John Heidenreich

[Guest Megatron]

I'm not calling for hosses to pull off cruiser moves. I'm calling for some hosses that can do more than power moves just for the sake of doing power moves. Someone who can actually string his moves together for something resembling a good match.

When's the last time you saw any Hoss that was able to do that? It's simple, a Hoss throws the little guy around for awile, the little guy makes a comeback, and then they go to the finish. With the exception of Hogan. Hogan only fought big guys. Ornorff and Perfect excluded, of course.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

TBS used to be able to pull off some decent high flying type moves when he was in WCW.

[Guest Megatron]

TBS used to be able to pull off some decent high flying type moves when he was in WCW.

Yeah, when he weighed 350 lbs. and before he got signed to a guaranteed 10 year contrect and had no reason to improve. By the way, have you noticed that he has never had an injury that caused him to miss any time? Maybe that's because he never had a reason to do anything risky. He's another lazy sack of shit that I wish would get the can.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Knees when he was the Showster.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I miss The Smokin' Giant. Not really though.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I miss The Smokin' Giant. Not really though.

Don't you know those will stunt your growth?

[The Czech Republic 0]

I miss The Smokin' Giant. Not really though.

Don't you know those will stunt your growth?

Yeah. They're "coughin' nails." That's witty on multiple levels. You see, they're nails in your coffin. And also, they make you cough. The coughing makes you die and it all comes full circle.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

It's simple, a Hoss throws the little guy around for awile, the little guy makes a comeback, and then they go to the finish.

So it's necessary that in order to be called up from the developmentals you MUST fit the bill? And that as a result you have half a dozen guys doing this? One or two is enough.

 

Here's something to ponder: What if there were three Andre the Giant types in the WWF back in the 80s? Would each of them have been as special and unique (then later legendary) as Andre himself would become? I doubt it.

[Guest Megatron]

So it's necessary that in order to be called up from the developmentals you MUST fit the bill?

 

Here's something to ponder: What if there were three Andre the Giant types in the WWF back in the 80s?

1. Let me put it this way: What's more beleivable, a little guy kicking the shit out of the bigger guy or the other way around? And if there were only a couple Hoss type guys, then one of them would have to be champ all the time because there's no way anybody would beleive that all the little guys could win.

 

2. There were a bunch of Andre types in the 80's. The were Studd, Bundy, One Man Gang, and I'm sure several others that I'm forgetting right now. And who won the first Rumble PPV? That's right, Studd. And who did he eliminate to win? Dibiase. And how did he win? In Hoss fashion. And guess what? It was beleivable.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Yeah, fuck anything interesting or different, let's just fill up the ring with huge guys. Because that's what you want, right? I'm almost at the point that I wish Batista and Morgan and Jones and Hossenfeffer get pushed to the moon right this minute just so we can all see how monotonous it will be.

 

P.S. Those you named were nowhere near Andre in terms of stature or name value. And John Studd did a hell of a lot with the Rumble win, didn't he? Just another example of giving and giving for an unskilled big man and nothing useful coming from it.

[Guest Megatron]

Those you named were nowhere near Andre in terms of stature or name value.

Who said anything about stature or name value? Andre was the prototype for Hoss. All the guys I mentioned were later Hosses. You said Andre types, I gave you some names.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Allow me to explain to you what I meant by that. I had meant from the get-go by Andre types are people that were HIS height and HIS weight. Not in the general area. RIGHT up there.

 

And the reason I bring it up in the first place is because whenever a "hoss" gets criticized this argument comes up "What if the same thing was said about Andre the Giant back in his heyday?" completely ignoring that Andre's mere presence was unique, moreso than these guys coming from OVW can hope to be.

[Guest Megatron]

Yeah, fuck anything interesting or different, let's just fill up the ring with huge guys. Because that's what you want, right? I'm almost at the point that I wish Batista and Morgan and Jones and Hossenfeffer get pushed to the moon right this minute just so we can all see how monotonous it will be.

I'm not saying they should all be huge, I'm saying that they have their place in the scheme of things. Yes, it would be monotonous if all they had were huge guys. That's why they don't. And related to our earlier argument, big guys have a certain style that works, just like the smaller guys do. Would you buy Hidethesausage doing a Sky Twister Press? I wouldn't. Would I like to see that? Not really. Why? Just look at what happened to Brock at Mania. Big guys are good at acting like big guys while little guys are good at high spots, while the guys in between like Benoit, Booker, RVD, and Jericho can get away with doing a little of both. I guess I've been preogramed to accept things this way, and I guess it must be the right way because I've been watching it all these years.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I'm saying that they have their place in the scheme of things.

And I don't? I've said before that I don't hoss-hate, I hate lack of variety. And I constantly see an overabundance and overemphasis on WWE's narrow vision of what a wrestler 'should be', and I think it's bull. And I also think that their formula or mentality isn't exactly making people stay WWE-loyal, either. Not with the mass exodus since WCW died.

[Guest Megatron]

I'm saying that they have their place in the scheme of things.

