Why Luger is good for TNA

[Guest MikeSC]

Considering they've been giving everything 8-10 minutes I'd say yes.

 

They spend most of the two hours in the ring and with only 6 matches (less than they usually schedule) 2 of which are storyline matches more than wrestling matches (Abyss/Harris and Raven/Redshirts) AND that they spent the whole battle royal building up the storyline for Low Ki/Daniels just so they could get the fans of good matches to order.

The ME will overshadow it.

 

It always does.

 

The gauntlet match alone will make giving Low Ki v Daniels enough time tough.

 

If they do it, I will order the show.

-=Mike

[Guest TDinDC1112]

Because Luger was one of those people who never wanted to put over the young guys. And because he Liz.

 

And no- I don't like Austin either.

 

 

On Low Ki-Daniels not getting enough time:

 

There are 5 matches scheduled plus a gauntlet. That's a lot of stuff to squeeze into a 2 hr show. Don't you think?

 

The main reminds me of the time they did Jarrett/Raven v. Douglas/Gilberti- and that was just awful.

So you think Flair is a piece of shit too, right?

 

5 mathces and a gauntlet are not too much to put into a 2 hour show. Do the math.

[Guest MikeSC]

Because Luger was one of those people who never wanted to put over the young guys. And because he Liz.

 

And no- I don't like Austin either.

 

 

On Low Ki-Daniels not getting enough time:

 

There are 5 matches scheduled plus a gauntlet. That's a lot of stuff to squeeze into a 2 hr show. Don't you think?

 

The main reminds me of the time they did Jarrett/Raven v. Douglas/Gilberti- and that was just awful.

So you think Flair is a piece of shit too, right?

 

5 mathces and a gauntlet are not too much to put into a 2 hour show. Do the math.

Flair is WELL over-the-hill and shouldn't be in the ring now. However, he put over guys. Luger never did.

 

And they will have a hard time giving the match a little time. Heck, if Luger dislikes to finish, he will kill 30 minutes on his own.

-=Mike

[Guest TDinDC1112]

Because Luger was one of those people who never wanted to put over the young guys. And because he Liz.

 

And no- I don't like Austin either.

 

 

On Low Ki-Daniels not getting enough time:

 

There are 5 matches scheduled plus a gauntlet. That's a lot of stuff to squeeze into a 2 hr show. Don't you think?

 

The main reminds me of the time they did Jarrett/Raven v. Douglas/Gilberti- and that was just awful.

So you think Flair is a piece of shit too, right?

 

5 mathces and a gauntlet are not too much to put into a 2 hour show. Do the math.

Flair is WELL over-the-hill and shouldn't be in the ring now. However, he put over guys. Luger never did.

 

And they will have a hard time giving the match a little time. Heck, if Luger dislikes to finish, he will kill 30 minutes on his own.

-=Mike

The only younger talent Flair ever put over was Sting. I'm not talking about Flair now. Flair was notorious for not letting any advancement of younger stars. Go ask Mick Foley and Steve Austin.

[bob_barron 0]

Flair would always put over the talent- he would make them look like a million bucks whenever he wrestled them.

 

Considering how over Foley got under Flair's book- I don't see what he's complaining about.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

Flair would always put over the talent- he would make them look like a million bucks whenever he wrestled them.

 

Considering how over Foley got under Flair's book- I don't see what he's complaining about.

Besides Sting, who did Flair ever elevate in his career to a higher level after he wrestled Flair? When Flair was booker of WCW, he did the same stuff HHH does now and JJ does now too.

[bob_barron 0]

What I meant is that whenever he wrestled someone- he made them look like a million bucks and made the fans think they could see a title change at any moment.

 

Flair helped Terry Funk from washed up old man to main event player.

 

Flair didn't do the same stuff HHH and Jarrett did. He didn't book storylines where he should've lost the blowoff yet won.

[Guest dvkorn]

Flair didn't do the same stuff HHH and Jarrett did. He didn't book storylines where he should've lost the blowoff yet won.

i disagree with what you said about Jarrett there but anyway...

 

I love Flair and everything but Flair kinda did book things in his favour... the feud with Funk for example was meant to go on longer but Flair decided not too because Terry said something in a promo when Flair was out 'injured' and Flair couldn't retaliate... Plus the Hollywood Blondes... Foley... etc..

