Guest Monday Night Jericho Report post Posted December 3, 2003 So what you guys are saying is that Michaels couldn't work a good/entertaining match without using the kip-up comeback routine? Wow, that's pretty fucking pathetic... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ManKinnd Report post Posted December 4, 2003 I don't think you can say "wrestling is wrestling." Look at movies, music, anything. When you're watching a different type of movie, you look for different things. Take a look at AFI's top 100 movie list, a well respected set of movies, and see the different movies on there. Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Rocky, but then also Casablanca, Gone with the Wind, and It's a Wonderful Life. Very different movies that I will guarantee did not attempt to do the same thing in production. But they're still all great. They were looked at with different expectancies. Exluding comedy matches, I think wrestling is quite comperable to serious dramatic films. If serious dramatic films has severe gaps in plot/logic, then they are not considered good. If I'm watching a film and see something which makes absolutely no sense, I'm obviously going to lower my rating. Just like that film, if I see something in a wrestling match which makes no sense (such as a wrestler whose back was *DESTROYED* nipping-up and flying around), I'm obviously going to lower my rating. You kinda missed my point. I wasn't talking about HHH/HBK. I was referring to the poster(s) who argued that Japanese Wrestling can be compared to American Wrestling. Not all of it can be, that was my argument. While all the films I listed are great, they are very, very different, just like a great American match and a great Japanese match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYU 0 Report post Posted December 4, 2003 So what you guys are saying is that Michaels couldn't work a good/entertaining match without using the kip-up comeback routine? Wow, that's pretty fucking pathetic... The kip-up comeback routine popped the fans like crazy, and had a purpose in establishing that throughout the entire beating, Shawn Michaels wouldn't give up and that the Heartbreak Kid was back. It was a signature move of his, so it made his fans pop like crazy when they saw him do it, previously thinking that he couldn't. The fact that some continue to turn a blind eye to that is pretty fucking pathetic. Benoit broke his neck, and the fans knew it. Does that mean he shouldn't do his flying headbutt or his german suplexes, which SHOULD hurt his "forever-to-be-damaged" neck, yet pop the crowd? Keep in mind. His neck injuries have been established, and have been focused on in a match as a weakness. Does this mean his signature moves, which require the neck, should not be used at all? Or is there a double standard? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Silly Douchebag Report post Posted December 4, 2003 It's gotten to the point where both the puro fanatics and WWF marks are repeating themselves. I'm not gonna say anything else because I think that the WrestleMania XIV point was my strongest. But seriously...can we drop this? One thing is clear: puro fanatics are never going to appreciate performers like Shawn Michaels and WWF marks are never going to appreciate the way that Japanese wrestlers sell (and sometimes over-sell), so let's just drop it. I like a good debate as much as the next smark but sometimes it seems like the puro guys just come in here to troll. I never see any WWF marks trying to stir the pot in the puro folder. And when I say "puro pricks"...let me make it clear that I have nothing against puro. I love puro, I just happen to favor North American wrestling. It's the puro elitist fanboys that drive me fucking insane. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted December 4, 2003 People just like to nit-pick. There's always someone who goes against the herd. No matter how many people like something, there is always the opposite opinion. That's just the way it is. You have to try to ignore them, sometimes, when they get out of hand. Especially when their entire arguement is illogical. Not saying that's the way it is in this case, just noting as a blanket statement that it has happened in the past. Shawn Michaels has wrestled the same was for at least the last six years. Then, all of a sudden, out of the fucking blue, people decide that his "kip-up" (which used to make everyone mark) is "too unrealistic." It's horseshit. This isn't fucking boxing. It's not like they are really fighting out there! You have to be able to suspend belief, not say shit like "he shouldn't be able to get irish whipped now!" or "he used the wrong arm to clothesline!" Just because someone gets a body part worked over, doesn't mean that they become left-handed. Some of that stuff is instinct. When HBK got to the back, do you think that Vince said "Good match Shawn, but we could've used less kip-up." Doubtful. That's part of the reason why the IWC is always referred to as geeks, and mama's boys and what not. That's why people in the business always use the excuse about not having personal experience. It's because it's true! Look at this fucking post. People bitching about a goddamn kip-up! "It blew the match story." WHO GIVES A FUCK!? Can't you just watch the match and enjoy the match, or do you actually watch the match thinking "Ok, he got kicked in the leg, if he uses that leg again, this match sucks!" Quit reading fucking dirtsheets. End of conversation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Silly Douchebag Report post Posted December 4, 2003 There's no way Vince said that because Shawn just tore down the Nassau Coliseum, and in the end that's all that matters. At least to the REAL fans of professional wrestling...not the ones who get off on throwign around what they perceive to be their expert knowledge of the business. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BionicRedneck Report post Posted December 4, 2003 When HBK got to the back, do you think that Vince said "Good match Shawn, but we could've used less kip-up." Doubtful. Yeah, and just like a Porn director wouldn't say to the slut he is directing "Nice tits, but you're not a very good actress". But, it don't make it good acting. Should we all view wrestling the same way Vince McMahon does? Are we all supposed to enjoy the same things WWE marks do? Great! I'll send off for the "Best of Ahmed Johnson" right now. like a good debate as much as the next smark but sometimes it seems like the puro guys just come in here to troll. I never see any WWF marks trying to stir the pot in the puro folder Except it was a WWE fan who brought Puro up, and then (as Rudo pointed out) the puro fans pretty much shrugged it off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Silly Douchebag Report post Posted December 4, 2003 Are we all supposed to enjoy the same things WWE marks do? Well...you are in OUR folder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tawren 0 Report post Posted December 4, 2003 Are we all supposed to enjoy the same things WWE marks do? Well...you are in OUR folder. So you have to like WWE to post in here? That leaves...you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Silly Douchebag Report post Posted December 4, 2003 So you have to like WWE to post in here? It would help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BionicRedneck Report post Posted December 4, 2003 Well...you are in OUR folder. No, you see when I said WWE marks, that's exactly what I meant. The people who are MARKS. Not "smart" fans who enjoy WWE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted December 4, 2003 EDIT: N/M I can't stand the arguement. It's stupid, and no one ever budges. A bunch of thick-headed monkeys we are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Silly Douchebag Report post Posted December 4, 2003 Lots of "smart" WWF fans enjoyed the hell out of that match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jack_Bauer 0 Report post Posted December 4, 2003 HHH is involved in a good one on one match where he gets a lot of the offense, so instantly, people will nitpick over the match. I can watch that match over and over again, and not give a shit about mistakes. I didn't watch it to criticise, I watched it to be entertained and the match entertained me greatly. Is it honestly so wrong to mark out for a match that SHOULD be remembered as a great match ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BionicRedneck Report post Posted December 4, 2003 Lots of "smart" WWF fans enjoyed the hell out of that match. Maybe. What's that got to do with what I asked? I said "Are we all supposed to enjoy the same things WWE marks do?". HHH is involved in a good one on one match where he gets a lot of the offense, so instantly, people will nitpick over the match. I can watch that match over and over again, and not give a shit about mistakes. I didn't watch it to criticise, I watched it to be entertained and the match entertained me greatly. Is it honestly so wrong to mark out for a match that SHOULD be remembered as a great match ? No. But is it wrong for people who didn't enjoy it to have their say? I guess so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Silly Douchebag Report post Posted December 4, 2003 I think that it was a great match, I think that the selling was just fine (based on how Shawn sold at WrestleMania XIV when his pain was legitimate)...and I think that HHH sucks and was carried by the ring psychology master that is HBK. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BionicRedneck Report post Posted December 4, 2003 I think that it was a great match, I think that the selling was just fine (based on how Shawn sold at WrestleMania XIV when his pain was legitimate)...and I think that HHH sucks and was carried by the ring psychology master that is HBK. So you've said. But, I'd just like to know, how was HHH carried by Shawn? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Silly Douchebag Report post Posted December 4, 2003 I said "Are we all supposed to enjoy the same things WWE marks do?". I don't care if you didn't like the match, but you don't have to troll. IF you don't enjoy WWF - which you clearly don't - then why even post in this folder? Why not stick to the wrestling that you like? For the most part, this folder is for people who are lifelong, die-hard WWF fans but have problems here and there with the current product. You are a troll. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jack_Bauer 0 Report post Posted December 4, 2003 I think that it was a great match, I think that the selling was just fine (based on how Shawn sold at WrestleMania XIV when his pain was legitimate)...and I think that HHH sucks and was carried by the ring psychology master that is HBK. OK, I don't like Triple H, but HBK did NOT carry that whole match. Triple H worked hard for his best buddy and a good match came as a result. It was both men's doing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Silly Douchebag Report post Posted December 4, 2003 But, I'd just like to know, how was HHH carried by Shawn? HHH pretty much just played catch for HBK. Shawn was leading the dance. That, and Shawn's selling of his back (!) was really good leading up to his adrenaline rush and the superman comeback...I was cringing every time HHH did something to his back, based on the way that Shawn sold it. It was great, great selling. Plus, Shawn supplied all of the heat for that match...the fans were eating up everything that he did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted December 4, 2003 You obviously have no idea what a troll is. BionicRedneck is not one. You must HATE RavishingRickRudo then. Here's how I see it: Did Shawn no-sell the back work? Yep. But you know what? Who cares? It didn't kill my enjoyment of the match at all. It was a perfectly booked match that played to both guy's strengths- and I enjoyed it because of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jack_Bauer 0 Report post Posted December 4, 2003 Remember who was doing the moves most of the time. Remember the fact that the fans were going nuts for Triple H DOING Side Slams onto chairs. They were going nuts when Triple HIT HBK with chairs and things. As I say, it took two men to pace and get that match right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted December 4, 2003 I said "Are we all supposed to enjoy the same things WWE marks do?". I don't care if you didn't like the match, but you don't have to troll. IF you don't enjoy WWF - which you clearly don't - then why even post in this folder? Why not stick to the wrestling that you like? For the most part, this folder is for people who are lifelong, die-hard WWF fans but have problems here and there with the current product. You are a troll. Is this a PBP that I am just not recognizing, coming back as a gimmick poster? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tawren 0 Report post Posted December 4, 2003 I said "Are we all supposed to enjoy the same things WWE marks do?". I don't care if you didn't like the match, but you don't have to troll. IF you don't enjoy WWF - which you clearly don't - then why even post in this folder? Why not stick to the wrestling that you like? For the most part, this folder is for people who are lifelong, die-hard WWF fans but have problems here and there with the current product. You are a troll. Um...no. This thread is for discussion of WWE. What are we doing? Discussing a match that was in WWE. And BionicRedneck is NOT a troll. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Silly Douchebag Report post Posted December 4, 2003 Uh, yeah. I have been previously known as "Smarkzone", "RollingSambos", and "LexLugARRR"...and probably a couple that I am forgetting. I don't know why they ban me because the worst thing that I ever do is rank on Booker T...and I've been behaving myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BionicRedneck Report post Posted December 4, 2003 I don't care if you didn't like the match, but you don't have to troll. IF you don't enjoy WWF - which you clearly don't - then why even post in this folder? Why not stick to the wrestling that you like? For the most part, this folder is for people who are lifelong, die-hard WWF fans but have problems here and there with the current product. You are a troll. You are a fucking retard who can't answer as simple question. And the reason you can't answer it, is because you are just spouting off the first piece of shit that comes into your head, and you have no idea what you are talking about. It was great, great selling awww...fuck this... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted December 4, 2003 Oh well that was easy. Smarkzone is the one who said HBK v. HHH should've been ******. (No- not a misprint) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Silly Douchebag Report post Posted December 4, 2003 ***** based on drama, entertainment, emotion...I realize that if you take that away, it wasn't *****. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jack_Bauer 0 Report post Posted December 4, 2003 awww...fuck this... I know I said I liked the match, but I'm with you on this one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Silly Douchebag Report post Posted December 4, 2003 Back to the Far East with you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
