away from the ringmaster gimic? he had to be over before vince would place faith in him to get a good push. i dont think they have enough faith in any one competitor(exceot maybe hhh) to really push them to the moon. i fear it may be to late and the next new champ will be orton. i cant say i like this though.

Ummm.......RVD.

 

He's been over with the crowd for a freakin long time and still hasn't been pushed. What HHH said is bullshit. Wrestlers can get themselves over to a point, but without backing and a good storyline they won't go anywhere.

 

Last time I checked even when Austin changed to Stone Cold he wasn't automatically over. It wasn't until the WWF put together some good storylines for him that he started to really get over.

[Guest robvandam420]

he got the standing o because he can work like no other. he cannot draw though. he doesn't have the charisma.

How would they know?

 

THEY'VE NEVER TRIED PUTTING HIM AS A MAJOR FOCUS!!!!

 

Maybe if they TRIED it, it COULD be successful.

 

Not saying it WOULD, but we'll never know until someone takes a risk!

they did, when he debuted and headlined against the rock. something from that fued made vince lose faith in him. and by now, his character is not credible enough to make a major impact. i suppose it could be done but they would really have to push him hard and out of no where. and he would need a mouthpiece.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

he got the standing o because he can work like no other. he cannot draw though. he doesn't have the charisma.

How would they know?

 

THEY'VE NEVER TRIED PUTTING HIM AS A MAJOR FOCUS!!!!

 

Maybe if they TRIED it, it COULD be successful.

 

Not saying it WOULD, but we'll never know until someone takes a risk!

they did, when he debuted and headlined against the rock. something from that fued made vince lose faith in him. and by now, his character is not credible enough to make a major impact. i suppose it could be done but they would really have to push him hard and out of no where. and he would need a mouthpiece.

No he wouldn't need a mouthpiece.

 

I consider Bret Hart one of the greatest wrestlers, yes. But I think he had, comparitively, less charisma than any Rock and Wrestling era and beyond Champion ever had. That's just my opinion.

 

Chris Benoit should by now be equivalent to Bret in WWE. But they won't let him be.

 

As for character credibility: think of this, Big Show jobbed to Jeff Hardy one month...in the next month was winning the title from Lesnar.

 

Credibility can be easily restored.

[Guest Boo_Bradley]

*loses interest, leaves.....*

[Damaramu 0]

Oh dear god. rvd you are something else.

You keep saying that this crash TV and shit works...well guess what? IT DOESN'T! No matter how much you SAY it does the ratings and buyrates say that it DOESN'T. Man you really need to step back and look at what you're saying. You're basically argueing a point that has NO backing. Good job on being an ugly little troll though.

[Guest robvandam420]

dramatic to us. but the average fan doesn't care enough about real wrestling to be caught up. thats why vince hires soap writers. they know how to hook people.

And they're certainly doing a good job of that. Because you know ratings are so much better than they were in 98-00.

one reason ratings were so great then is the talent. with austin and rock being used properly, they had some of the best entertainers of the century on the same show. there is no possible way that cant draw.

Nowadays though have just as good talent...

 

Chris Jericho

Kurt Angle

Undertaker

Steve Austin

Christian

Rob Van Dam

Edge

Scott Steiner

 

Those are just some of the names that could be more entertaining if given something like an angle based on hatred or jealousy

all os these guys you mention are good, but they are not the total package like rock or austin is. out of the three most important things that makes a wrestler, none of these guys has more than two. those being charisma(in ring), mic work, and working consistantly good matches. angle and jericho are the only ones who are close, but not quite as good total package wise.

All the more reason for WWE to be building new stars, but they aren't doing a very good job of that either.

 

The deal with Rock, Austin, and all those guys is they were at one point directionless and in Rock's case at one point charismaless. Both Rock and Austin built their legacy with great feuds and good storylines. Rock had the Nation and his drastic heel change and Austin had his drastic character change, KOTR, and his feud with Bret.

 

The players are there...WWE just has to develop something good for them and that doesn't include the storylines they're putting out nowdays.

nope. its like hhh said. get yourself over with the crowd so management has no choice but to push you. how do you think austin got away from the ringmaster gimic? he had to be over before vince would place faith in him to get a good push. i dont think they have enough faith in any one competitor(exceot maybe hhh) to really push them to the moon. i fear it may be to late and the next new champ will be orton. i cant say i like this though.

