ROH Fans

[Jack_Bauer 0]

You know something, it wasn't that long ago that I said I didn't like the attitude of some of the ROH fanbase and last night was a shining example of why this is the case. When a fan walks around the railing and pushes one of the wrestlers, it doesn't say a lot for the fan does it ? I think it's safe to say that the fan got what was coming though, and that's a punch in the face. And then in the main event, fans were heckling Dragon for not selling a move very well. The last thing a wrestler needs in a big match is for fans to distract them, so Dragon quite rightly went off the handle and shouted at the fans.

 

This isn't aimed at anyone in here, as I'm sure no-one would be stupid enough to do the first thing. The second thing is a little more acceptable, since they paid their money and it WAS only a verbal provokation, but annoying none-the-less.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

First guy got what he had coming.

 

Second guy was in the right to say whatever he wants.

 

I wish WWE fans were more like the second guy...TV would be more fun.

[Jack_Bauer 0]

I didnt wanna make a new post, so I just thought I'd note that Teddy Hart is done in ROH.

 

It came from 1wrestling.com :

 

"Teddy Hart is done with the promotion. After the Scramble Cage match, as the Backseat Boyz were celebrating their win, Hart stopped selling and began climbing to the top of the cage and doing moonsaults and dives again and again and popping the crowd. The Carnage Crew, seeing this as disrespectful whipped Hart down so he had a reason to sell, but he jumped up and did the same again, angering the locker room. When Hart returned, the Carnage Crew and several others were angry and wanted to go after him for being "a glory hound" as one worker put it, but were stopped by ROH management. Hart was eventually tossed out of the locker room, bags and all. Unfortunately, as talented as Hart is, his breach of etiquette was the worst thing he could have done and it killed his credibility with the locker room. After the show, Hart's conduct was the biggest topic among the workers...."

 

Oh yeah, this is for anyone interested in what American Dragon said to the fan : "What the F*ck do you know about wrestling, huh, what the F*ck have you ever done in this ring". That's what I see from other places, fuck knows what ACTUALLY was said.

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

Wow, thats what, how many promotions he's blacklisted from?

[Guest Dids]

The actions of a couple fans don't speak for everybody.

 

I too vote for fans heckling wrestlers for no-sells. I just find it hard to believe that Dragon no-sold (or poorly sold) something.

[Guest OSIcon]

As someone said, you can't characterize an entire fanbase on the actions of some. The people yelling insults and being jerks are a lot more noticeable then people doing nothing wrong. As is always the case, the vocal minoirty will standout above the majority. Thre could be 98 percent of fans acting fine, but that 2 percent acting bad will standout. It's just not fair to assume that is how an ROH fan acts. You could go to most promotions and find fans like that.

 

As for Teddy Hart, you would think he would learn sometime. ROH is right in not using him again for the simple fact that he upset the locker room. As talented as Hart is, you can't keep him around if it is going to upset the balance of the locker room. It is more about that then just his "no selling".

[Guest TDinDC1112]

As talented as Hart is, you can't keep him around if it is going to upset the balance of the locker room.

Why? If he produces in the ring, and people pay to see him (I think he might be one of the few indy guys around who can actually see tickets based on who he is), isn't that all that matters? Should every Dick professional athlete be kicked out of their sport? Who cares what the locker room thinks. Just go out there and entertain the crowd and make them pay to see more of you.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

ROH fans annoy me.

 

They seem more intent on getting themselves over than watching the match.

[Guest ToddRoyal]

I don't think that's a fair characterization. Sure there are a few fans that are more concerned with getting themselves over (the NYC bus trip guys come to mind a lot of times) but a good portion of the crowd just wants to watch good wrestling. The problem is that the crowd is usually only 400-700 people so a group of 20 idiots with "witty chants" makes a much more noticeable impact than that same group makes at a WWE show.

 

Also, they're rarely as bad as ECW crowds at "getting themselves over" and those crowds were considered "the best in the business" for a long time.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

C'mon, you don't actually think those "Let's go London" / "Let's go Dragon" was actually because the crowd was SPLIT do you?

[Guest ToddRoyal]

No, but it's no different than the crowd chanting "You suck" at Kurt Angle, or "shave your back" at A-Train. It's just part of wrestling. I'm not saying ROH is completely devoid of fans trying to get themselves over, but not drastically less than WWE and certainly not less than something like ECW.

[Tim Cooke 0]

Funny stuff.

 

ROH def has a weirder fan base that likes to get themselves over but the atmosphere added to 4/12....oh, but you don't like 4/12 that much. Nevermind.