And I don't? I've said before that I don't hoss-hate, I hate lack of variety. And I constantly see an overabundance and overemphasis on WWE's narrow vision of what a wrestler 'should be', and I think it's bull. And I also think that their formula or mentality isn't exactly making people stay WWE-loyal, either. Not with the mass exodus since WCW died.

What variety are you looking for? There's basically 3 types of wrestlers: Brawlers, Technicals, and High-Flyers. That's the way it's pretty much always been. Some can cut promos, some can't. How would they be able to change this? Make everybody do high-spots? Make all the little guys puch and kick? Hell, Undertaker has been trying to incorporate submissions into his style over the past couple years. But I don't know if he's doing it as a knock against the techs or what. I do agree with you that alot of the guys coming out of the chute seem to be pretty vanilla, they they are still fairly young and have a long time to find the groove that best suits them.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I have no problem with GOOD big men. Like Vader, Bam Bam Bigelow, and Stan Hansen.

[Guest Megatron]

I have no problem with GOOD big men. Like Vader, Bam Bam Bigelow, and Stan Hansen.

I have no problem with any type of wrestler as long as they are good.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

What variety are you looking for?

Guys coming out of the chute that don't have the same haircut and body type, and that don't do the same moves. Seems simple, no?

 

I do agree with you that alot of the guys coming out of the chute seem to be pretty vanilla, they they are still fairly young and have a long time to find the groove that best suits them.

 

And I don't see why I or anyone else have to watch their growing pains week after week, while getting hyped as the greatest thing since sliced bread. JR and King were laughable during Hossenfeffer's debut match.

[Guest Megatron]

And I don't see why I or anyone else have to watch their growing pains week after week, while getting hyped as the greatest thing since sliced bread. JR and King were laughable during Hossenfeffer's debut match.

How else are they going to improve unless they get some experience? I can see them putting them in dark matches or on Velocity, but I think they are trying to make RAW the home of the plaines. I think that Hidethesausage is probably too old to improve. And that Horshu guy's 32. If he's not any good, like Meltzer says, then he never will be.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

How else are they going to improve unless they get some experience?

I thought that's what the dark matches and the developmentals are for. Conway was doing them for ages and now look - he fits in very well. There IS such a thing as being called up too soon.

 

I think that Hidethesausage is probably too old to improve. And that Horshu guy's 32. If he's not any good, like Meltzer says, then he never will be.

 

Won't stop WWE. Hence my problem. We keep going full circle back to it - there's a reason for that.

[Guest Megatron]

I thought that's what the dark matches and the developmentals are for. Conway was doing them for ages and now look - he fits in very well. There IS such a thing as being called up too soon.

How long should they stay in OVW before they get called up? Dinsmore's been there for years. The Bashams were there for a long time. Jindrak was there pretty much since WCW went bust. You don't really think that they will never call them up and waste all the time and money spent on them, do you? Besides, Jindrak and Cade have only been on TV for a short time. Hidethesausage I'm sure is suffering from jitters. You have to excuse a couple mistakes, don't you think? Lita is what I'd consider a pro, and yet she messes up moves on a regular basis. Gail Kim was fucking up all the time, but she's doing a hell of a lot better now. Jackie Gayda was moved to a valet position. I remember Cena having a match with Jericho on PPV after he'd been on TV for about a month. Now look at him. If these guys still suck 6 months from now, then I'll say that they are loads, but I'm willing to wait. Phenoms don't come down the pike every day. These things take time.

[King Cucaracha 0]

I have no problem with GOOD big men. Like Vader, Bam Bam Bigelow, and Stan Hansen.

Well, someone kind of answered my point about tarring all big men by the same brush. The people who say 'Oh, they're all basically the same' are obviously just hoss-haters, because they forget the big men who could wrestle. The guys like Vader, Hansen, Bam Bam, Mike Awesome.

 

Surely they were (as Mullato said) "molded the same way from the same lumps of clay, so to speak" as the other hosses around at the time. So by his words, and many others around here, Vader and PN News are basically the same, because they're both big.

 

It's like saying Jericho and Test can be tarred with the same bursh because they're both Canadians.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

If these guys still suck 6 months from now, then I'll say that they are loads, but I'm willing to wait. Phenoms don't come down the pike every day. These things take time.

I'm less willing to wait at this point. I've put up with enough to give the "JUST WAIT!!!!" argument a second thought.

 

Surely they were (as Mullato said) "molded the same way from the same lumps of clay, so to speak" as the other hosses around at the time. So by his words, and many others around here, Vader and PN News are basically the same, because they're both big.

 

Christ, I meant the OVW system in general when I said that. Vader and News obviously went through two different avenues to get to WCW at around the same time. Do you have anything else to misconstrue or are you done?

 

At any rate, I'll just change the channel when these MONSTERS~! try and try again to 'get good'. A very simple solution.

[Guest Megatron]

I'm less willing to wait at this point. I've put up with enough to give the "JUST WAIT!!!!" argument a second thought.

Well, I guess there's no reason for you to watch then. Besides, you missed the whole point of my post. The point was not everyone can be an all-star right out of the gate.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I think what he meant is that just about every time someone has said "just wait" on this board when talking about WWE storylines/pushes...nothing good has ever come out of it.