Ummm.......RVD.

 

He's been over with the crowd for a freakin long time and still hasn't been pushed. What HHH said is bullshit. Wrestlers can get themselves over to a point, but without backing and a good storyline they won't go anywhere.

 

Last time I checked even when Austin changed to Stone Cold he wasn't automatically over. It wasn't until the WWF put together some good storylines for him that he started to really get over.

they did beleive in rvd at one point. i mean how could you denie the fact that he got more heat than any two wrestlers combined. the problem is his promo skills. his character is too shallow for vince to beleive he can carry a show. i dont blame him. i love rvd, but i just cant picture him in a dramatic fued. maybe if he had a manager....

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

he got the standing o because he can work like no other. he cannot draw though. he doesn't have the charisma.

How would they know?

 

THEY'VE NEVER TRIED PUTTING HIM AS A MAJOR FOCUS!!!!

 

Maybe if they TRIED it, it COULD be successful.

 

Not saying it WOULD, but we'll never know until someone takes a risk!

they did, when he debuted and headlined against the rock. something from that fued made vince lose faith in him. and by now, his character is not credible enough to make a major impact. i suppose it could be done but they would really have to push him hard and out of no where. and he would need a mouthpiece.

They threw Benoit out there with little build up and little backstory and everyone knew he wasn't going to win. That's not trying that's just half-assing it.

 

During Benoit's run with Angle earlier this year they could have had Benoit win the title from him and atleast given it a try. He had a great build up with Angle. The matches had good heat. He got a freakin standing O from the match so what do you think would happen if his run with Angle had ended with him winning the title from him?

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I'll say it again. It's damn sad that WWE has no problems taking chances by doing necrophilia storylines, but they won't even take chances by SERIOUSLY pushing someone who is actually over with the crowd.

[Damaramu 0]

Well of course they won't. If they're anything like this guy they can't logically string together what's good and what works.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I'm done. I'm not going to argue with this guy. We've provided proof and examples to back our claims. He's just spouting off WWE talk that hasn't produced results in a long time.

[Guest robvandam420]

he got the standing o because he can work like no other. he cannot draw though. he doesn't have the charisma.

How would they know?

 

THEY'VE NEVER TRIED PUTTING HIM AS A MAJOR FOCUS!!!!

 

Maybe if they TRIED it, it COULD be successful.

 

Not saying it WOULD, but we'll never know until someone takes a risk!

they did, when he debuted and headlined against the rock. something from that fued made vince lose faith in him. and by now, his character is not credible enough to make a major impact. i suppose it could be done but they would really have to push him hard and out of no where. and he would need a mouthpiece.

They threw Benoit out there with little build up and little backstory and everyone knew he wasn't going to win. That's not trying that's just half-assing it.

 

During Benoit's run with Angle earlier this year they could have had Benoit win the title from him and atleast given it a try. He had a great build up with Angle. The matches had good heat. He got a freakin standing O from the match so what do you think would happen if his run with Angle had ended with him winning the title from him?

he doesn't have enough charisma to be champ. they used benoit where he should be used: making high profile matches exactly what they should be, good. some guys are used for their mic work, and some for their in ring work. benoit is used for in ring only (he's fueding with a train for christ sake). i agree with them. he doesn't have all the tools to be champ.

[Guest robvandam420]

he got the standing o because he can work like no other. he cannot draw though. he doesn't have the charisma.

How would they know?

 

THEY'VE NEVER TRIED PUTTING HIM AS A MAJOR FOCUS!!!!

 

Maybe if they TRIED it, it COULD be successful.

 

Not saying it WOULD, but we'll never know until someone takes a risk!

they did, when he debuted and headlined against the rock. something from that fued made vince lose faith in him. and by now, his character is not credible enough to make a major impact. i suppose it could be done but they would really have to push him hard and out of no where. and he would need a mouthpiece.

They threw Benoit out there with little build up and little backstory and everyone knew he wasn't going to win. That's not trying that's just half-assing it.

