Grady Little to be fired.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

Besides the fact people are ignoring the fact Grady wanted a 4 year deal with 100% support from the front office no matter what he did, basically saying "I'm gonna make some dumb moves but don't yell at me"

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

All right, I gotta ask:

 

Has relying on this Billy Beane Moneyball Sabermetric crap actually resulted in winning World Championships? Why not just get some Mana-tron 3000 installed in the dugout that continually spits out stats.

 

And Boston has done better using the other method? Postseason shortcomings aside, the Athletics have won 90+ the last four years, and two years in a row they won 100+ games. They've won the division three of the last four years, and they've done it on one of the bottom 5 payrolls in baseball.

 

Boston, using the tools of ignorance, won the wild card once in the last four years.

 

*Whirr* Giambi bats .263 against righties at night on odd-numbered days when the moon is in the waxing gibbous phase *click*

 

That's not sabermetrics at all. Sabermetrics identifies factors that helps win ball games, what players have them, and most importantly, how they progress and regress over time.

 

I, for one, DON'T want a manager that has daily powows with Bill James to determine how the Royals fare against Lowe when the wind is blowing out of the east at 10.43233 MPH with a 20% chance of rain in the forecast.

 

What would you like then? A Jamacan witch doctor to tell you that despite all evidence to the contrary, THIS time, in the most important game of your life, that Pedro Martinez will shut down the Yankees because by golly, he's got that winning attitude?

 

Jesus, the Red Sox made it to game 7 of the ALCS. The furthest they've gone since 1986. And you people STILL can't accept sabermetrics?

[MrRant 0]

Sabermetrics > Dianetics

[JangoFett4Hire 0]

What has cost the A's in recent years hasn't been their use of sabermetrics, but their dropping the ball in baseball fundamentals.

[KingPK 0]

It's just that this whole change in attitude seems so..........nerdish to me. Relying on stat geeks, like the Ultimate Geek Bill James to make decisions instead of the manager thinking "Hmm, Ortiz really hasn't done well against Mussina in his career, but he's hitting everything nowadays, so why not put him in the lineup?" or "Well, my ace pitcher is doing pretty well, and I have confidence in him getting out of the inning with the lead." And learning what works and what doesn't.

 

My bottom line is: Grady Little won 90+ games in his first two years as manager, which only four other managers have done. The players liked him, and the team would have had a MAJOR chip on their shoulder after falling so short of the Series. Now, they have to deal with a brand new manager, one who may not know (or want to know) how to deal with a bunch of guys on the last year of their contracts and someone like Manny Ramirez.

 

I am actually hearing from people that the Sox should blow it up, trade Nomar, trade Lowe, trade Pedro, whatever they can do to get some different players in there. Now I know why people think Red Sox fans don't have it all upstairs.

Edited October 28, 2003 by Kingpk

[Dr. Tom 0]

If a "nerd" gets you to the World Series, or even to the playoffs consistently, are you really going to complain?

[KingPK 0]

But he hasn't, not for any team yet. And Oakland has, but the playoffs have exposed their weaknesses (inefficient offense, no leadership)

[sfaJack 0]

The front runners are Bud Black(damn good pitching coach) and of course Joe Torre if Steinbrenner sends him packing. Both of whom are much better baseball minds than Little

 

Cartman you need to shut your hole and stop hanging from Grady's nuts

Torre isn't going to be fired while the Red Sox job is open, if at all. Steinbrenner is more than aware that Boston doesn't have a manager and he also knows that Boston would probably love the chance to hire Torre if he became available. Torre in a Red Sox uniform ain't gonna happen.

 

I'm not a Red Sox fan in any way, and I certainly don't claim to know a lot of the public perception or have any great level of knowledge about the Sox, but I too think that firing Grady is going to end up being a mistake. 90+ wins in two years is nothing to sneeze at, and the job he apparently did keeping a couple of the me-first guys they have on that team in check for the most part is quite an accomplishment.

 

Sure, not taking Pedro out was a big mistake that ultimately cost them a trip to the Series. But guess what? Dusty Baker left both Prior and Wood in the game too long and it cost his team the NLCS. I haven't heard a large public outcry of "Fire Dusty!" that the Red Sox Nation is putting up over Little. Shouldn't Baker be fired, too, by your logic? No. That would be ridiculous.

 

Baker took the Cubs further than they've been since WWII. Grady Little took the Red Sox to within 5 outs of the World Series, a place they haven't been in 17 years. Who else got that much out of a Boston team? Jimy Williams got sort of close...but that's it.

 

Managers DO make mistakes sometimes. It happens. Nobody is perfect.

 

Besides, who's to say that if Little does make a move to the pen that they don't blow up and lose the game anyway?

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Ironically...all the "Sabremetric" teams are in the AL(Oakland with Beane, Boston with Epstein and Toronto sorta with J.P. Riccardi(Sp?)

[Guest Redhawk]

You know, I can't really fault a guy for thinking, "Let me leave the best pitcher in baseball on the mound for one more inning to get us to the World Series." And you can say Pedro was tired, but all the hits he gave up in that last inning were on 2-strike counts, so it's not like he was getting racked on his first pitch. It's baseball. People hit the ball sometimes, and sometimes they hit it where they ain't.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

It's just that this whole change in attitude seems so..........nerdish to me. Relying on stat geeks, like the Ultimate Geek Bill James to make decisions instead of the manager thinking "Hmm, Ortiz really hasn't done well against Mussina in his career, but he's hitting everything nowadays, so why not put him in the lineup?" or "Well, my ace pitcher is doing pretty well, and I have confidence in him getting out of the inning with the lead." And learning what works and what doesn't.

 

Bill James and other sabermatricians realize baseball doesn't operate in a shell of stats. They'll tell you that you play the hot hand, and go with what works.

 

The image of Bill James is that he sees baseball as nothing but numbers. That's not true. Read some of his books and you'll learn alot about the history of baseball that has little to do with numbers. The New Historical Abstract is an easy read.

 

Also, Bill James didn't invent sabermetrics. Alot of the basic sabermetric principles, and even "Moneyball" strategies, can be traced back to Branch Rickey. James gets alot of credit because he's probably the best writer of the sabermetric types.

 

My bottom line is: Grady Little won 90+ games in his first two years as manager, which only four other managers have done. The players liked him, and the team would have had a MAJOR chip on their shoulder after falling so short of the Series. Now, they have to deal with a brand new manager, one who may not know (or want to know) how to deal with a bunch of guys on the last year of their contracts and someone like Manny Ramirez.

 

Let's wait and see who the Sox hire as their new manager. The aforementioned Bill James wrote a book on managers, so the Sox are well informed in this process.

[treble 0]

Ironically...all the "Sabremetric" teams are in the AL(Oakland with Beane, Boston with Epstein and Toronto sorta with J.P. Riccardi(Sp?)

That's mostly because the lack of a DH in the National League makes it more difficult to fill your lineup with players with high OBP.

[JangoFett4Hire 0]

Bill James and other sabermatricians realize baseball doesn't operate in a shell of stats. They'll tell you that you play the hot hand, and go with what works.

Kinda like Mike Timlin and his .040 BAA in his first 15 pitches in the post-season??????????