[Guest MikeSC]

The only younger talent Flair ever put over was Sting. I'm not talking about Flair now. Flair was notorious for not letting any advancement of younger stars. Go ask Mick Foley and Steve Austin.

Well, if you ignore Bret Hart.

 

And Barry Windham.

 

And Lex Luger.

 

And Nikita Koloff.

 

And, just to let you know, Flair WANTED Austin to be groomed as the next big heel. I don't know where you read otherwise.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

Flair would always put over the talent- he would make them look like a million bucks whenever he wrestled them.

 

Considering how over Foley got under Flair's book- I don't see what he's complaining about.

Besides Sting, who did Flair ever elevate in his career to a higher level after he wrestled Flair? When Flair was booker of WCW, he did the same stuff HHH does now and JJ does now too.

Except the quality of the shows were MUCH better.

 

It's not even close.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

Flair didn't do the same stuff HHH and Jarrett did. He didn't book storylines where he should've lost the blowoff yet won.

i disagree with what you said about Jarrett there but anyway...

 

I love Flair and everything but Flair kinda did book things in his favour... the feud with Funk for example was meant to go on longer but Flair decided not too because Terry said something in a promo when Flair was out 'injured' and Flair couldn't retaliate... Plus the Hollywood Blondes... Foley... etc..

The Funk feud went for 6 months --- shocking, considering that there was NEVER any risk ot Funk beating him.

 

And he split the Blondes because he wanted to shoot Austin to the moon.

-=Mike

...Austin's problems started when Hogan arrived

[Guest TDinDC1112]

The only younger talent Flair ever put over was Sting.  I'm not talking about Flair now.  Flair was notorious for not letting any advancement of younger stars.  Go ask Mick Foley and Steve Austin.

Well, if you ignore Bret Hart.

 

And Barry Windham.

 

And Lex Luger.

 

And Nikita Koloff.

 

And, just to let you know, Flair WANTED Austin to be groomed as the next big heel. I don't know where you read otherwise.

-=Mike

Lex Luger never beat Flair for the title with countless title matches. Same with the other guys. When those feuds were done, they were guys who were known as not being able to win the big match. I'm talking about the NWA/WCW here. Flair putting over Bret Hart in WWF was nice, but it was a one time thing in WWF that was a match that wasn't really announced ahead of time.

[Guest MikeSC]

The only younger talent Flair ever put over was Sting.  I'm not talking about Flair now.  Flair was notorious for not letting any advancement of younger stars.  Go ask Mick Foley and Steve Austin.

Well, if you ignore Bret Hart.

 

And Barry Windham.

 

And Lex Luger.

 

And Nikita Koloff.

 

And, just to let you know, Flair WANTED Austin to be groomed as the next big heel. I don't know where you read otherwise.

-=Mike

Lex Luger never beat Flair for the title with countless title matches. Same with the other guys. When those feuds were done, they were guys who were known as not being able to win the big match. I'm talking about the NWA/WCW here. Flair putting over Bret Hart in WWF was nice, but it was a one time thing in WWF that was a match that wasn't really announced ahead of time.

Without Flair, those guys are not seen as even POTENTIAL threats to the World Title. Heck, he made RICKY MORTON look like a threat. He made guys look MUCH better than they were.

 

He put over guys all of the time.

 

NOBODY has put over more guys in their career than Flair.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

I fully understand that Flair has put over everyone. What I'm saying is he never drew money, and that he didn't put anyone over until the 90's, and was known for holding back younger talent - which everyone in his position has done in the past. Luger was a world title threat the second he started wrestling because of his look. Flair didn't make him a world title threat.

[Guest MikeSC]

I fully understand that Flair has put over everyone.

 

And this makes your NEXT sentence all the more baffling.

 

What I'm saying is he never drew money

 

Hmm, single-handedly kept the NWA and later WCW afloat. Would work for ANY region until Crockett stopped that to keep them afloat.

 

Yup, Flair NEVER drew.

 

Notice that at Bash '91, they chanted for ONE wrestler the entire show.

 

That wrestler, of course, was Flair.

 

They ALSO chanted for him at a show at the Meadowlands a few days earlier.

 

, and that he didn't put anyone over until the 90's,

 

Well, except Windham.

 

And Luger.

 

And Morton.

 

And Koloff.

 

And...

 

and was known for holding back younger talent

 

Funny, that is the ONE bad trait I've never heard mentioned when discussing Flair. Odd.

