Triple H vs Chris Benoit

[Guest Ray]

Not sure if it's old enough for old school, but meh!

 

I watched this match again, and damn! It's way overrated. It's long been presented as proof of Triple H's greatness in 2000, but the match is full of pointlessness.

 

HHH works Benoit's leg and it leads nowhere (and I must admit, my beloved Benoit no-sells the leg work ). You have HHH busting out the technical moveset, I guess to show everyone he can keep up with Benoit, but it's pointless. Why spend so much time working over the leg if you're going to finish with a pedigree?

 

My rating of this dropped dramatically upon viewing a second time.

 

 

Who agrees?

[Guest Real F'n Show]

You can talk about psychology and leg work all you want but I enjoyed that match and that's how I rate them. **** from me

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

Meh I didn't like it much. I enjoy techncial wrestling but only when it has a point and fits in the context with the match. Here it was just technical wrestling for the hell of it.

 

Gimme Rock/HHH anyday(more brawling, more story).

[Guest wildpegasus]

It's been a while since I watched this so please excuse any mistakes of memory I might've made here:

 

People either love this or think it has something missing. At the risk of sounding like a byist Benoit fan I must say I loved this match. It was like a combination of Bret vs Benoit and a Benoit New Japan Jr. match. It's been a while since I've seen it but if I remember right Benoit does a good job of selling the leg. He shakes it out every once in a while. The point here is that HHH didn't kill Benoit's leg. Sure, he worked on it but he didn't obliberate it. I believe this might even come into play later on as Benoit's leg not being quite strong enough allows HHH to power out of the crossface as Benoit just doesn't have the strength there to hold him. I liked that.

 

I also liked Benoit's working on HHH's arm. THe same concept works here as HHH can't hold Benoit in the pedigree at the end where they do that awesome counter sequence where Benoit breaks the hold of the pedigree and just POUNDS HHH's arm. HHH keeps on trying to hold Benoit in the pedigree but with his arm not being 100 percent he can't do it. He's in trouble as his signature move is not going to put Benoit away. He just can't maintain his grip. Stephanis than comes to the rescue by slapping Benoit which allows HHH to low blow Benoit allowing HHH to hit the pedigree. Only by surprise and the distraction from the pain of the low blow lets HHH pedigree Benoit. I thought that was pretty smart as well.

 

What else I liked about this:

 

2 dragon suplexes-Man, I loved that

 

HHH using Benoit moves such as rolling through a pinning predicament (I think), and Indian deathlock, a superplex and an inverted suplex. It was nice seeing him bust out some new stuff.

 

I thought the bout also built to a climax very well. It more than kept my interest all the way through.

 

The intensity-Both players brought their working shoes on as there was no slacking off here.

 

The ending sequence-Beautiful, not only was it as cool as anything (the only time the pedigree's been countered like that I believe) but the ending also had story behind it.

 

When Triple HHH used that knee to the chest move on his face comeback. I just loved the timing of it as I thought it was perfect. I hope I'm not getting confused here as my memory's a little fuzzy but I also liked how Benoit cut off the face comeback quickly afterwards.

 

I've said before and I'll say it again this is far and away HHH's best match as a face. It's probably my favouirte HHH match along with the last man standing Jericho match.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

I didn't know HHH was a face then. I guess I was just thinking he was a heel everyone was cheering unless he was with Stephanie.

 

 

Stephanie = has Xpac heat.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I didn't know HHH was a face then. I guess I was just thinking he was a heel everyone was cheering unless he was with Stephanie.

 

 

Stephanie = has Xpac heat.

I'd say he was about 80 percent turned face. The crowd had pretty much caught on to this but were still a little hesitant to cheer for him since I believe some of them were confused as on to whether he was truly a good guy or not. That's why you didn't get too much cheers for HHH during the HHH vs Benoit match. They wanted to as you could tell from the beginning of the bout when they're chanting HHH's name but the fans just weren't sure about it. For all intents and purpose around this time he was wrestling his matches completely as a face. When someone does this, I consider them a face.

[Guest Ray]

HHH using Benoit moves such as rolling through a pinning predicament (I think), and Indian deathlock, a superplex and an inverted suplex. It was nice seeing him bust out some new stuff.

It's good to have a diverse moveset...but there must be a point to it. He busted out the moves, but the flow wasn't there, the purpose wasn't there.

 

it was just technical wrestling for the hell of it.

That's exactly the way I feel.

[The Dames 0]

They wanted to as you could tell from the beginning of the bout when they're chanting HHH's name but the fans just weren't sure about it.

I was in the arena that night and he received a tremendous pop live, which is usual for Triple H regardless of whether or not he's a face or a heel, but I vividly remember the "Tri-pul H" chant. It was the first time I had ever heard it from a crowd prior to or during a match, so I would say that you're right on this one.

 

Dames

[Tawren 0]

I LOVE THIS MATCH.

 

Seriously, it rocks. I'm not going to go into detail (wildpegasus summed up my points) but it is great. Sure, some of the technical stuff doesn't lead anywhere, but I feel it makes sense-HHH wants to prove he is in Benoit's league as a technical wrestler (this was during Benoit's "I am the best technical wrestler in the WWF and everyone is against me and I'm paranoid etc.") so he busts out the mat stuff.

[Guest ManKinnd]

You have HHH busting out the technical moveset, I guess to show everyone he can keep up with Benoit, but it's pointless. Why spend so much time working over the leg if you're going to finish with a pedigree?

This is one of my biggest pet peeves EVER.