 

During Benoit's run with Angle earlier this year they could have had Benoit win the title from him and atleast given it a try. He had a great build up with Angle. The matches had good heat. He got a freakin standing O from the match so what do you think would happen if his run with Angle had ended with him winning the title from him?

he doesn't have enough charisma to be champ. they used benoit where he should be used: making high profile matches exactly what they should be, good. some guys are used for their mic work, and some for their in ring work. benoit is used for in ring only (he's fueding with a train for christ sake). i agree with them. he doesn't have all the tools to be champ.

its called knowing the business. maybe thats why hhh is always saying you guys have no right to an opinion. you need to think deeper and for the long term here. this is not only entertainment, its a business. for any of you to say you can run that business better than the king himself is just downright ignorant. you guys read into what keller and them say too much.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I'd like to see them atleast give it a serious try before they make that decision. And by serious I mean good build up, good storyline, and both parties looking equally strong.

[Damaramu 0]

he got the standing o because he can work like no other. he cannot draw though. he doesn't have the charisma.

How would they know?

 

THEY'VE NEVER TRIED PUTTING HIM AS A MAJOR FOCUS!!!!

 

Maybe if they TRIED it, it COULD be successful.

 

Not saying it WOULD, but we'll never know until someone takes a risk!

they did, when he debuted and headlined against the rock. something from that fued made vince lose faith in him. and by now, his character is not credible enough to make a major impact. i suppose it could be done but they would really have to push him hard and out of no where. and he would need a mouthpiece.

They threw Benoit out there with little build up and little backstory and everyone knew he wasn't going to win. That's not trying that's just half-assing it.

 

During Benoit's run with Angle earlier this year they could have had Benoit win the title from him and atleast given it a try. He had a great build up with Angle. The matches had good heat. He got a freakin standing O from the match so what do you think would happen if his run with Angle had ended with him winning the title from him?

he doesn't have enough charisma to be champ. they used benoit where he should be used: making high profile matches exactly what they should be, good. some guys are used for their mic work, and some for their in ring work. benoit is used for in ring only (he's fueding with a train for christ sake). i agree with them. he doesn't have all the tools to be champ.

BLAH BLAH BLAH.

They've never tried to make him champion so they don't know. So Benoit has no charisma yet Brock does? Jesus Benoit has more heel charisma than Brock. I'd be more scared if Benoit was coming after me than Brock.

[Damaramu 0]

he got the standing o because he can work like no other. he cannot draw though. he doesn't have the charisma.

How would they know?

 

THEY'VE NEVER TRIED PUTTING HIM AS A MAJOR FOCUS!!!!

 

Maybe if they TRIED it, it COULD be successful.

 

Not saying it WOULD, but we'll never know until someone takes a risk!

they did, when he debuted and headlined against the rock. something from that fued made vince lose faith in him. and by now, his character is not credible enough to make a major impact. i suppose it could be done but they would really have to push him hard and out of no where. and he would need a mouthpiece.

They threw Benoit out there with little build up and little backstory and everyone knew he wasn't going to win. That's not trying that's just half-assing it.

 

During Benoit's run with Angle earlier this year they could have had Benoit win the title from him and atleast given it a try. He had a great build up with Angle. The matches had good heat. He got a freakin standing O from the match so what do you think would happen if his run with Angle had ended with him winning the title from him?

he doesn't have enough charisma to be champ. they used benoit where he should be used: making high profile matches exactly what they should be, good. some guys are used for their mic work, and some for their in ring work. benoit is used for in ring only (he's fueding with a train for christ sake). i agree with them. he doesn't have all the tools to be champ.

its called knowing the business. maybe thats why hhh is always saying you guys have no right to an opinion. you need to think deeper and for the long term here. this is not only entertainment, its a business. for any of you to say you can run that business better than the king himself is just downright ignorant. you guys read into what keller and them say too much.

LISTEN YOU STUPID STUPID MAN.

You say we have no idea about the business. And you(who are thinking along the same lines as the WWE) are saying that your ideas work. BUT THEY AREN'T DRAWING. Buyrates and Ratings reflect this. So YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Man it's like talking to a brick wall.