 

You are aware that he asked to job the World Title to Scott Steiner in 1991, right?

 

- which everyone in his position has done in the past.  Luger was a world title threat the second he started wrestling because of his look.  Flair didn't make him a world title threat.

 

Flair made him look legit. He made him look like he could win the gold.

 

Luger wasn't a World Title threat very often in his career.

-=Mike

[Guest TDinDC1112]

1. Luger wasn't a world title threat because he lost a million world title matches to Flair and was no longer considered a threat. He was definitely a world title threat in WWF in 1993, and again in WCW in 1997.

 

2. You said that my 2 sentences don't go together? I ask you - what does putting people over and drawing money have anything to do with each other? The reason why Brock Lesnar isn't drawing money is that he's lost so many times that when he loses it doesn't mean anything anymore.

 

3. Ted Turner's money kept WCW afloat - not Ric Flair.

 

4. What does a few thousand people chanting his name at a Bash show in a WCW stronghold city have to do with him drawing? It's not like if he appeared on the show they would have sold out and buyrates would have increased.

 

5. I don't remember him putting over any of the talent you mentioned. Flair was a weak champion, and him being booked as a weak champion was a factor in killing the NWA.

 

6. Luger was a legit title contender the SECOND he started wrestling because of his appearance. Wrestling is about ILLUSION, not substance. Substance has never drawn money (Flair). Illusion (Hogan) has drawn millions.

[Guest MikeSC]

1.  Luger wasn't a world title threat because he lost a million world title matches to Flair and was no longer considered a threat.  He was definitely a world title threat in WWF in 1993, and again in WCW in 1997.

 

You can be put over by jobbing. See Austin, Steve.

 

Luger's FIRST title shot against Flair (Battle for the Belt III) MADE Luger in his rookie year.

 

The fans didn't take him seriously as a World Title holder in the WWF, which is why he didn't win the belt at SummerSlam. And he became a "threat" in 1997 out of the blue. It wasn't like it was well-booked. He went from tag wrestler (with Giant) to Ron Garvin-esque World Champ in short order.

 

2.  You said that my 2 sentences don't go together?  I ask you - what does putting people over and drawing money have anything to do with each other?  The reason why Brock Lesnar isn't drawing money is that he's lost so many times that when he loses it doesn't mean anything anymore. 

 

"I fully understand that Flair has put over everyone. What I'm saying is he never drew money, and that he didn't put anyone over until the 90's".

 

Do you not notice a small inconsistency there?

 

Brock isn't drawing money because he doesn't have all that much charisma and the business is just down. Brock lacks the charisma to bring it back up.

 

3.  Ted Turner's money kept WCW afloat - not Ric Flair.

 

See the years of 1983 until he left. Crockett was killed by poor expansion and Starrcade '87 not making a dime due to the WWF's power play.

 

And his departure from WCW nearly killed the company.

 

ANY time they had a HUGE booking problem --- who did they call to bail them out?

 

4.  What does a few thousand people chanting his name at a Bash show in a WCW stronghold city have to do with him drawing?  It's not like if he appeared on the show they would have sold out and buyrates would have increased.

 

The chants for him at the time indicate otherwise. It's not like the company did WELL with Luger as champ --- yet they were doing just fine WITH Flair as champ.

 

As Cornette said, Sting v Flair drew. Luger v Flair drew. Sting v Luger never drew.

 

What is missing?

 

5.  I don't remember him putting over any of the talent you mentioned.  Flair was a weak champion, and him being booked as a weak champion was a factor in killing the NWA.

 

They were ALL viewed as legitimate singles because Flair made them look like legitimate singles. Flair made Koloff look like he had a clue what he was doing in the ring. He made a tag wrestler in Morton look, well, as good as he actually is.

 

6.  Luger was a legit title contender the SECOND he started wrestling because of his appearance.  Wrestling is about ILLUSION, not substance.  Substance has never drawn money (Flair).  Illusion (Hogan) has drawn millions.

 

You know, for a guy who never drew, WCW ALWAYS relied on Flair to bail them out of a problem (see Scorpion, Black AND Starrcade 1993). Weird, huh?

 

And, being muscular doesn't make you a contender. Ed "The Bull" Gentner debuted at about the same time. He had a huge physique. Why did Luger make it while Ed didn't (and eventually committed suicide)?

-=Mike