 

Tim

[Guest OSIcon]

Why? If he produces in the ring, and people pay to see him (I think he might be one of the few indy guys around who can actually see tickets based on who he is), isn't that all that matters? Should every Dick professional athlete be kicked out of their sport? Who cares what the locker room thinks. Just go out there and entertain the crowd and make them pay to see more of you.

 

I think you need to create a work place enviroment where everyone gets along enough to create a good result.

 

If someone at an office job is a real dick and get along with his co-workers, you get rid of that guy so that the other workers can work better. Even if that guy is the smartest worker you have, it is better to get rid of one guy who is causing a problem rather then keep him around and have him effect other workers.

 

Not to mention, Teddy Hart DID do something wrong. He ignored any selling he was supposed to be doing in order to get himself over. That is not only wrong on its own, but it creates problems with the other wrestlers.

 

If Teddy Hart could be a dick and still co-exist in the locker room, then you keep him around. But if he can't, you need to get rid of him or else those backstage problems with being to effect the in-ring work.

[Guest ManKinnd]

I got the impression the crowd WAS really split during London/Dragon. I know I wanted Dragon to win, I mean I was there, you could hear small groups start chants for one of the guys, and another group for the other, until it escalated into dueling chants. Quite the experience.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

No, the crowd during Couture/Tito was split since they DIDN'T TAKE TURNS CHANTING - which is what the ROH fans did.

[Guest OSIcon]

No, the crowd during Couture/Tito was split since they DIDN'T TAKE TURNS CHANTING - which is what the ROH fans did.

 

I was there and I can say that the reaction for that match really did seem split. It didn't come off as the fans just trying to chant for themselves.

 

If you watch the match, the "Let's Go London" chants started first. The NYC fans are huge London fans and they started the chant which had been chanted for London in previous shows. There were audible boos (at least live) and some people yelling out "Let's go Dragon" when the London chants started because those people were rooting for Dragon. When the wrestlers came to the ring, Dragon got a huge reaction from the fans in the section I happened to be sitting in and London got a huge reaction from the section where most of the NYC bus people sit. Of course, then there were those people who cheered for both.

 

You could tell before the match even started that people were indeed split on who to cheer. The dueling chants developed from that. The London chants at most parts were generally louder probably because London was playing face in peril and people tend to cheer the person in that role.

 

It is a huge assumption to say you know that the chants were just so the fans to get them over. Seeing it develop live, it really was a spontaneuous thing and the crowd really was split. Dragon's fans cheered him on all the time, with things other then chants. London's fans did the same.

 

I agree, that the times it has happened since it has seemed a little forced for the most part, but you are completely wrong about the 4/12 match. Probably shouldn't make big assumptions on stuff like that which you can't prove.

[Michrome 0]

See, it doesn't matter if you were there, Rudo knows what you were thinking. Don't lie, he sees right through your charade!

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

They took turns chanting for crying out loud. If they really were split they'd try to chant OVER the other chant ala Tito/Randy and there'd be a transition period when one fades and the other dominates. But no, they wanted to both get their voices in for the novelty of duelling chants. Was there any real reason for the chant? Did it reflect what was going on in the ring? No. It was just the fans chanting for the sake of chanting.

[Michrome 0]

They were trying to be louder than the other, actually.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Not over each-other.

[Guest OSIcon]

Naw -

 

The chant goes "Let's Go So-and-So" (Clap, Clap, Clap-Clap-Clap). You chant let's go and then clap in a simmiliar pattern. When the people chanting "Let's Go London" were doing the clapping part, the others were doing "Let's Go Dragon".

 

It's almost like an argument. One side was saying: "London is better" and the other side was responding "No, Dragon is better." You could just chant over each other, but then nobody's point gets out. Just like I could talk over the person I am arguing with, but then neither of our opinions are heard so what good is that?

 

This seems like such a silly thing to argue about. Not sure what makes you the authority to tell us that the UFC fans did it "right" and the ROH fans did it "wrong".

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

It's about passion. If you're passionate about something why would you wait for someone to get finished? Why would you take turns? I dunno bout the arguments you've been in, but the ones I've been in and seen involve people trying to talk OVER the other person. The emotions in Tito/Randy were REAL, you could feel it. And it reflected the match and the personalities in the match. I got goosebumps from that, I didn't get anything from Dragon/London.

[Tim Cooke 0]

They are real since UFC is REAL.

 

Wow, that's a coincidence.