In the context of the match, wrestling is real, and HHH does not know how he is going to eventually beat Benoit. He works the leg to break him down, but should he not go for the Pedigree for the victory because leg work will be wasted? Hardly. You do what you can in the beginning to break down your opponent. It may win you the match, it may not. If every match that started with legwork ended in a leg submission, that would get quite repetetive wouldn't it?

I'll put it to you this way. You want to get a girl to go out with you, so you send her chocolate and flowers and cards and talk to her friends to talk you up, but in the end you just use some sweet talk and she says yes. Was everything before that a waste? Not in the least, because you didn't know what it would take to get her to say yes.

You need to explain to me why it's a waste to use legwork/armwork and not end with something that has to do with that. Please tell me.

[Guest Ray]

Logic?

 

 

He's doing legwork just to do legwork. It means nothing to the rest of the match. It's like "Ok, I'm done working this leg, let's do something else now."

 

As was said, it's going technical just for the hell of it. The flow isn't there. The story isn't there.

 

They're just going through technical moves.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Logic?

 

 

He's doing legwork just to do legwork. It means nothing to the rest of the match. It's like "Ok, I'm done working this leg, let's do something else now."

 

As was said, it's going technical just for the hell of it. The flow isn't there. The story isn't there.

 

They're just going through technical moves.

The legwork just gives Hunter the extra edge he needed to power out of the crossface.

[Guest Ray]

Logic?

 

 

He's doing legwork just to do legwork. It means nothing to the rest of the match. It's like "Ok, I'm done working this leg, let's do something else now."

 

As was said, it's going technical just for the hell of it. The flow isn't there. The story isn't there.

 

They're just going through technical moves.

The legwork just gives Hunter the extra edge he needed to power out of the crossface.

If HHH wants to do work to nullify a potential crossface, then why not do arm work? Surely it's harder to hold a crossface with weakened arms rather than legs?

 

 

I can't get past the feeling that he's doing legwork just to show he can do legwork.

[Tawren 0]

I can't get past the feeling that he's doing legwork just to show he can do legwork.

I think (probably wrong) that he IS doing it just to do legwork-he is showing that Benoit is not the best technical wrestler, and that he can do all the mat stuff too.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Logic?

 

 

He's doing legwork just to do legwork. It means nothing to the rest of the match. It's like "Ok, I'm done working this leg, let's do something else now."

 

As was said, it's going technical just for the hell of it. The flow isn't there. The story isn't there.

 

They're just going through technical moves.

The legwork just gives Hunter the extra edge he needed to power out of the crossface.

If HHH wants to do work to nullify a potential crossface, then why not do arm work? Surely it's harder to hold a crossface with weakened arms rather than legs?

 

 

I can't get past the feeling that he's doing legwork just to show he can do legwork.

But his plan did work when he countered the crossface into a Samoan drop? (I think) which weakened Benoit up for the pedigree. Maybe he just wanted to cross Benoit up and not go for the obvious which would make sense. If he worked around Benoit's arms he'd be putting himself in danger the whole match for the crossface which we've seen Benoit hit in the past. With the legs he wouldn't be in as much trouble. Now I just remembered that Stephanie gave HHH a tape of the crossface before the match showing a way to break the crossface so I assume this must've been it.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

HHH I believe stated he was going tp orve to Benoit and everyone, he can match him toe-to-toe when it comes to mat wrestling.

 

 

And yes, he showed that. But when was the last time the Pedigree WASN'T the factor in a HHH match?

 

Common sense people!

[The Mandarin 0]

You want to get a girl to go out with you, so you send her chocolate and flowers and cards and talk to her friends to talk you up, but in the end you just use some sweet talk and she says yes.

Just the image of Hunter sending Benoit flowers and chocolate while also getting the Radicalz to put in a good name for him is one of the funniest things I've seen today.

 

Thanks.

[godthedog 0]

i toss my hat in with the "something missing" camp. all those intangibles like flow, timing & pacing were just missing here, and it looked like they were going through the motions of a great match. the whole thing was very stop-and-start, like "okay, this is the part where i start doing _____, then you start doing ____"--it looked like they were trying to force the structure on to the match, & the points in the match didn't seem to build naturally from each other. in theory, yes, the transitions made sense, but the execution was poor. ever see a movie or a play where all the lines make sense, but the actors all sound like they're reciting lines, rather than really reacting to each other? same thing here.

 

sorry i can't come up with any examples to back this up, but i don't have a copy of it in my collection & it's been a while since i've seen it; so all i can give is the vibe i got from the match.

 

however, that final pedigree/crossface/repeat sequence is AWESOME.

[Betty Houle 0]

You have HHH busting out the technical moveset, I guess to show everyone he can keep up with Benoit, but it's pointless. Why spend so much time working over the leg if you're going to finish with a pedigree?

This is one of my biggest pet peeves EVER.

In the context of the match, wrestling is real, and HHH does not know how he is going to eventually beat Benoit. He works the leg to break him down, but should he not go for the Pedigree for the victory because leg work will be wasted? Hardly. You do what you can in the beginning to break down your opponent. It may win you the match, it may not. If every match that started with legwork ended in a leg submission, that would get quite repetetive wouldn't it?

I'll put it to you this way. You want to get a girl to go out with you, so you send her chocolate and flowers and cards and talk to her friends to talk you up, but in the end you just use some sweet talk and she says yes. Was everything before that a waste? Not in the least, because you didn't know what it would take to get her to say yes.

You need to explain to me why it's a waste to use legwork/armwork and not end with something that has to do with that. Please tell me.

You are 100% correct.