 

Tim

[Guest ManKinnd]

Well put Tim, plus Rudo, if you know anything about courtesy, like in a debate, you calmly wait for the other side to make their "point" before you continue, and courtesy and respect is kind of a big thing in ROH.

[LucharesuFan619 0]

As talented as Hart is, you can't keep him around if it is going to upset the balance of the locker room.

Why? If he produces in the ring, and people pay to see him (I think he might be one of the few indy guys around who can actually see tickets based on who he is), isn't that all that matters? Should every Dick professional athlete be kicked out of their sport? Who cares what the locker room thinks. Just go out there and entertain the crowd and make them pay to see more of you.

Ya, but who's he gonna work with if no one likes him? You have to be a team member in any sport, including pro wrestling. You can have all the talent in the world like Buff Bagwell (And YES, he was VERY talented, admit it), but if you act like a moron, you deserve not to be pushed. That's the thing about wrestling...in a lot of other sports, you can get away with it being a one man show, but in wrestling, you have to go out and put on a staged event with someone else. Since other sports aren't staged, what happens happens and so it's accepted that some guys don't like each other, but when you already know whats going to happen and you still can't get along, then there's something wrong in the whole equation.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

So you're calling the ROH fans courteous? Oh my...

 

Hey Jeff Hardy... what do you think of the ROH fans?

 

Wrestling is fake yet the fans still present real emotions in a lot of instances - that ROH match isn't one of them. Hogan vs. The Rock WM18, there were people chanting for Rocky, they just happened to get drowned out by the Hogan fans - there was no "taking turns" so each side could "get over".

[Michrome 0]

I still find it absolutely amazing that you are able to pry into the minds of the fans there, all of which say the crowd was deeply split, and decide that they didn't really think that. Were you born with this ability? There is a market for it.

 

The Hogan and Rocky chants at WM were different types of chants, they weren't as long as "Let's go London" and "Let's go Dragon." Count the syllables, and think about what it would sound like in your head if "Let's Go Dragon" and "Let's Go London" were screamed over each other. Then go back and watch the tape and hear the various names and chants sound like a mixture of the 2 at times. The two sections of the fans were taking turns trying to be LOUDER than the other section in support of their favorite. How hard is this to comprehend?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

It's the "taking turns" part that really does it.

 

I can't read minds, but I know what I see and hear. I've heard legitimate emotion being poured into a chant, with a legitimate reason behind it. I don't see this in that match with those fans.

Edited November 3, 2003 by RavishingRickRudo

[Guest OSIcon]

I shouldn't respond because you think you have it all figured out and it's just a chant....but this just really annoys me.

 

It's the "taking turns" part that really does it.

 

It has already been explained in this thread that it wasn't taking turns. The chant has a built in pause in it with the clapping part. That pause is the exact same length has the chant, making it easy to do chant for the other wrestler during that time. You act as if the people chanting for London stopped their chant for a few seconds so that the Dragon fans could chant. Of course, that's not the case at as has been explained many times.

 

I can't read minds, but I know what I see and hear. I've heard legitimate emotion being poured into a chant, with a legitimate reason behind it. I don't see this in that match with those fans.

 

You cannot see it all you want, but it was there.

 

There were many times prior to that match (and that show) where people would start a "Let's Go" chant for someone and you would hear one very loud person (or a few people) yell out "Let's Go [insert Other wrestler's name]." Those never went anywhere simply because those people chanting the opponent's name were in the minority. Everyone else was fine with cheering the first guy. There weren't split emotions on who to cheer for.

 

So if people passed those opportunties up to "put themselves over" by doing the dueling chants (as you claim), I don't understand why they chose that match to do it and not one of the earlier ones when someone yelled at.

 

Also, as I have said, people were split from the get go...before any chants started. It wasn't like the chants started and people decided to start chanting on which ever side needed more voices.

 

I just find it really funny how you are using your opinion on what true emotion sounds like (can you tell such a thing?) to back up your opinion. I am saying I saw the people, heard them, and felt the electricity during the whole match. It sure felt like real split emotions in that building fueling the chants and everyone there seems to agree.

 

But you know what real emotion sounds like, so everyone else is wrong right?

[Guest wildpegasus]

I've watched a few ROH shows and some of the top reccomended matches. It didn't take too long before I realised that the fans seemed to be marks for themselves somewhat. The Jeff Hardy situation was as predictable as the sun coming up in the morning and is some pretty solid evidence of the ROH fans loving themselves over the wrestling. I'm not saying that all the fans are like that because I imagine lots of them aren't but there definitely are some from what I've seen.